Zu Bell 205 Flying Pax
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Question.Who lives in Cape Town,drives a red Bmw convertable,has red/white helicopters,red/white aeroplanes,has rented a groooot hangar and has a smaller one for rent and is knicknamed Clue-less.Oh yes and is also an a...eh.le
Rotorhead can you answer that one.
Francious.You still owe me a job.(You offered me one to spray for you and then you dissapeared).
The Huey is great for CT.
Rotorhead can you answer that one.
Francious.You still owe me a job.(You offered me one to spray for you and then you dissapeared).
The Huey is great for CT.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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aag ja , no wel fine ... as jy mag , dan mag jy 
Francious, I do not know when I'll be in Cpt, hopefully soon, but I will definately contact you. If Gunns and the other okes are there maybe we can have a lekker braai and some Amstel and Hunters and vastly exagerate our 'warstories'...........
"...so there I was , the left engine on fire, u/c stuck halfway out, 10 feet above the rwy....in IMC....inverted..."
Francious, I do not know when I'll be in Cpt, hopefully soon, but I will definately contact you. If Gunns and the other okes are there maybe we can have a lekker braai and some Amstel and Hunters and vastly exagerate our 'warstories'...........
"...so there I was , the left engine on fire, u/c stuck halfway out, 10 feet above the rwy....in IMC....inverted..."
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Mmmmmm, ten feet above the runway, one engine out and inverted in IMC? Ja right!!!! Sounds like the type of stories that could be told around a barbeque fire full of Klippies & Coke! Skaz, the idea of us all teaming up with Francois at Easter sounds like a splendid idea. You better warn him before hand how much booze he's gonna have to buy, coz rumour has it that you okes thrive on K & C, and I understand from reliable sources that you okes always fly pissed. The excuse? Ooohhh yes colonel, we fly much better when we are "gespuit"!!!!!! Heee Heeeee!!
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Hi Francois,
Here is the fransman from Pretoria.
Was here for 3 dyas from Mauritius and am going back tonight up to the 28th of Feb.
Will be nice to fly again this amazing huey.
Let me know if I can help you , it will be grate to work together for a whisle.
U can contact me on 092307756914 ( my cell in Mauritius )
or [email protected]
Am glad that my partner could help you with the insurance .
Let me know and GOOD LUCK 
Here is the fransman from Pretoria.
Was here for 3 dyas from Mauritius and am going back tonight up to the 28th of Feb.
Will be nice to fly again this amazing huey.
Let me know if I can help you , it will be grate to work together for a whisle.
U can contact me on 092307756914 ( my cell in Mauritius )
or [email protected]
Am glad that my partner could help you with the insurance .
Let me know and GOOD LUCK
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Tales of the Huey Xtremed!
Hi all
Well, what can I say? Yabba dabba doo! Sorry I couldn't post earlier, but I was out of town for the weekend.
Got a call on Friday 31 Jan, lunchtime, from the guys at Win wanting to know if I'm available to fly that afternoon. What a question, do fish swim, do birds fly?
So here it is guys, from someone who is not involved with any of the companies in the bun fight.
I met the crew at Helibase, Win's offices at Culemborg. The crew chief, Eddie de Jager (Chief Engineer?) was pre-flighting the Huey when I got there. Francois hopped into the right hand seat and Uncle Arthur assisting him in the left, I was shown into the jump seat.
Accompanied by Eddie and one other, we started up and flew to the Waterfront pad where the two rear pax got out and loaded the full load of 14 paying pax while still turning and burning. All the pax were wearing goggles and green mock 'combat vests'.
We then lifted off and headed out towards Milnerton and Blaauberg. The doors were kept in the open position and the pax were all belted in. The standard Waterfront helipad approach and departure routes were used.
The routing was the same as described by Francois in an earlier post. En route Francois would 'roll' the Huey a few degrees left and right, but to the pax at the back, particularly those seated on the edge, this is obviously greatly magnified and the screams above the roar of the engine and music confirmed they were getting their thrills!
Our average speed ranged between 70 and 80 knots, but we did get to a max of about 90 knots. Heights were between 200 and 500 ft, but lower when zooting around Blaauberg hill To any seasoned flyer, the flight did not even approach the limits of the airframe or engine, but to the tourist, particularly those sitting near the edge, it was, as one pax wrote, better than sex!
All too soon we were landing back at the Waterfront pad, after 30 minutes flight time, with a load of very happy passengers. After shut down, the pax were given suitable drinks and were presented with their Huey Xtreme membership certificates. They were then invited to sign the guest book. Every single comment in the book was favourable, except one experienced thrill seeker who said it was 'boring'.
The Huey was extremely stable, with plenty of power and all she wanted to do was fly. As mentioned before, the Huey is not equipped with flotation gear, but when over water, we were within autorotational distance of shore.
At my request, Francois took me into their passenger briefing area and showed me the briefing board and topics covered by the pre-flight briefing. It looked comprehensive and professional to me.
After further discussion with Francois, Uncle Arthur and staff, I had to leave as I was going away for the weekend, but I'll definately be back to visit again
After all, over 1 000 passengers can't be wrong
I took plenty of photos, so if anyone is interrested, I'll make a plan to upload them.
Guys, I had an absolutely awesome time and thank you!!!
Important note: I hold no brief for Francois or Win, I'm merely reporting on my experience and I would like to thank Francois and crew for their cooperation and openess.
Well, what can I say? Yabba dabba doo! Sorry I couldn't post earlier, but I was out of town for the weekend.
Got a call on Friday 31 Jan, lunchtime, from the guys at Win wanting to know if I'm available to fly that afternoon. What a question, do fish swim, do birds fly?
So here it is guys, from someone who is not involved with any of the companies in the bun fight.
I met the crew at Helibase, Win's offices at Culemborg. The crew chief, Eddie de Jager (Chief Engineer?) was pre-flighting the Huey when I got there. Francois hopped into the right hand seat and Uncle Arthur assisting him in the left, I was shown into the jump seat.
Accompanied by Eddie and one other, we started up and flew to the Waterfront pad where the two rear pax got out and loaded the full load of 14 paying pax while still turning and burning. All the pax were wearing goggles and green mock 'combat vests'.
We then lifted off and headed out towards Milnerton and Blaauberg. The doors were kept in the open position and the pax were all belted in. The standard Waterfront helipad approach and departure routes were used.
The routing was the same as described by Francois in an earlier post. En route Francois would 'roll' the Huey a few degrees left and right, but to the pax at the back, particularly those seated on the edge, this is obviously greatly magnified and the screams above the roar of the engine and music confirmed they were getting their thrills!
