ATP Groundschool
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ATP Groundschool
Anyone out there know when , where and by whom any ATP groundschool courses are offered this year still ?
Like FTC, 43, etc
Does Avex hold groundschools?
Like FTC, 43, etc
Does Avex hold groundschools?
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gee...thanks guys, guess I'l have to answer my own question then.
43 is only holding ATP Groundschool for the lucky few individuals in the BA/Comair cadet scheme. No outsiders welcome
Avex....selfstudy only.
Aeronav...sounds very smug and reckons the owners of their notes dont need a groundschool. ha
FTC...does groundschool, with their notes obviously, night classes on the 30 June and the 13 October, running for 7 weeks, and accomodation available.
CFA....didnt know about them, but they do hold ATP groundschool, with their own note obviously and ask a whopping R6000-00 for the course. Date is 21 July for the next course.
43 is only holding ATP Groundschool for the lucky few individuals in the BA/Comair cadet scheme. No outsiders welcome
Avex....selfstudy only.
Aeronav...sounds very smug and reckons the owners of their notes dont need a groundschool. ha
FTC...does groundschool, with their notes obviously, night classes on the 30 June and the 13 October, running for 7 weeks, and accomodation available.
CFA....didnt know about them, but they do hold ATP groundschool, with their own note obviously and ask a whopping R6000-00 for the course. Date is 21 July for the next course.
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Howzit,
Dont touch FTC with a barge pole they are cowboys. You will end up paying more than you bargained for or paying a lwayer to sort them out.
Fear not though as it's not personal they promise things they don't have and more than they can give to everyone not just you
43 Air v.busy bit of a sausage machine by all accounts.
CFA good notes well taught and friendly puts you well placed to sit COM or ATP exams in Pretoria online exam centre too. Always a bonus.
Dont touch FTC with a barge pole they are cowboys. You will end up paying more than you bargained for or paying a lwayer to sort them out.
Fear not though as it's not personal they promise things they don't have and more than they can give to everyone not just you
43 Air v.busy bit of a sausage machine by all accounts.
CFA good notes well taught and friendly puts you well placed to sit COM or ATP exams in Pretoria online exam centre too. Always a bonus.
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Skaz
Do it in your own time, the exams really aren't rocket science and just build on the com exams. I would reckon that there is about 20-30% more subject matter than in the commercial exams BUT they are a whole lot easier. Easier because so much of the subject matter makes sense after having flown commercially for a while. I am sure you remember studying all about the VOR and ILS for the com exam? Well, the same old questions come up again but you have been using them in the real world for a while now and it makes it so much easier.
Many of the papers, such as Met, Radio Aids and Instruments have very little more in them than at com level. Plotting is pretty much the same, easier if anything because it is more or less exactly like the com, and that is already hidden away in your grey matter. Navigation just takes a long time because there is a lot there to revise from the past and then quite a bit more extra. Flight Planning - a doddle (almost!), just use an overhead projector flimsy template for the graph questions. And Aircraft Technical, well it's not rocket science - just jet science plus a lot of questions that you won't have ever come across in this life and won't in the next. There are old favourites here like 'use of windscreen heat .........yes, for bird strike!' and 'which of the three windscreen layers gives it structural strength.....' 'why is the hydraulic fluid reservoir pressurised?' and so on. Just ask as many people as possible what b*****d questions they got, and this, coupled with post com flying experience and common sense will get you through no trouble.
I see you asked about which notes to use on another thread. Avex - no question about it. If Aeronav reckon you can get through just on theirs.........whey, a pink pig just flew past my window - and 'pink pig' is probably one of their 'right answers' which is 'wrong'. Anyone who has used Aeronav notes will know what I mean. And FTC....I have been listening to someone for the last week moaning to me about the fact that they wished they had never started using them (seems they are designed to go along with the groundschool and the 'home study set' don't quite fill in the gaps.) Since they are on contract I can't lend them my set of Avex notes right now, but they have begged me to lend them as soon as I get back. Oh yes, and two friends who started with the Aeronav set have just pitched in together and shared the cost of an Avex set. Says something.
So, how can I back this up? Well, I got the lot first time with over 90% average across all the papers using Avex. Avex prepares you well (with the exception of the b*****d questions in Aircraft Technical) as long as you put in the HOURS, do all the questions, and do the ones you got wrong again, and again. Nothing's perfect in life but if you put in the hours using the Avex notes (and scrounge any extra questions you can get elsewhere - but not from Aeronav), then you'll get through no problem.
