Kinshasa Airways
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Away
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kinshasa Airways
Can somebody please tell me something more about Kinshasa Airways and its operations.They have a post up for 707, 727 and 737 cpt& F/O.Any of you guys know something about that?
How is DR of Congo these days anyway?
thanks a lot!
lostcomm
How is DR of Congo these days anyway?
thanks a lot!
lostcomm
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kinshasa DRC
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lostcomm - if you read the old posts here you will find some info on Kin/Kinshasa Airways.
Without being too pessimistic and not wishing to start rummors regarding other companies I will give you my opinion.
Every man and his dog knows by now that the war is basically finished and all foreign troops have virtually left and there 'exists' the chance for the reopening of the country (as it's now divided into three and there is virtually no commercial movements between the different parts).
Since 11/9 there are thousands of aircraft standing idle all around the world and it's a buyers market. Aircraft agents are offering lease-purchase-finance at amazing prices and most people here in Congo 'Think' you can make millions in aviation (lets not get into that debate here)
So every man and his dog here at the moment is paying the up front garantee and surprise surprise they have a 'new' Boeing etc.... This however does not mean they will make it in the real world of commercial aviation.
To answer your question - this company has been 'bringing' aircraft here since a year already and so far only talk. Every month another agent, another aircraft type and never the plane arrives. I also noticed with much surprise the recent adds on the internet - as there are rated current pilots available here in Kinshasa which begs the question - why not them?
I do know pilots here who have been approached by these people but all have so far refussed. There are already too many companies operating here for the moment with the result being price wars which leads to non payment of salaries and eventually company closures. Even if the country opens up, I just don't see where there is room for another large airline.
If they do suceed then it will mean that Hewa Bora(Congo Airlines) will have to close because since more than 10 years already there is simply not the work for two large airlines. If that happens then the pilots of Hewa will come across to Kin Air and problem solved. The fact that none are interested makes me think they don't believe they have a chance in hell of making a dollar!
I don't know if this helps at all -
Mobutu
Without being too pessimistic and not wishing to start rummors regarding other companies I will give you my opinion.
Every man and his dog knows by now that the war is basically finished and all foreign troops have virtually left and there 'exists' the chance for the reopening of the country (as it's now divided into three and there is virtually no commercial movements between the different parts).
Since 11/9 there are thousands of aircraft standing idle all around the world and it's a buyers market. Aircraft agents are offering lease-purchase-finance at amazing prices and most people here in Congo 'Think' you can make millions in aviation (lets not get into that debate here)
So every man and his dog here at the moment is paying the up front garantee and surprise surprise they have a 'new' Boeing etc.... This however does not mean they will make it in the real world of commercial aviation.
To answer your question - this company has been 'bringing' aircraft here since a year already and so far only talk. Every month another agent, another aircraft type and never the plane arrives. I also noticed with much surprise the recent adds on the internet - as there are rated current pilots available here in Kinshasa which begs the question - why not them?
I do know pilots here who have been approached by these people but all have so far refussed. There are already too many companies operating here for the moment with the result being price wars which leads to non payment of salaries and eventually company closures. Even if the country opens up, I just don't see where there is room for another large airline.
If they do suceed then it will mean that Hewa Bora(Congo Airlines) will have to close because since more than 10 years already there is simply not the work for two large airlines. If that happens then the pilots of Hewa will come across to Kin Air and problem solved. The fact that none are interested makes me think they don't believe they have a chance in hell of making a dollar!
I don't know if this helps at all -
Mobutu
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: 22.5 parallel
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Mobotu,
Was in Sharjah few days ago and saw two B707 painted in Kinshasa Airways logo.
Puzzled, I called on my "investigators" and they reported next day that a DRC businessman came along and aquired these from an owner at OMSJ. Furthermore, said businessman also purchased one B707F and two DC855F from a DXB company which operated out of OMSJ till they called it a day about 9 months ago and parked subject aircraft at the OMSJ graveyard.
Said aircaft are now paint stripped to be painted in K.A. logo and are being readied to be flown away.
You are not financing them Mobotu, being a Billionair yourself?
With best regards
A.V.
Was in Sharjah few days ago and saw two B707 painted in Kinshasa Airways logo.
Puzzled, I called on my "investigators" and they reported next day that a DRC businessman came along and aquired these from an owner at OMSJ. Furthermore, said businessman also purchased one B707F and two DC855F from a DXB company which operated out of OMSJ till they called it a day about 9 months ago and parked subject aircraft at the OMSJ graveyard.
Said aircaft are now paint stripped to be painted in K.A. logo and are being readied to be flown away.
You are not financing them Mobotu, being a Billionair yourself?