Our average speed ranged between 70 and 80 knots, but we did get to a max of about 90 knots. Heights were between 200 and 500 ft, but lower when zooting around Blaauberg hill
To any seasoned flyer, the flight did not even approach the limits of the airframe or engine, but to the tourist, particularly those sitting near the edge, it was, as one pax wrote, better than sex!All too soon we were landing back at the Waterfront pad, after 30 minutes flight time, with a load of very happy passengers. After shut down, the pax were given suitable drinks and were presented with their Huey Xtreme membership certificates. They were then invited to sign the guest book. Every single comment in the book was favourable, except one experienced thrill seeker who said it was 'boring'.
The Huey was extremely stable, with plenty of power and all she wanted to do was fly. As mentioned before, the Huey is not equipped with flotation gear, but when over water, we were within autorotational distance of shore.
At my request, Francois took me into their passenger briefing area and showed me the briefing board and topics covered by the pre-flight briefing. It looked comprehensive and professional to me.
After further discussion with Francois, Uncle Arthur and staff, I had to leave as I was going away for the weekend, but I'll definately be back to visit again
After all, over 1 000 passengers can't be wrong
I took plenty of photos, so if anyone is interrested, I'll make a plan to upload them.
Guys, I had an absolutely awesome time and thank you!!!
Important note: I hold no brief for Francois or Win, I'm merely reporting on my experience and I would like to thank Francois and crew for their cooperation and openess.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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zu bell 205 Flying Pax
Admittedly it has taken far too long for me to surf this site, or register as a fledgling member. After being advised to have a look, I spent the better part of Sunday going through the various threads.This has definately been the "hot topic" of aviation in the Cape Town Area.
Although this forum is a fantastic medium for airing certain opinions, I must say from the onset that I am rather disappointed with the lynch mob mentallity displayed by some of the so called professionals. In my opinion the only exclusion to this forum ,and to our industry as a whole should be any form of indifference. I hope we will always encourage objectionability and accountability at all levels of our industry, provided it is done constructivelly ,and doesn't degenerate into personal vendetta's ,mud slinging or threats.
By way of introduction I am the Operations Manager / Chief Pilot at Civair Helicopters at the V & A Waterfront. I have been with the company for just on four years and have worked closely with the well respected ex Managing Director James Blomerus.
I have a lot of pride in the culture that Civiar Helicopters has adopted over my term with them. It is a culture that respects the industry for the high risk that it is, as well as a culture that respects the Laws governing us. As long a I am associated with the Helicopter division, it will continue to operate in a professional fashion, within the bounds of the law, and hopefully in good and fair competition with our competitors.
After reading through the threads, it is quite clear that we have been branded as hypocritical and anti competitive.This as a result of our objection to the use of the Huey 205. More on the so called hypocrisy later, but let's tackle the competitive bit first.
There are four operators at the Waterfront at present ,and as long as I have known always been more than one operator at any particular time. I speak from experience when I say that in spite of being in close proximity to one another, the spirit has always been collectively good. There is and always will be more than enough work to go around, and I hope and pray we all continue to share in the spoils. This is very unlike Gary van Der Merwe's approach , who has told many of us that he aspires to close us all down.
Allegations that Civair have lost so much business due to Winn and other competitors is absolute rubbish. We have reached over and above our targets over the last five months and continue to grow like everyone else. There is no place for a monopoly in our industry, and good competion keep us all on our toes, and the ultimate result shoud be a safer flying environment for us all.
Winn has been a party to this competitive environment for the last two years, without any resistance to their mode of operation. That was untill the arrival of their Huey 205 operating under the Huey Extreme Club banner.
Now Francois will have you all believe that the objection lies only with the other three operators at the Waterfront. The truth is that a meeting was held with every other helicopter operator in the Cape Town area, and all apart from CHC (who are in legal proceedings with Gary van der Merwe already, and felt their involvement might jeopordize this) are signatories to a formal concern lodged with the Civil Aviation Authorities. As an industry and not as sole competitors to Winn, we have legitimate concern and queries that we have every right to lodge in a constructive fashion. Although Roterhead has taken a good old fashion slating of late, he is not alone in many of his sentiments, that are shared by numerous pilots and operators monitoring the Huey situation closely.
Unfortunately the situation has degenerated into a mudslinging match, and temperatures have soared for a number of reasons:
The allegations that private pilots have been flying out of Winn is spot on! We as qualified profesionals have all sat and watched while walk in tourists are loaded up by Private Pilots, under the so called "hire & fly" banner and flown around the peninsula. This long before the Huey even arrived at the Waterfront. Until recently the Huey too was flown by Private Pilots only, as a complete crew. This has recently been rectified.
Congratulations to Carni Matisson for finally getting a commercial validation based on his Swazi commercial licence. This i believe all happened within the last two weeks. I would however like to know which license he was flying under ,when he flew all day on New Years day. Maybe Francios can clear this one up for us?
Francois names some well respected and highly qualified pilots, in garnering support for the Huey operation. The fact of the matter is that Gerry is well within his rights to convert any pilot on the Huey, Slade did help out for a short period over the festive season, and Arthur has only recently joined their operation. All of these highly qualified men as mentioned, including any qualified pilot (comm or ppl) can and will jump at the oppurtunity to fly this Huey 205. Who wouldnt? This is all possible because Gary has a valid experimental certificate of airworthiness, which allows the aircraft to fly.
As professionals, pilots and warbird enthusiasts we have the knowledge and insight into the aircraft and the associted risk of flying it. Now enter the not so well informed tourist / paying passenger who you find in their droves at the Waterfront in Cape Town. Their only interest a helicopter flight, be it in a Jet Ranger or Huey, most of them would not know the difference between the two. What matters to them only is price, and they certainly aren't aware of the implications or legalities of any Club Membership. What your average tourist would rely on however ,is that any aircraft be operated in accordance with Licensing Regulation in the interests of their safety.
I have to agree however, that a Grey Area exists wrt other clubs eg. Harvard Club, Thunder City. I think the crux primarilly lies with the fact that in these cases, you trully are dealing with your true aircraft enthusiast and not hundreds of ill informed tourists.
The fact of the matter is that right now Winn have a special experimental certificate of airworthiness to fly the Huey. This is a special dispensation under Part 21 of the Civil Aviation Requlations, which specifically disallows any commercial use of this helicopter on this certificate. The Huey is also a Military Version of the Bell 205 and cannot, in terms of ICAO, be allowed to operate under part 21.