Rather like the com exams, they are just a f**cko filter at the end of the day.
Good luck!!
Do it in your own time, the exams really aren't rocket science and just build on the com exams. I would reckon that there is about 20-30% more subject matter than in the commercial exams BUT they are a whole lot easier. Easier because so much of the subject matter makes sense after having flown commercially for a while. I am sure you remember studying all about the VOR and ILS for the com exam? Well, the same old questions come up again but you have been using them in the real world for a while now and it makes it so much easier.
Many of the papers, such as Met, Radio Aids and Instruments have very little more in them than at com level. Plotting is pretty much the same, easier if anything because it is more or less exactly like the com, and that is already hidden away in your grey matter. Navigation just takes a long time because there is a lot there to revise from the past and then quite a bit more extra. Flight Planning - a doddle (almost!), just use an overhead projector flimsy template for the graph questions. And Aircraft Technical, well it's not rocket science - just jet science plus a lot of questions that you won't have ever come across in this life and won't in the next. There are old favourites here like 'use of windscreen heat .........yes, for bird strike!' and 'which of the three windscreen layers gives it structural strength.....' 'why is the hydraulic fluid reservoir pressurised?' and so on. Just ask as many people as possible what b*****d questions they got, and this, coupled with post com flying experience and common sense will get you through no trouble.
I see you asked about which notes to use on another thread. Avex - no question about it. If Aeronav reckon you can get through just on theirs.........whey, a pink pig just flew past my window - and 'pink pig' is probably one of their 'right answers' which is 'wrong'. Anyone who has used Aeronav notes will know what I mean. And FTC....I have been listening to someone for the last week moaning to me about the fact that they wished they had never started using them (seems they are designed to go along with the groundschool and the 'home study set' don't quite fill in the gaps.) Since they are on contract I can't lend them my set of Avex notes right now, but they have begged me to lend them as soon as I get back. Oh yes, and two friends who started with the Aeronav set have just pitched in together and shared the cost of an Avex set. Says something.
So, how can I back this up? Well, I got the lot first time with over 90% average across all the papers using Avex. Avex prepares you well (with the exception of the b*****d questions in Aircraft Technical) as long as you put in the HOURS, do all the questions, and do the ones you got wrong again, and again. Nothing's perfect in life but if you put in the hours using the Avex notes (and scrounge any extra questions you can get elsewhere - but not from Aeronav), then you'll get through no problem.
Rather like the com exams, they are just a f**cko filter at the end of the day.
Good luck!!
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thanks for the replies, methinks I shall attend CFA g/s soon
G thanks for the gen, started with both avex and ftc notes, but too many mistakes and errors and I'm too lazy and too short tempered to wade throug the cr*p
cheers
G thanks for the gen, started with both avex and ftc notes, but too many mistakes and errors and I'm too lazy and too short tempered to wade throug the cr*p
cheers
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right you lot, we are in the process of organizing an ATPL groundschool in Windhoek, anybody interested in attending , PM me.
Dont have much details yet, but will be soon hopefully, evenings, and not too bloody expensive!
Dont have much details yet, but will be soon hopefully, evenings, and not too bloody expensive!
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ATPL in SA
Skaz, I have been at FTC recently to finish my PPL and they are a really good school. The instructors are very good and the CFI used to work at the CAA so the standard is pretty high. Also with new planes etc, not a bad place to be.
On the ATPL don't know too much. I am considering doing my CPL so have looked into it. I do know that FTC does both the JAR and ICAO ATPL courses. Also FTC's own notes are being accepted for JAR school, so they are pretty highly rated!
Definitely worth giving them a shout. Obviously, passing the flying and groundschool exams is down to the students (and some like the Vortex person perhaps blame others for their failings), but if you are going to pass, FTC is the place where you'll probably do it.
On the CPL side, apparently the CPL ground school is now running continuously so one can start any Monday and finish 5 weeks later. So don't have to choose between a couple of dates which is good...
Hope this helps!
On the ATPL don't know too much. I am considering doing my CPL so have looked into it. I do know that FTC does both the JAR and ICAO ATPL courses. Also FTC's own notes are being accepted for JAR school, so they are pretty highly rated!
Definitely worth giving them a shout. Obviously, passing the flying and groundschool exams is down to the students (and some like the Vortex person perhaps blame others for their failings), but if you are going to pass, FTC is the place where you'll probably do it.
On the CPL side, apparently the CPL ground school is now running continuously so one can start any Monday and finish 5 weeks later. So don't have to choose between a couple of dates which is good...