With best regards
A.V.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kinshasa DRC
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bla Bla
Talked with some 'friends' here in Kin today about Kin Air and it seems I'm not the only one who thinks things are a little bizare.
The brains behind Kin Air is a 'Pastor' preacher man who managed to convince gullable Congolese that he is the saviour to give him enough money which he decided in his wisdom to 'invest' in the greatest money making scheme in history - AVIATION - and surprise surprise he talked his way into a 'partenership' with a Canadian company who has a fleet of grounded Boeing's that are NOT legal to fly anywhere in the real world but sure enough here in Congo anything is possible with enough money - and they 'plan' to colaborate with LAC (Air zaire) to operate on their routes.
Funny however is that a list of companies has tried the same - Sabena, AOM, City Bird, Air Zim etc......and NONE have suceeded in turning a profit. But miracles do exist and they surely need one so who knows what will happen.
Also amazing is that LAC have been 'offered' by our American friends at Boeing NEW Boeing 737,767 etc (Maybe they are still pissed at SAA's decision to buy Airbus) and IF this occurs then LAC will not need Kin Air any more than a dog needs flees and will surely drop them like a hot potatoe.
I always say 'seeing is believing' and when it comes to African Aviation then I emphasise this to the maximum possible. After thinking this over I think they require drivers to deliver the aircraft to Kin - after that you can kiss whatever butt you like but I don't think it will help at all! Kinshasa doesn't need you - there are at least 20 qualified Boeing pilots here at the moment who could drive these clapped out wrecks until 'God' decides no more!
Oh buy the way Aerovision there are two 707's and a DC-8 sitting virtually idle here in Kin for the moment as there is no freight - but wait I forgot 'they' don't know how to exploit their machines properly - lets have a Canadian nothing to lose and a Congolese hack show us all how it is done!
When I was president we had real aviation!!!!!!
Mobutu
The brains behind Kin Air is a 'Pastor' preacher man who managed to convince gullable Congolese that he is the saviour to give him enough money which he decided in his wisdom to 'invest' in the greatest money making scheme in history - AVIATION - and surprise surprise he talked his way into a 'partenership' with a Canadian company who has a fleet of grounded Boeing's that are NOT legal to fly anywhere in the real world but sure enough here in Congo anything is possible with enough money - and they 'plan' to colaborate with LAC (Air zaire) to operate on their routes.
Funny however is that a list of companies has tried the same - Sabena, AOM, City Bird, Air Zim etc......and NONE have suceeded in turning a profit. But miracles do exist and they surely need one so who knows what will happen.
Also amazing is that LAC have been 'offered' by our American friends at Boeing NEW Boeing 737,767 etc (Maybe they are still pissed at SAA's decision to buy Airbus) and IF this occurs then LAC will not need Kin Air any more than a dog needs flees and will surely drop them like a hot potatoe.
I always say 'seeing is believing' and when it comes to African Aviation then I emphasise this to the maximum possible. After thinking this over I think they require drivers to deliver the aircraft to Kin - after that you can kiss whatever butt you like but I don't think it will help at all! Kinshasa doesn't need you - there are at least 20 qualified Boeing pilots here at the moment who could drive these clapped out wrecks until 'God' decides no more!
Oh buy the way Aerovision there are two 707's and a DC-8 sitting virtually idle here in Kin for the moment as there is no freight - but wait I forgot 'they' don't know how to exploit their machines properly - lets have a Canadian nothing to lose and a Congolese hack show us all how it is done!
When I was president we had real aviation!!!!!!
Mobutu
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Away
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok Mobotu, realy a great reserch from your part . I sense a lot of negative energie in your writing. Something personal you got against those guys?
Well anyway, thanks a lot fot your view on the things. Who knows, anything is posible, maybe even a company like that turning profit.... let`s wait and see.
lostcomm
Well anyway, thanks a lot fot your view on the things. Who knows, anything is posible, maybe even a company like that turning profit.... let`s wait and see.
lostcomm
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kinshasa DRC
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another African Dream.....
Sorry Lostcomm for sounding so negative but I was trying to give youself and others who might be thinking of signing up for this company a little background info. I was having another one of those 'African Days' - I will try again.......
As many people who read this forum are well aware, it is always a risk to join a start-up airline - when it involves Africa, look really carefully before jumping in feet first.
I remember reading recently about other unfortunate pilots who joined a 'new venture' in Angola with 727's only to be stranded in Luanda with unpaid salaries and no return ticket.
They could get lucky and so might you if you get accepted - but bare in mind they are an unknown operator with no previous experience. They might hire the right people and turn a profit and everyone wins - but experience has taught me that more often than not things never work out as they planned!