Enter the Huey Extreme Club! By virtue of the club this apparently no longer constitutes a commercial operation. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a commercial operation, and by operating the system on a club basis, in terms of which passengers become members of the club, it is nothing but passanger transport in disguise. I don't believe that this is in the true spirit of the Law, and know for a fact that Civil Aviation did not intend this Experimental Airworthiness Certificate to constitute the flying of pax.
Maybe Francois could explain to me why ,when an associate paid and flew with Gary van der Merwe( and a commercial but unrated pilot on this particular flight), on the Huey recently, the detail on his credit card slip indicated Winn Sea Plane and Helicopter Charters and not the Huey Extreme Club? Surely this money should be directed to the club and not straight into the charter company?
The infamous Part 96, governing the commercial use of non type certified aircraft has not been promulgated yet. This might happen withing the next few months, and I asure you that the guidelines governing this Part will be strictly governed by the Civil Aviation Authorities. If and when Francois gets a valid license under Part 96 or Part 127 as he enthusuastically states,then I assure you that I will be the first person to put my hat in my hand and beg for a club membership. Until then, how about a truly professional attitude to respecting the Authorities and Licensing Laws, however flawed they might appear to be.
Let me just add that the Huey Operation in no way reflects on the Winn Helicopter Charter Operation. Where the Helicopter Operation lacked management and direction in the past, Francois has done a fantastic job in putting Winn on the map with some awesome systems. Having someone with Arthurs experience can only pay huge devidends as well. If the same approach was shown to the Huey operation, I have no doubt there wouldn't be any outcry from the industry.
Which finally brings me to the point where I defend some allegations directed at Civair Helicopters by Francios. May I just add that Personal Agendas reflected towards the present owner of Civair, should not reflect poorly on the many profesionals under his employment who are passionate, and very serious about this fantastic industry.
The primary allegation is the absence of floatation gear on some of our aircraft. Francois correctly pointed out that three of our aircraft do not have floatation gear. However if Francois took a closer look at the Aviation LLaw governing flights over water, he will notice that the Law makes provision for take offs and departures, as well as landings and approaches over water. Here floatation gear is not required for these phases of flight. I assume due to their short duration, and the nature of many landing zones that are similar in nature to the Waterfront.
However where the intended purpose of the flight at hand is to be conducted over water ,and the aircraft might find itself outside of authoritative distance from land (read autorotative), then all the requirements pertaining to floatation gear, life jackets, dinghies and ground communication does apply. Civair have always complied with these requirements and have often turned away work to our competitors, when any of our two float equipped aircraft are unavailable.
Furthermore Francois, the Noise Abatement Charter has nothing to do with the issue of floatation gear or life vests. Through our compliance with the Noise Abatement Charter, at 2500'-3000' ASL sea level, we place ourselves within autorotational distance from land, and therefore don't require floatation gear on all our aircraft. That is when it comes to general flights around the Peninsula.
Most of the Huey 205 flight is conducted over the ocean (primarily during routing) and untill recently, was flown too low and too far out to constitute a safe autorotation to the shoreline. I must acknowledge that this has been rectified recently.
Finally I will add that although this is a rumour network, threats and allegations under an alias serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. It would seem that only a very few are prepared to address issues under their professional namesakes. The damage that can be done through suspicion and incorrect association can be career threatening.
As for me I place my faith in constructive criticism and the relevant authorities and I trully hope that in the mean time,we can all work in competitive peace with each other.
Any direct queries please feel free to e-mail me on [email protected]. Any queries regarding the licensing issue's brought up, contact Thinus van Jaarsveld, head of Helicopter Operations SACAA.
Although this forum is a fantastic medium for airing certain opinions, I must say from the onset that I am rather disappointed with the lynch mob mentallity displayed by some of the so called professionals. In my opinion the only exclusion to this forum ,and to our industry as a whole should be any form of indifference. I hope we will always encourage objectionability and accountability at all levels of our industry, provided it is done constructivelly ,and doesn't degenerate into personal vendetta's ,mud slinging or threats.
By way of introduction I am the Operations Manager / Chief Pilot at Civair Helicopters at the V & A Waterfront. I have been with the company for just on four years and have worked closely with the well respected ex Managing Director James Blomerus.
I have a lot of pride in the culture that Civiar Helicopters has adopted over my term with them. It is a culture that respects the industry for the high risk that it is, as well as a culture that respects the Laws governing us. As long a I am associated with the Helicopter division, it will continue to operate in a professional fashion, within the bounds of the law, and hopefully in good and fair competition with our competitors.
After reading through the threads, it is quite clear that we have been branded as hypocritical and anti competitive.This as a result of our objection to the use of the Huey 205. More on the so called hypocrisy later, but let's tackle the competitive bit first.
There are four operators at the Waterfront at present ,and as long as I have known always been more than one operator at any particular time. I speak from experience when I say that in spite of being in close proximity to one another, the spirit has always been collectively good. There is and always will be more than enough work to go around, and I hope and pray we all continue to share in the spoils. This is very unlike Gary van Der Merwe's approach , who has told many of us that he aspires to close us all down.
Allegations that Civair have lost so much business due to Winn and other competitors is absolute rubbish. We have reached over and above our targets over the last five months and continue to grow like everyone else. There is no place for a monopoly in our industry, and good competion keep us all on our toes, and the ultimate result shoud be a safer flying environment for us all.
Winn has been a party to this competitive environment for the last two years, without any resistance to their mode of operation. That was untill the arrival of their Huey 205 operating under the Huey Extreme Club banner.
Now Francois will have you all believe that the objection lies only with the other three operators at the Waterfront. The truth is that a meeting was held with every other helicopter operator in the Cape Town area, and all apart from CHC (who are in legal proceedings with Gary van der Merwe already, and felt their involvement might jeopordize this) are signatories to a formal concern lodged with the Civil Aviation Authorities. As an industry and not as sole competitors to Winn, we have legitimate concern and queries that we have every right to lodge in a constructive fashion. Although Roterhead has taken a good old fashion slating of late, he is not alone in many of his sentiments, that are shared by numerous pilots and operators monitoring the Huey situation closely.
Unfortunately the situation has degenerated into a mudslinging match, and temperatures have soared for a number of reasons:
The allegations that private pilots have been flying out of Winn is spot on! We as qualified profesionals have all sat and watched while walk in tourists are loaded up by Private Pilots, under the so called "hire & fly" banner and flown around the peninsula. This long before the Huey even arrived at the Waterfront. Until recently the Huey too was flown by Private Pilots only, as a complete crew. This has recently been rectified.
Congratulations to Carni Matisson for finally getting a commercial validation based on his Swazi commercial licence. This i believe all happened within the last two weeks. I would however like to know which license he was flying under ,when he flew all day on New Years day. Maybe Francios can clear this one up for us?