Hope this helps!
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Edinburgh...a PPL is a far, far cry from an ATPL...! (aroooooooooooo!)
I found AVEX notes very good, and more importantly, RELIABLE.
The Met notes are especially good.
FTC notes are weak and worse, unreliable. You will find different versions of accounts on several things.
Sometimes there are no answers at all for question sets.
Soetimes the answers are wrong (ie. half of chapter 9's answers are in the answers for chapter 10).
Sometimes the answers are wrong (ie. (a) should be (b) )
Sometimes as many as 10 questions are duplicated in one question set!!!
The ATP notes have the same question sets in as the Comm notes, BUT the answers are different!
And.....strangely enough, in my notes (revision 04/2000), many many questions are identical to the AVEX questions.....
But don't let unreliability put you off, the CAA's database itself is pretty unreliable. In fact, if you study the FTC way, you might get these questions correct! As for instructors, there was an instructor at FTC instructing the ATP course, he didn't even have an ATP himself!
One I remember....Where, in a modern jet transport aircraft, are there smoke detectors instead of fire detectors ? (This after spending many a frustrating night learning the intracies of transonic aerodynamics)
a) in the cabin
b) in the hold
c) in the engines
I said a) .... WRONG! My mate said b).... WRONG! So now I'm on the lookout for some engines making a chirping noise...hmmmmn
I found AVEX notes very good, and more importantly, RELIABLE.
The Met notes are especially good.
FTC notes are weak and worse, unreliable. You will find different versions of accounts on several things.
Sometimes there are no answers at all for question sets.
Soetimes the answers are wrong (ie. half of chapter 9's answers are in the answers for chapter 10).
Sometimes the answers are wrong (ie. (a) should be (b) )
Sometimes as many as 10 questions are duplicated in one question set!!!
The ATP notes have the same question sets in as the Comm notes, BUT the answers are different!
And.....strangely enough, in my notes (revision 04/2000), many many questions are identical to the AVEX questions.....
But don't let unreliability put you off, the CAA's database itself is pretty unreliable. In fact, if you study the FTC way, you might get these questions correct! As for instructors, there was an instructor at FTC instructing the ATP course, he didn't even have an ATP himself!
One I remember....Where, in a modern jet transport aircraft, are there smoke detectors instead of fire detectors ? (This after spending many a frustrating night learning the intracies of transonic aerodynamics)
a) in the cabin
b) in the hold
c) in the engines
I said a) .... WRONG! My mate said b).... WRONG! So now I'm on the lookout for some engines making a chirping noise...hmmmmn
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ATPL Notes
Well, well, well. The typical load of half truths. lies and complete hogwash. Firstly, all the notes in this country are flawed to a greater or lesser extent. There is no perfect set. If there was we would all be using it wouldn't we?
One does not need to be an ATPL holder to teach on the course. Witness FTC's use of specialists for certain subjects, so lets put that lame observation in the bin.
The ability to teach and the knowledge to teach are prerequistes in any teaching environment. David Attenborough ain't no monkey but he knows a few things about them. Got the idea?!
Most of the notes are plaguarised versions of others that existed years before.
As too similarity of questions between differrent sets of notes; well that's easy. Most students are kind enough to give feedback to the school who taught them and therein lies the answer to that one.
To pass these exams you must work and supplement your learning with other sources ie other books and people who know and who work in aviation. I recommend the UK RAF AP 8168 series of books now available on the civilian market. Excellent for ATG.
If someone in South Africa were to produce a flawless, superbly set out, well written etc, etc, set of notes for the ATP exams that were regularly updated, they would cost much more than what is currently on the market. Would you buy it. What we have here does a pretty good job. Too many of you want champagne for beer money.
One does not need to be an ATPL holder to teach on the course. Witness FTC's use of specialists for certain subjects, so lets put that lame observation in the bin.
The ability to teach and the knowledge to teach are prerequistes in any teaching environment. David Attenborough ain't no monkey but he knows a few things about them. Got the idea?!
Most of the notes are plaguarised versions of others that existed years before.
As too similarity of questions between differrent sets of notes; well that's easy. Most students are kind enough to give feedback to the school who taught them and therein lies the answer to that one.
To pass these exams you must work and supplement your learning with other sources ie other books and people who know and who work in aviation. I recommend the UK RAF AP 8168 series of books now available on the civilian market. Excellent for ATG.
