Pilots License vs. Diploma vs. Degree
 

I have always wondered why a commercial license/instructors rating/airline transport license is not granted the same recognition as tertiary qualifications such as degrees and diplomas.

Whenever you fill out any formal application for finance etc, if you are a professional pilot, your highest level of education would be the last standard you passed in high school eg Matric or Std 9.

This is of course a huge insult to me as a professional pilot because I believe I worked very hard to achieve my pilot qualification (as an aside I also have an undergraduate degree and am able to compare work loads etc and by the time you have your ATP I reckon you will have put some serious studying hours in, equaling or nearly equaling a 3-year degree, at the very least a 2-year technical diploma with practical work experience giving you your third year) and I believe my qualification should be recognised.

Is this phenomenon specific to South Africa or is it a global issue?:ugh:

The reason might be because pilots can't spell. "Licence" isn't spelt "lisence"! How many folk out there know the difference between "licence" and "license"?

Generally, pilots' spelling is atrocious, and its sometimes embarrassing. I try to use a dictionary if I'm not sure of a spelling when posting (which is quite often!).


Fluffyfan, no offense, but I think you should check out the difference between "there", and "their".

Someone told me the other day that the SA Education Department have recognised a SA ATP licence the equivalent of a Honours Degree. JB, I do agree with that you are saying.

hmm:

It is global but it is not an issue.
Just fill in any form that requires your higher educational qualifications thus:

BA/BSc. (ATPL/Aviation.)

In my case I have always continued in this vein:

BA/BSc equiv. (ATPL/Aviation.) UK.USA.RSA. Botswana)
or, if you feel suitably grandiose, make it an MA/MSc!

Never had a query on it and would defend my right to do so so quite vigorously.

Most of the people who read those forms are unable to interpolate beyond a two syllable word anyway.:D

the rane in spaine is manely on the pleine!!!!!

Gyro Nut, would it not be a better idea to use spell check than pull out a dictionary, who uses those things these days???:ugh:

...Those of us who spell flavour with a "U"...:E

As they say in the classics "six munch ago I coerren even spel enjineer now I are wun!"

No offense ment. Their you go agian.

By the bye, how does one use a dictionarey if you can't spell anyway??

Bye. Off to buy the latest from Mr. Oxford, that erudite man of letters. French, you know. :E

Thats why everything is abbreviated ATC, IFR, RWY, VOR.... There is usually a list of abbreviation at the beginning of AIP's or Jepp Charts. :cool:

SAASFO,
Whoever you are? You're a genius!!!!
I was just thinking of that. Nice one!!:ok:

Nah!


Pilots are just a bunch of glorified bus drivers in any case....:E

Digree vs Diploma
 

Hey JB,

Why not join the mass exidus from your beluvit cuntree and move to ostralia.

Seems their is a digree offered by Australian International Aviation Training Agency.

Cheque out there websight : http://www.australianaviationtrainin...on_degrees.htm

:hmm:
Pilots parading as glorified bus drivers? Surely that can hardly be the case! A gross example of wishful social climbing, worthy of the most un-noteworthy element of urban insignificance.
Any casual examination of pilots' external appearance at South African airfields will reveal that Putco bus drivers look smarter. Intellectually they probably are as well!:p

C or S
 

Mr W, the font of all knowledge quotes:

"A license (also spelled licence) is the document demonstrating that permission. ... Obtaining a licence is required of a number of occupations and "blah blah blah...


So their we are there then.

windy

Ozzie
 

Thanks Yokeman, but I reckon there will be too much competition for jobs in Oz what with all the SAA guys going over there...their....they're....thar...had you going Gyro Nut, actually do know the correct spelling to this one; there now (just kidding guys, really do feel for you at SAA, hope you all come right with the powers that be and that you all get back the job security you have worked hard to achieve and deserve IMHO)

The thread was started not so much because I yearn for recognition of what I have achieved, I am comfortable with myself, but rather, if the economy as a whole does not recognise professional flight crew as such ie professionals with professional qualifications, then is it any wonder we get shafted when it comes to salaries etc?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but ours is one of the few professions which carries a potential jail sentence if we are negligent in the fulfilment of our duties. That requires the highest possible standards from all of us at all times.

The reason an ATPL is not recognised as the equal of a degree is because it is no where near the level or close to the amount of work needed to achieve a degree.

6 months studying parrot fashion to pass a set of multiple guess type questions, and you think that equals 3 or 4 years worth of work with essays and dissertations?

Get real people, it is considered as a professional position only because in the old days only wealthy people, who had normally been educated to a 'professional' standard could afford to undertake the training.

Doctors who have a practical job with theory at its base, similar to pilots I think, study for 7 years and call themselves professionals, not sure our training practically or academically really compares to theirs.

What South Coast said.
While it would be nice to be recognised as having a higher qualification by financial intitutions etc, comparing a CPL to a degree, and an ATP to something like a Masters, is only valid when it comes to (sometimes) the amount of time it takes. A relative recently obtained a Masters in Project Management. It was only part time, and took two years. The amount of work involved made studying for Comm/ATP look absolutely trivial. I know in flying that building the hours takes time, but it's hardly comparable to putting in the research for a thesis (for example), which at that level is generally a hell of a lot of work.

I suppose we're like artisans/tradesmen. Something like that.

I agree with south coast (hope all's well with you! long time no see)

I have a BSc which I spent three hard years studying for, culminating in numerous very tough three hour written examinations to test not only knowledge but ability to reason and show original thought.

I also have a South African ATPL which took eight weeks of study to pass eight very straightforward Comm exams, followed later by six weeks of very part time study to pass seven even more straightforward ATP exams. The fact that only six weeks were required for the ATP was that Met only took a long evening.

14 weeks equivalent to a degree? Maybe in the new South Africa; nowhere else.

Degree vs.diplomas
 

Pilots parading as glorified bus drivers? Surgeons parading as butchers....

Postmen parading as:

Postman Pat, postman Pat,Postman Pat and his black & white cat...early in the morning.....:hmm:

So what's the issue guys. I have been putting down matric as highest education qualification and ATPL as other qualifications for the last 26 years and never had a problem or been turned down for anything I might have applied for. Be proud of your "meagre" ATPL or SAAF wings, not everyone can achieve those accomplishments either. A fair number of my colleagues at school that went off and got various degrees have not exactly ended up as success stories or as well off as myself, but yes they can all fill in bank applications and whatever else with a degree in the right box.