Francois names some well respected and highly qualified pilots, in garnering support for the Huey operation. The fact of the matter is that Gerry is well within his rights to convert any pilot on the Huey, Slade did help out for a short period over the festive season, and Arthur has only recently joined their operation. All of these highly qualified men as mentioned, including any qualified pilot (comm or ppl) can and will jump at the oppurtunity to fly this Huey 205. Who wouldnt? This is all possible because Gary has a valid experimental certificate of airworthiness, which allows the aircraft to fly.
As professionals, pilots and warbird enthusiasts we have the knowledge and insight into the aircraft and the associted risk of flying it. Now enter the not so well informed tourist / paying passenger who you find in their droves at the Waterfront in Cape Town. Their only interest a helicopter flight, be it in a Jet Ranger or Huey, most of them would not know the difference between the two. What matters to them only is price, and they certainly aren't aware of the implications or legalities of any Club Membership. What your average tourist would rely on however ,is that any aircraft be operated in accordance with Licensing Regulation in the interests of their safety.
I have to agree however, that a Grey Area exists wrt other clubs eg. Harvard Club, Thunder City. I think the crux primarilly lies with the fact that in these cases, you trully are dealing with your true aircraft enthusiast and not hundreds of ill informed tourists.
The fact of the matter is that right now Winn have a special experimental certificate of airworthiness to fly the Huey. This is a special dispensation under Part 21 of the Civil Aviation Requlations, which specifically disallows any commercial use of this helicopter on this certificate. The Huey is also a Military Version of the Bell 205 and cannot, in terms of ICAO, be allowed to operate under part 21.
Enter the Huey Extreme Club! By virtue of the club this apparently no longer constitutes a commercial operation. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a commercial operation, and by operating the system on a club basis, in terms of which passengers become members of the club, it is nothing but passanger transport in disguise. I don't believe that this is in the true spirit of the Law, and know for a fact that Civil Aviation did not intend this Experimental Airworthiness Certificate to constitute the flying of pax.
Maybe Francois could explain to me why ,when an associate paid and flew with Gary van der Merwe( and a commercial but unrated pilot on this particular flight), on the Huey recently, the detail on his credit card slip indicated Winn Sea Plane and Helicopter Charters and not the Huey Extreme Club? Surely this money should be directed to the club and not straight into the charter company?
The infamous Part 96, governing the commercial use of non type certified aircraft has not been promulgated yet. This might happen withing the next few months, and I asure you that the guidelines governing this Part will be strictly governed by the Civil Aviation Authorities. If and when Francois gets a valid license under Part 96 or Part 127 as he enthusuastically states,then I assure you that I will be the first person to put my hat in my hand and beg for a club membership. Until then, how about a truly professional attitude to respecting the Authorities and Licensing Laws, however flawed they might appear to be.
Let me just add that the Huey Operation in no way reflects on the Winn Helicopter Charter Operation. Where the Helicopter Operation lacked management and direction in the past, Francois has done a fantastic job in putting Winn on the map with some awesome systems. Having someone with Arthurs experience can only pay huge devidends as well. If the same approach was shown to the Huey operation, I have no doubt there wouldn't be any outcry from the industry.
Which finally brings me to the point where I defend some allegations directed at Civair Helicopters by Francios. May I just add that Personal Agendas reflected towards the present owner of Civair, should not reflect poorly on the many profesionals under his employment who are passionate, and very serious about this fantastic industry.
The primary allegation is the absence of floatation gear on some of our aircraft. Francois correctly pointed out that three of our aircraft do not have floatation gear. However if Francois took a closer look at the Aviation LLaw governing flights over water, he will notice that the Law makes provision for take offs and departures, as well as landings and approaches over water. Here floatation gear is not required for these phases of flight. I assume due to their short duration, and the nature of many landing zones that are similar in nature to the Waterfront.
However where the intended purpose of the flight at hand is to be conducted over water ,and the aircraft might find itself outside of authoritative distance from land (read autorotative), then all the requirements pertaining to floatation gear, life jackets, dinghies and ground communication does apply. Civair have always complied with these requirements and have often turned away work to our competitors, when any of our two float equipped aircraft are unavailable.
Furthermore Francois, the Noise Abatement Charter has nothing to do with the issue of floatation gear or life vests. Through our compliance with the Noise Abatement Charter, at 2500'-3000' ASL sea level, we place ourselves within autorotational distance from land, and therefore don't require floatation gear on all our aircraft. That is when it comes to general flights around the Peninsula.
Most of the Huey 205 flight is conducted over the ocean (primarily during routing) and untill recently, was flown too low and too far out to constitute a safe autorotation to the shoreline. I must acknowledge that this has been rectified recently.
Finally I will add that although this is a rumour network, threats and allegations under an alias serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. It would seem that only a very few are prepared to address issues under their professional namesakes. The damage that can be done through suspicion and incorrect association can be career threatening.
As for me I place my faith in constructive criticism and the relevant authorities and I trully hope that in the mean time,we can all work in competitive peace with each other.
Any direct queries please feel free to e-mail me on [email protected]. Any queries regarding the licensing issue's brought up, contact Thinus van Jaarsveld, head of Helicopter Operations SACAA.
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Mmmm! Thanks Tom and co. My name is Peter hanes and I hold a helicopter ATP and fly for most of the operators in Cape Town.
Why am I steamed? Ask Francois about the last 3.8 hours I flew at Win. I was then asked to invoice for 5.8 hours as someone else had flown the other two hours so as not to lose business. At this stage I was too embaressed to ask if this person had a license or not. Imagine how I felt finding out he did not and I must now cover for this guy.Give me a break! So that was the end of Win and I.
A little whisper in the staffs ears at Win to please ask the management to sort out stuff like this fell on deaf ears and the next thing the Huey club arrives.
Ask here ask there and soon there are all sorts of things popping up. So what to do? As Gunns says this is a rumour network and I have perhaps gone too far but then maybe not.
Gents the main people are our passengers and we are responsible to them to the end. Flying must be possible, safe and legal. Tell me that your operations fulfill these criteria and you`r the man. If not?
Allegations about blades - all too true, timex blades taken out of their boxes. fitted and bladetracked. Luckily the owner of the blades noticed that the boxes were empty and hunted them down. If you want the name of the owner email me via civair.
As to have I reported all of the above - yes, and what has happened - zip.
The Operators have now had to go so far as too threaten CAA with legal action to get them to do their job.
Gents do it properly - shortcuts merely hurt us all.