To answer the other part of your question - DR Congo is on the road to recovery and things are slowly picking up. Security in the capital Kinshasa is ok for the moment due largely to the UN presence, there are many nightclubs, discos resturants etc... but it is not a cheep place to live. Salaries for expat pilots usually range between 2500-5000 USD with some exceptions depending on machine, operation and experience.
I hope this helps to make your decision and good luck in whatever you decide.
Cheers Mobutu
As many people who read this forum are well aware, it is always a risk to join a start-up airline - when it involves Africa, look really carefully before jumping in feet first.
I remember reading recently about other unfortunate pilots who joined a 'new venture' in Angola with 727's only to be stranded in Luanda with unpaid salaries and no return ticket.
They could get lucky and so might you if you get accepted - but bare in mind they are an unknown operator with no previous experience. They might hire the right people and turn a profit and everyone wins - but experience has taught me that more often than not things never work out as they planned!
To answer the other part of your question - DR Congo is on the road to recovery and things are slowly picking up. Security in the capital Kinshasa is ok for the moment due largely to the UN presence, there are many nightclubs, discos resturants etc... but it is not a cheep place to live. Salaries for expat pilots usually range between 2500-5000 USD with some exceptions depending on machine, operation and experience.
I hope this helps to make your decision and good luck in whatever you decide.
Cheers Mobutu
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: S of the border
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kinishasa Airways (D.R.C) is running an add in Flight International for B-737, 727, 707 and DC-8 crews. The address is in the U.A.E. Running an add in F.I. is not cheap, they are going through alot of effort to get crews.
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kinshasa DRC
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why run an add in F.I.?????
This is an easy one to answer crack-up....
It's not Kin Airways paying for the add my friend - rather the aircraft owner who is none the less rather worried about finding competent drivers who are willing to go work for a start-up Congolese run airline....would you not feel the same????
As I already mentioned there are CURRENT rated Boeing drivers here in congo (expat/local/mixed...etc) but it is rare to find one who is NOT working already AND is prepared to accept their proposition.
The old saying - Let's wait and see - comes to mind. Most of the experienced drivers here are waiting for the aircraft to arrive and start operating - others like myself are not prepared to give up their jobs/seniorority without know just what they are getting into.
This is why I said in an earlier post I think you could call these pilots 'Ferry Pilots' as I really don't believe that any of them will last more than 3-6 months here before being terminated or leaving of their own accord. I've seen it TOO many times here already.
A good example is when Zaire Express/Congo Airlines/Hewa Bora bought their BAC's in 1995 - they brought pilots in from all around the world and none of them lasted a year - most three months max.
****I'm not being negative - really - only realistic!*****
It's not Kin Airways paying for the add my friend - rather the aircraft owner who is none the less rather worried about finding competent drivers who are willing to go work for a start-up Congolese run airline....would you not feel the same????
As I already mentioned there are CURRENT rated Boeing drivers here in congo (expat/local/mixed...etc) but it is rare to find one who is NOT working already AND is prepared to accept their proposition.
The old saying - Let's wait and see - comes to mind. Most of the experienced drivers here are waiting for the aircraft to arrive and start operating - others like myself are not prepared to give up their jobs/seniorority without know just what they are getting into.
This is why I said in an earlier post I think you could call these pilots 'Ferry Pilots' as I really don't believe that any of them will last more than 3-6 months here before being terminated or leaving of their own accord. I've seen it TOO many times here already.
A good example is when Zaire Express/Congo Airlines/Hewa Bora bought their BAC's in 1995 - they brought pilots in from all around the world and none of them lasted a year - most three months max.
****I'm not being negative - really - only realistic!*****
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Away
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Mobotu, a great deal of realy good info from what looks like a guy who knows what his talking about.Will seriously consider your arguments and toughts!
Lostcomm
Lostcomm
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: S of the border
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Mobotu,
Just curious, I worked W. Africa in the late 80s, fun while it lasted but I have no desire to do it again. C.A. is about the same, things are just alittle closer together.
Just curious, I worked W. Africa in the late 80s, fun while it lasted but I have no desire to do it again. C.A. is about the same, things are just alittle closer together.
GunsssR4ever
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Out there somewhere ...
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mobotu
Guys,
Mobotu is on his way here to the Wild West. Will borrow him my line (just about only one working) and he can reply.
In the mean time I think we can all agree on very good comments that he made about the flying industry in the East Africa / Congo.
Will be great to hear his comments about the Wild West
Mobotu is on his way here to the Wild West. Will borrow him my line (just about only one working) and he can reply.
In the mean time I think we can all agree on very good comments that he made about the flying industry in the East Africa / Congo.