If someone in South Africa were to produce a flawless, superbly set out, well written etc, etc, set of notes for the ATP exams that were regularly updated, they would cost much more than what is currently on the market. Would you buy it. What we have here does a pretty good job. Too many of you want champagne for beer money.
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'half truths', 'lies', 'complete hogwash'.........'got the idea?!'
Bucket, who rattled your cage (again)?
You are a bitter man. I wonder why?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tokoloshe - great to hear from you!! Time has passed since wandering the streets of Kabul, lost, after curfew and a touch inebriated! I will send an e-mail.
Bucket, who rattled your cage (again)?
You are a bitter man. I wonder why?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tokoloshe - great to hear from you!! Time has passed since wandering the streets of Kabul, lost, after curfew and a touch inebriated! I will send an e-mail.
Gatvol
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Gerund Interesting post and a familiar style of writing.......hmmmm
Anyway for those of you who wish to upgrade an FAA rating, a good site to visit is www.gleim.com They have test questions on CDs. In the good old US of A its not what you know, its can you pass the test. Questions are usually multiple guess.
I should be headed over that way in a couple monhs if any need some material . I will be bringing over the latest FAR/AIM for a friend in the CAA.
Anyway for those of you who wish to upgrade an FAA rating, a good site to visit is www.gleim.com They have test questions on CDs. In the good old US of A its not what you know, its can you pass the test. Questions are usually multiple guess.
I should be headed over that way in a couple monhs if any need some material . I will be bringing over the latest FAR/AIM for a friend in the CAA.
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wow...didnt know I'll be sparking off a debate, anyway for those interested, ALTP groundschool hopefully starting soon in Windhoek, interested parties can PM me or email.
Will most probably be cheaper than other courses offered in Jhb etc, but good quality, by the looks of it.
Will most probably be cheaper than other courses offered in Jhb etc, but good quality, by the looks of it.
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Centre,
Hmm you don't sound like one of the gang much. If you actually check my post you will see that I did not at any point mention that I had failed anything. This will be because I didn't. So to what failings do you refer.
Having had a sample of what FTC could deliver. I decided, and firmly advise all others to follow suit, to go elsewhere.
I went elsewhere having passed my exams from start of revision to last exam in 3 weeks and two weeks later had a CPL multi IR.
So skaz, if you want to take the advice of a chap/chappess who comleted a PPL with FTC over the advice of the many professional pilots out there who have posted on this site then listen to centre. Centre that is, who at worst is one of the gang and at best spent a PPL course with blinkers on.
Even had the thread been about FTC as a whole then centre's comments would worry.
FTC is a true cowboy outfit. Further there is a lot more to getting ATPL/CPL than just the notes and FTC doesnt have the infrastructure, ability or inclination to do anything other than take your hard earned cash and let you assume the position once they have it.
I went elsewhere and succeeded with no help from them and no difficulty. I was presently surprised to find that there are many very good schools out there and that FTC wasn't representative.
Oh and the CFI has never worked for the UK CAA one of the directors did and she is the only reason that they managed to blag the JAA certification which will hopefully get pulled when the JAA investigation, that I and many other ripped off ex FTC studes gave evidence to in The Netherlands, is over.
Good luck in the search fellow avaitors but be safe stay away from FTC
Hmm you don't sound like one of the gang much. If you actually check my post you will see that I did not at any point mention that I had failed anything. This will be because I didn't. So to what failings do you refer.
Having had a sample of what FTC could deliver. I decided, and firmly advise all others to follow suit, to go elsewhere.
I went elsewhere having passed my exams from start of revision to last exam in 3 weeks and two weeks later had a CPL multi IR.
So skaz, if you want to take the advice of a chap/chappess who comleted a PPL with FTC over the advice of the many professional pilots out there who have posted on this site then listen to centre. Centre that is, who at worst is one of the gang and at best spent a PPL course with blinkers on.
Even had the thread been about FTC as a whole then centre's comments would worry.
FTC is a true cowboy outfit. Further there is a lot more to getting ATPL/CPL than just the notes and FTC doesnt have the infrastructure, ability or inclination to do anything other than take your hard earned cash and let you assume the position once they have it.
I went elsewhere and succeeded with no help from them and no difficulty. I was presently surprised to find that there are many very good schools out there and that FTC wasn't representative.
Oh and the CFI has never worked for the UK CAA one of the directors did and she is the only reason that they managed to blag the JAA certification which will hopefully get pulled when the JAA investigation, that I and many other ripped off ex FTC studes gave evidence to in The Netherlands, is over.
Good luck in the search fellow avaitors but be safe stay away from FTC