Why am I steamed? Ask Francois about the last 3.8 hours I flew at Win. I was then asked to invoice for 5.8 hours as someone else had flown the other two hours so as not to lose business. At this stage I was too embaressed to ask if this person had a license or not. Imagine how I felt finding out he did not and I must now cover for this guy.Give me a break! So that was the end of Win and I.
A little whisper in the staffs ears at Win to please ask the management to sort out stuff like this fell on deaf ears and the next thing the Huey club arrives.
Ask here ask there and soon there are all sorts of things popping up. So what to do? As Gunns says this is a rumour network and I have perhaps gone too far but then maybe not.
Gents the main people are our passengers and we are responsible to them to the end. Flying must be possible, safe and legal. Tell me that your operations fulfill these criteria and you`r the man. If not?
Allegations about blades - all too true, timex blades taken out of their boxes. fitted and bladetracked. Luckily the owner of the blades noticed that the boxes were empty and hunted them down. If you want the name of the owner email me via civair.
As to have I reported all of the above - yes, and what has happened - zip.
The Operators have now had to go so far as too threaten CAA with legal action to get them to do their job.
Gents do it properly - shortcuts merely hurt us all.
Gatvol
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Marc seems to have made a calm, intelligent reply. Lets see the response...
This whole thing winds down to the Almighty Rand. Folks who invent a better mousetrap will make the money first. If there were four (or some number of) Hueys on the Waterfront, they would probably all starve. So it becomes a matter of lets get it while We can. It also appears there are plenty of folks willing to part with their hard earned money..............So as long as nobody gets shutdown, somebody is going to make money. Im sure the investors in this operation did not plan on doing it for free or the goodness of their hearts....
Folks its the Golden Rule. "He who has the Gold Rules."
Now Francois, I see a couple Cobras for Sale. Know someone who has the Money??
This whole thing winds down to the Almighty Rand. Folks who invent a better mousetrap will make the money first. If there were four (or some number of) Hueys on the Waterfront, they would probably all starve. So it becomes a matter of lets get it while We can. It also appears there are plenty of folks willing to part with their hard earned money..............So as long as nobody gets shutdown, somebody is going to make money. Im sure the investors in this operation did not plan on doing it for free or the goodness of their hearts....
Folks its the Golden Rule. "He who has the Gold Rules."
Now Francois, I see a couple Cobras for Sale. Know someone who has the Money??
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POST BY FRANCOIS MARAIS - POSTED WRONGLY
francois marais
Just another number
posted 5th February 2003 10:56 ON THE WRONG THREAD
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Hi to all. Thanks for your input Marc & Rotorhead.
This will be my last posting on this thread, as I have decided not to further involve myself defending the Huey, its operation or our company and its activities. After all, why should I continuously respond to rumours that are created by people who are deliberately out to defame us?
Marc, why don't you pop in for a cup of coffee and come and chat to me about all the gripes you have. Maybe we can then address a few issues man to man. Constructive dialogue has never hurt anyone. I can also, if I want to, open a couple of worm cans, but its not in my nature to defame anyone, or bother what they're doing in their business. My primary responsibility lies with effectively running my business. So if you want to take me up on my offer, you're welcome anytime.
To Rotorhead, I just want to say the following:
You must be very careful what you say, especially if you're not sure of the facts. Don't splab you're mouth off on things you know nothing about. This is a rumour network, but what you are trying to do is to deliberately defame someone by posting rumours that you have heard via third parties. I spoke to our AMO, and I was informed that you called them a couple of times to try and establish the facts on the so called timex rotorblades. (If you had the facts, why do that?)The engineer also categorically stated that at no time was any timex blades fitted,tracked or flown on any of our aircraft, and at no time did the blades ever leave his facility. The rumour that you and the Macdonalds are spreading about Gary trying to "steal" their timex blades is nothing but malicious & defamatory. Robert Macdonald of Sport Helicopters started this rumour, and Gary did address the matter with him telephonically. His father also called the AMO on numerous occassions to establish the facts, and on each occassion the engineer told him the true story. It appears that you are trying to implicate the engineer in your wrath as well.
There is a long story attached to these blades, where they were removed, by whom, where they were stored, how they ended up in the AMO etc. Why did'nt you bother to establish the true facts? Its evident that you posted this rumour with the deliberate intend of having a go at us. Bad move Rotorhead!
Gunns, with regard to the Mil 8 parked on the quay side: Loius Vosloo went to see it. He researched a bit of history on the machine, and I will ask him to post his findings. The M/R blades are off, and the front windscreen is broken. I must say, it looks a sorry sight. Its moving closer and closer to the scrap heap, and one wonders if its not destined for just that? I heard its for sale.
Just another number
posted 5th February 2003 10:56 ON THE WRONG THREAD
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Hi to all. Thanks for your input Marc & Rotorhead.
This will be my last posting on this thread, as I have decided not to further involve myself defending the Huey, its operation or our company and its activities. After all, why should I continuously respond to rumours that are created by people who are deliberately out to defame us?
Marc, why don't you pop in for a cup of coffee and come and chat to me about all the gripes you have. Maybe we can then address a few issues man to man. Constructive dialogue has never hurt anyone. I can also, if I want to, open a couple of worm cans, but its not in my nature to defame anyone, or bother what they're doing in their business. My primary responsibility lies with effectively running my business. So if you want to take me up on my offer, you're welcome anytime.
To Rotorhead, I just want to say the following:
You must be very careful what you say, especially if you're not sure of the facts. Don't splab you're mouth off on things you know nothing about. This is a rumour network, but what you are trying to do is to deliberately defame someone by posting rumours that you have heard via third parties. I spoke to our AMO, and I was informed that you called them a couple of times to try and establish the facts on the so called timex rotorblades. (If you had the facts, why do that?)The engineer also categorically stated that at no time was any timex blades fitted,tracked or flown on any of our aircraft, and at no time did the blades ever leave his facility. The rumour that you and the Macdonalds are spreading about Gary trying to "steal" their timex blades is nothing but malicious & defamatory. Robert Macdonald of Sport Helicopters started this rumour, and Gary did address the matter with him telephonically. His father also called the AMO on numerous occassions to establish the facts, and on each occassion the engineer told him the true story. It appears that you are trying to implicate the engineer in your wrath as well.
There is a long story attached to these blades, where they were removed, by whom, where they were stored, how they ended up in the AMO etc. Why did'nt you bother to establish the true facts? Its evident that you posted this rumour with the deliberate intend of having a go at us. Bad move Rotorhead!