Will be great to hear his comments about the Wild West
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lostcomm
I heard that Kinshasa Airways is owned by a Dubaï businessman called Altani. The guy was one of Qatar Airways founder, so he seems fairly serious. Will the Kinshasa Airways deal be as serious, or will it be another African deadend, that's another story...
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Treetopflyer
Your speculations could well be true. I posted a thread on the Middle East forum about Kin Air and its possible Middle Eastern support. The brains behind it all could be Capt Hamad Al Thani and as Treetopflyer pointed out Al Thani was involved in Qatar Airways until 1997 when Qatar Airways MkII was born! Since then he has been responsible for Air Gulf Falcon which has seemed to have changed into Sky Aviation. They were/are involved in Hajj ops and they lent a 747SP to Iraqi Airways a few years ago to kickstart domestic ops, the aircraft is now back! The majority of the fleet if not all of it are registered in Swaziland. More recently Al Thani is behind a new venture called Sprit of Africa, which is going to operate (I guess) 747-200s under the Sudanese register. He is also involved in Blue Air Leasing – don’t know very much about them but they advertise every week in Flight! The telephone number in the advert has a SHJ telephone number, surprise surprise!!!
An advert for crews for Sprit of Africa was placed in Flight a few weeks before the Kin Air advert was published. The interesting point is the advert for Sprit of Africa is identical to the advert that was placed in Flight for Kin Air. Identical layout, font and more importantly the same address in SHJ was used. Obviously different types for the two different companies but there did seem to be a distinct similarity, which caught my eye instantly!
Don't know what to make of it. My first impression was that like Swaziland and Sudan, the Congo would be a flag of convieniece to operate ad hoc DC-8 ops????
Very interesting stuff folks. If anyone does apply then keep us posted. I am certainly very interested on how this new set up will progress.
Cheers!
Edited to include the address for those who may be interested. I don't have the copy of Flight to hand but I am 99.9% sure that this is the same address
PO Box 8153
SAIF Zone
Sharjah
UAE
The Tel number for Falcon Air Leasing/Air Gulf Falcon is +971 6 5570515 with the fax being the same as well. That number is listed to the above address so hopefully someone could put you through to someone who knows what the score is with Kinshasa Airways!
Your speculations could well be true. I posted a thread on the Middle East forum about Kin Air and its possible Middle Eastern support. The brains behind it all could be Capt Hamad Al Thani and as Treetopflyer pointed out Al Thani was involved in Qatar Airways until 1997 when Qatar Airways MkII was born! Since then he has been responsible for Air Gulf Falcon which has seemed to have changed into Sky Aviation. They were/are involved in Hajj ops and they lent a 747SP to Iraqi Airways a few years ago to kickstart domestic ops, the aircraft is now back! The majority of the fleet if not all of it are registered in Swaziland. More recently Al Thani is behind a new venture called Sprit of Africa, which is going to operate (I guess) 747-200s under the Sudanese register. He is also involved in Blue Air Leasing – don’t know very much about them but they advertise every week in Flight! The telephone number in the advert has a SHJ telephone number, surprise surprise!!!
An advert for crews for Sprit of Africa was placed in Flight a few weeks before the Kin Air advert was published. The interesting point is the advert for Sprit of Africa is identical to the advert that was placed in Flight for Kin Air. Identical layout, font and more importantly the same address in SHJ was used. Obviously different types for the two different companies but there did seem to be a distinct similarity, which caught my eye instantly!
Don't know what to make of it. My first impression was that like Swaziland and Sudan, the Congo would be a flag of convieniece to operate ad hoc DC-8 ops????
Very interesting stuff folks. If anyone does apply then keep us posted. I am certainly very interested on how this new set up will progress.
Cheers!
Edited to include the address for those who may be interested. I don't have the copy of Flight to hand but I am 99.9% sure that this is the same address
PO Box 8153
SAIF Zone
Sharjah
UAE
The Tel number for Falcon Air Leasing/Air Gulf Falcon is +971 6 5570515 with the fax being the same as well. That number is listed to the above address so hopefully someone could put you through to someone who knows what the score is with Kinshasa Airways!
Last edited by Mister Geezer; 18th Nov 2002 at 23:13.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: over the moon
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kinshasa Airways / Blue Air Leasing
I dredged this old thread from the archives.
I see that they are again advertising on Flight International for DC-8, 727, 707 crews.
Add is for Kinshasa Airways, cv's to Blue Air Leasing, Sharjah.
Has there been any activity in the last 12 months, or is it still a start up?
Any info muchly appreciated;
thanks
I see that they are again advertising on Flight International for DC-8, 727, 707 crews.
Add is for Kinshasa Airways, cv's to Blue Air Leasing, Sharjah.
Has there been any activity in the last 12 months, or is it still a start up?
Any info muchly appreciated;
thanks