Gunns, with regard to the Mil 8 parked on the quay side: Loius Vosloo went to see it. He researched a bit of history on the machine, and I will ask him to post his findings. The M/R blades are off, and the front windscreen is broken. I must say, it looks a sorry sight. Its moving closer and closer to the scrap heap, and one wonders if its not destined for just that? I heard its for sale.
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I still wonder why Peter Hanes singled out the Huey? He's last posting was rather lame. Come on Peter, why don't you tell us why you singled out this ZU machine, and not all the others operating in SA. Why have you never attacked ThunderCity and all the others? You never answered that one. Is it not true that PPL's also fly at Thunder City and all the others? I understand that you are actually an airways pilot now, although you would prefer to be a helicopter pilot, and that you do all your helicopter flying at Civair. Is it because the Huey takes your business away, which means less helicopter hours (and money) for you, or is it because you have a personal problem with the operators of the Huey? Marc Perkins was right by saying that "anyone would jump at the chance to fly it". Are you one of those?
I see from Francois' previous posting that he has extended an invitation to Marc to discuss his thoughts. Why don't you go along and address the issue directly with Francois as well. You guys all work together down there, so why don't you at least try to be on reasonable terms with each other. All of this bulldust is very bad for aviation in general, and you guys should be making friends not enemies. Competition is healthy for all, as Marc rightfully said, so I really don't see the need for you to have the kind of attitude that you're currently displaying. If you're going to attack ZU machines, attack them all, not just one, and at least be man enough to state your reasons why you have not attacked all the others.
During a time where aviation is growing in Africa, espacially SA, pilots and operators need to work together, not against each other. No use burning bridges, because at some stage you may need each other. (I'm pretty sure that you guys do help each other from time to time with sub-chartering etc. So why talk sh*t about each other when you can make use of each other.
I see from Francois' previous posting that he has extended an invitation to Marc to discuss his thoughts. Why don't you go along and address the issue directly with Francois as well. You guys all work together down there, so why don't you at least try to be on reasonable terms with each other. All of this bulldust is very bad for aviation in general, and you guys should be making friends not enemies. Competition is healthy for all, as Marc rightfully said, so I really don't see the need for you to have the kind of attitude that you're currently displaying. If you're going to attack ZU machines, attack them all, not just one, and at least be man enough to state your reasons why you have not attacked all the others.
During a time where aviation is growing in Africa, espacially SA, pilots and operators need to work together, not against each other. No use burning bridges, because at some stage you may need each other. (I'm pretty sure that you guys do help each other from time to time with sub-chartering etc. So why talk sh*t about each other when you can make use of each other.
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I have read through the threads again. Gunns mentions that Rotorhead's main concern was the licencing.
What I would like to establish is, How does one categorize a professional pilot, and when are you regarded as a professional pilot? Are you only categorized as a professional pilot if you have a professional pilot's licence from the country that you operate in, irrespective of other professional foreign licences you may hold? I'm referring to one fellow who's got a comm licence from another country and now has it validated in the country where he lives. If you qualify as a com pilot in a foreign country, and you fly professionally or commercially as a career in that country, are you then regarded as a professional pilot? If you are, then lets assume the following: Lets assume that you then go to another country, where you don't have a commercial licence, does that mean that you are no longer categorized as a professional pilot? Surely once a professional pilot, always a professional pilot, irrespective of which country you qualified in.
Take for example highly skilled, professional military pilots. They fly as professionals for their country, and after an ex amount of years, they leave the service of their Force. After half a life time in aviation as professional military aviators, surely they are regarded as professional pilots? They then leave their Force, join another Force in another government somewhere, where they fly on a military ticket issued to them by that Force. Theoretically they don't have a civilian licence, and because of that, are they then regarded as non-professional pilots because they don't have a civilian professional pilot's licence?
Its like doctors. For example: You qualify as a doctor in Canada. Surely once you have qualified as a doctor, you are always categorized as a doctor. Working in another country which may require you to register as a doctor does not mean that if you should work in a hospital for example, under the supervision of a registrar, whilst you are waiting to be rigistered, that you are then no longer categorized as a qualified doctor?
Aviation is a universal thing, and all aviation qualifications are the same. If you qualify as a professional pilot in Australia, Canada, the UK, where-ever, as a Commercial pilot, surely you should then be categorized as a professional pilot. Most countries do recognize this, and do allow foreign licences to be validated, or the applicants are issued with an equivalent licence, based on the qualifications from the country of origin.
This brings me to the point where one of the Huey drivers got a SA validation based upon his foreign licence. Now that guy was a professional pilot in another country. Yet the critics mentioned him as an unprofessional pilot. Surely this can't be right? Do these guys think that because they have been schooled as professional pilots in SA, and got SA professional licences that anyone else that were schooled as a professional pilot and issued with a professional licence in another country is not a professional pilot? Can these licence "experts" please provide me with some clarity on that? I got the impression that Marc Perkins' congratulatory remark to this guy getting a validation on his Swazi licence was said rather "tongue in cheek", and I got the impression that it was done with a bit of sarcasm, as though he looked down upon this guy. Come on Marc, we are all professionals, irrespective of where we received our professional schooling.
What I would like to establish is, How does one categorize a professional pilot, and when are you regarded as a professional pilot? Are you only categorized as a professional pilot if you have a professional pilot's licence from the country that you operate in, irrespective of other professional foreign licences you may hold? I'm referring to one fellow who's got a comm licence from another country and now has it validated in the country where he lives. If you qualify as a com pilot in a foreign country, and you fly professionally or commercially as a career in that country, are you then regarded as a professional pilot? If you are, then lets assume the following: Lets assume that you then go to another country, where you don't have a commercial licence, does that mean that you are no longer categorized as a professional pilot? Surely once a professional pilot, always a professional pilot, irrespective of which country you qualified in.
Take for example highly skilled, professional military pilots. They fly as professionals for their country, and after an ex amount of years, they leave the service of their Force. After half a life time in aviation as professional military aviators, surely they are regarded as professional pilots? They then leave their Force, join another Force in another government somewhere, where they fly on a military ticket issued to them by that Force. Theoretically they don't have a civilian licence, and because of that, are they then regarded as non-professional pilots because they don't have a civilian professional pilot's licence?
Its like doctors. For example: You qualify as a doctor in Canada. Surely once you have qualified as a doctor, you are always categorized as a doctor. Working in another country which may require you to register as a doctor does not mean that if you should work in a hospital for example, under the supervision of a registrar, whilst you are waiting to be rigistered, that you are then no longer categorized as a qualified doctor?
Aviation is a universal thing, and all aviation qualifications are the same. If you qualify as a professional pilot in Australia, Canada, the UK, where-ever, as a Commercial pilot, surely you should then be categorized as a professional pilot. Most countries do recognize this, and do allow foreign licences to be validated, or the applicants are issued with an equivalent licence, based on the qualifications from the country of origin.
This brings me to the point where one of the Huey drivers got a SA validation based upon his foreign licence. Now that guy was a professional pilot in another country. Yet the critics mentioned him as an unprofessional pilot. Surely this can't be right? Do these guys think that because they have been schooled as professional pilots in SA, and got SA professional licences that anyone else that were schooled as a professional pilot and issued with a professional licence in another country is not a professional pilot? Can these licence "experts" please provide me with some clarity on that? I got the impression that Marc Perkins' congratulatory remark to this guy getting a validation on his Swazi licence was said rather "tongue in cheek", and I got the impression that it was done with a bit of sarcasm, as though he looked down upon this guy. Come on Marc, we are all professionals, irrespective of where we received our professional schooling.
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"Take for example highly skilled, professional military pilots. They fly as professionals for their country, and after an ex amount of years, they leave the service of their Force. After half a life time in aviation as professional military aviators, surely they are regarded as professional pilots? They then leave their Force, join another Force in another government somewhere, where they fly on a military ticket issued to them by that Force. Theoretically they don't have a civilian licence, and because of that, are they then regarded as non-professional pilots because they don't have a civilian professional pilot's licence? "
Not sure where this occurs, but here in the states when we flew in the Military we were not required to have a Pilots License. IF we decided we wanted to fly civilian We are required to have an FAA issued license for the type of flying we do. The FAA does recognize certain things and will issue a Commercial license based on Military training. Only the written is required as times have been met in the military. For further licensing all FAA regs are applicable which requires writtens, times and checkrides by the FAA or their Designee.....
I do get my license validated when I come to SA but I dont live there full time and am not a threat to the working Pilots. Were it the case I would have an SA issued license.
Next year I may just get one and a work permit. Who knows with a couple thousand hours in a Huey, maybe I could find work there....
Not sure where this occurs, but here in the states when we flew in the Military we were not required to have a Pilots License. IF we decided we wanted to fly civilian We are required to have an FAA issued license for the type of flying we do. The FAA does recognize certain things and will issue a Commercial license based on Military training. Only the written is required as times have been met in the military. For further licensing all FAA regs are applicable which requires writtens, times and checkrides by the FAA or their Designee.....
I do get my license validated when I come to SA but I dont live there full time and am not a threat to the working Pilots. Were it the case I would have an SA issued license.
Next year I may just get one and a work permit. Who knows with a couple thousand hours in a Huey, maybe I could find work there....
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...still begs the question...
...as to if this means we can all buy IL-76's and start flights to wherever club members want to go. (I hear Miami is very nice this time of year)
Jokes aside, this whole thing addresses some pretty serious issues. Gary has seen a gap, and exploited it, as have Mike Beechy-Head and others.
When Moses walked the earth, the CAA elected to allow 'aviation enthusiasts' to get their filthy little paws on ex-military machines to fly 'as enthusiasts'. The associated costs between a fully certified, airworthy, INSURED, heli and an ex-military one are obvious, allowing for lower cost flying.
Now, to use the 'loophole' as has been done, take money from anyone and disguise it in a membership raises something of a moral dilemma. As pilots, we are required to maintain the equivalent of a hippocratic oath to our passengers. Keep them alive. When the system, however hazy, is manipulted for financial gain, while others stand up for protection from the relevant authority and enjoy none, it's small wonder a little mud-slinging is evident. It seems the bigger beef is with the CAA for allowing this to happen. Thinus himself has mentioned that it's all a 'little embarrassing' in the eyes of the international aviation community.
Since this is a 'rumour network' here comes an ugly one. IT'S NOT POINTING FINGERS!! (Before I get a visit from Luigi and Mario with their baseball bats...) I understand that passengers are not fully informed of the risks associated with flying without the mandatory insurance that other operators must have (Hull, 3rd Party, Passenger Liability). This I have heard from more than one source. This means there MAY BE an element of deception, to make a little more money. ALSO (I'm not done...) if I sit in my house in Blaauwberg (Not actually in Blaauwberg) and a 205 comes barreling through my patio at a rate of knots, I understand it's not insured. Does this mean I claim for my new braai, leather jacket, Taylor-Made clubs and Ray-Bans from the CAA for allowing the flight to take place depite the law not actually being promulgated?
Last question: Where do I buy membership to the "7:30 - Cape Town to Jo'Burg Club" from SAA? Why not...
Jokes aside, this whole thing addresses some pretty serious issues. Gary has seen a gap, and exploited it, as have Mike Beechy-Head and others.
When Moses walked the earth, the CAA elected to allow 'aviation enthusiasts' to get their filthy little paws on ex-military machines to fly 'as enthusiasts'. The associated costs between a fully certified, airworthy, INSURED, heli and an ex-military one are obvious, allowing for lower cost flying.
Now, to use the 'loophole' as has been done, take money from anyone and disguise it in a membership raises something of a moral dilemma. As pilots, we are required to maintain the equivalent of a hippocratic oath to our passengers. Keep them alive. When the system, however hazy, is manipulted for financial gain, while others stand up for protection from the relevant authority and enjoy none, it's small wonder a little mud-slinging is evident. It seems the bigger beef is with the CAA for allowing this to happen. Thinus himself has mentioned that it's all a 'little embarrassing' in the eyes of the international aviation community.
Since this is a 'rumour network' here comes an ugly one. IT'S NOT POINTING FINGERS!! (Before I get a visit from Luigi and Mario with their baseball bats...) I understand that passengers are not fully informed of the risks associated with flying without the mandatory insurance that other operators must have (Hull, 3rd Party, Passenger Liability). This I have heard from more than one source. This means there MAY BE an element of deception, to make a little more money. ALSO (I'm not done...) if I sit in my house in Blaauwberg (Not actually in Blaauwberg) and a 205 comes barreling through my patio at a rate of knots, I understand it's not insured. Does this mean I claim for my new braai, leather jacket, Taylor-Made clubs and Ray-Bans from the CAA for allowing the flight to take place depite the law not actually being promulgated?
Last question: Where do I buy membership to the "7:30 - Cape Town to Jo'Burg Club" from SAA? Why not...
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This has been going on for ages that there is a loop hole in the so called law.
Take microlights.They do exactly the same.
To do microlight instruction all you have to have is their instructors rating (which is an in-house exam) and Bobs your aunty you can now teach people to fly on a Jabaru (which to my mind and a lot of others,the same as a 150).
AND you charge 3 times more (instructors fees) than a proper bona fide CAA instructor.
All this without a CAA com or instructors rating.Oh yes,you can also use an Aviartica (or any other 3 axis microlight) to go and crop spray.All legal as far as the CAA goes.(Also without a CAA comm)
Now that is taking our money away.
So really what the Huey club is doing is no more illegal than everyone else in the industry is doing.
But there is nothing more exilerating than paddling one's paddle ski out along the coast and you hear that doof doof of the huey's rotor blades, coming along from behind.It gives one that instant ??? on.(Reminds me when I was in Nam taking on all the gooks)
Pity they fly so high though.
Take microlights.They do exactly the same.
To do microlight instruction all you have to have is their instructors rating (which is an in-house exam) and Bobs your aunty you can now teach people to fly on a Jabaru (which to my mind and a lot of others,the same as a 150).
AND you charge 3 times more (instructors fees) than a proper bona fide CAA instructor.
All this without a CAA com or instructors rating.Oh yes,you can also use an Aviartica (or any other 3 axis microlight) to go and crop spray.All legal as far as the CAA goes.(Also without a CAA comm)
Now that is taking our money away.
So really what the Huey club is doing is no more illegal than everyone else in the industry is doing.
But there is nothing more exilerating than paddling one's paddle ski out along the coast and you hear that doof doof of the huey's rotor blades, coming along from behind.It gives one that instant ??? on.(Reminds me when I was in Nam taking on all the gooks)
Pity they fly so high though.
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There I was having another bad Saturday at the office.
paddling my ski out at sea and minding my own business,when suddely I have this instant h.... on,and new straight away.
That funny looking thing in the sky was on it's way even before I heard it's doof doof of it's rotor blades.
There it arrived.
Funny thing was I had to look thru binocs to see what was happening thru it's open door (the pilots they employ were never in Nam when I was there,I actually think they must be airline pilots they fly so high).
Anyways,thru my binocs,I see terror,or is is pure happiness smile.(I swear I thought the one oke was going to swallow his ears he was grinning so much).
Funny thing was when I trained the binocs onto the front of this thing the two okie pokes in the front were also grinning.
Then I knew what I was about to do.
Write to the CAA,No,I'm going to phone them.It is not right that these people can enjoy themselves in the Huey like that on a Saturday afternoon.
I honestly think it is disgusting.
Just now they get another Huey and twice as many people will be enjoying themselves.
That is just not cricket.
(And the truth about Jonty is that he did not actually break his finger,he bought a season ticket on the Huey Extreme and the cricket interferred with it....Dammmmm).(Where is Nam?)
paddling my ski out at sea and minding my own business,when suddely I have this instant h.... on,and new straight away.
That funny looking thing in the sky was on it's way even before I heard it's doof doof of it's rotor blades.
There it arrived.
Funny thing was I had to look thru binocs to see what was happening thru it's open door (the pilots they employ were never in Nam when I was there,I actually think they must be airline pilots they fly so high).
Anyways,thru my binocs,I see terror,or is is pure happiness smile.(I swear I thought the one oke was going to swallow his ears he was grinning so much).
Funny thing was when I trained the binocs onto the front of this thing the two okie pokes in the front were also grinning.
Then I knew what I was about to do.
Write to the CAA,No,I'm going to phone them.It is not right that these people can enjoy themselves in the Huey like that on a Saturday afternoon.
I honestly think it is disgusting.
Just now they get another Huey and twice as many people will be enjoying themselves.
That is just not cricket.
(And the truth about Jonty is that he did not actually break his finger,he bought a season ticket on the Huey Extreme and the cricket interferred with it....Dammmmm).(Where is Nam?)
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Goffel
What was your call sign in Vietnam?? What did you fly?? We may have mutual friends.....What class were you in?? I was a Yellow Hat 70-28.
Hedge Pedge writes:When Moses walked the earth, the CAA elected to allow 'aviation enthusiasts' to get their filthy little paws on ex-military machines to fly 'as enthusiasts'. The associated costs between a fully certified, airworthy, INSURED, heli and an ex-military one are obvious, allowing for lower cost flying.
Im not sure as I agree with "Filthy Little Paws". Back when this all began, things were much different than they were today. For those of you that dont know, most all the Stearmans and like aircraft were surplus. Also all those AT-6/SNJs.
I had one friend who told me that after WW2 there were so many aircraft that they couldnt destroy them fast enough. One could buy a F4U Corsair for $200, which was a lot of money at the time. They would buy one fly it over the fence (Davis Monthan AFB) unload the fuel and re-sell that for over $200, then junk the plane. P-51 Mustangs, the same with extra engines for a $100.... Those who had some forsight kept them up and those are now the Million dollar specimens we love and pay to see at airshows. They will be around for sometime, if the SA folks would just quit breaking them.....
Now after a different war all those Helicopters are out there. NOT as many as you think. I do hope there are a few with some spare change WHO WILL preserve them, be it giving rides or whatever.
Im still waiting to hear from someone who is ready to fork over some Rand for a Cobra. I would love to stick Francois in the front seat and watch him crap his pants when I show him the underside of a real attitude indicator.
What was your call sign in Vietnam?? What did you fly?? We may have mutual friends.....What class were you in?? I was a Yellow Hat 70-28.
Hedge Pedge writes:When Moses walked the earth, the CAA elected to allow 'aviation enthusiasts' to get their filthy little paws on ex-military machines to fly 'as enthusiasts'. The associated costs between a fully certified, airworthy, INSURED, heli and an ex-military one are obvious, allowing for lower cost flying.
Im not sure as I agree with "Filthy Little Paws". Back when this all began, things were much different than they were today. For those of you that dont know, most all the Stearmans and like aircraft were surplus. Also all those AT-6/SNJs.
I had one friend who told me that after WW2 there were so many aircraft that they couldnt destroy them fast enough. One could buy a F4U Corsair for $200, which was a lot of money at the time. They would buy one fly it over the fence (Davis Monthan AFB) unload the fuel and re-sell that for over $200, then junk the plane. P-51 Mustangs, the same with extra engines for a $100.... Those who had some forsight kept them up and those are now the Million dollar specimens we love and pay to see at airshows. They will be around for sometime, if the SA folks would just quit breaking them.....
Now after a different war all those Helicopters are out there. NOT as many as you think. I do hope there are a few with some spare change WHO WILL preserve them, be it giving rides or whatever.
Im still waiting to hear from someone who is ready to fork over some Rand for a Cobra. I would love to stick Francois in the front seat and watch him crap his pants when I show him the underside of a real attitude indicator.