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LAM Mozambique flight crashed...

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.

LAM Mozambique flight crashed...

Old 22nd Dec 2013, 15:16
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ZFT View Post
The obvious answer to this 'problem' is of course 3 man flight deck crews, but of course that will not or can't happen for a multitude of reasons.
True, but what can happen (and does happen with some operators) is that whenever a crew member leaves the cockpit for a toilet break, a flight attendant then comes in to the cockpit to accompany the remaining crew member. Although the flight attendant wouldn't be expected to take control at any stage, he/she can at least be there to unlock the door to allow the other fight deck crew back in to the cockpit. IMHO, this should be standard procedure to prevent something like this from happening again.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 15:23
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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This overlooks the way things are done in Africa. It is for a reason that LAM (and I believe TAAG and many other African airlines) are banned from EU airspace.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 15:40
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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...prevent something like this from happening again
In all fairness, I think there is very little that can be done in the cramped cockpit environment to prevent a crash if the mind of one pilot at the controls is set on it. Egypt Air 990 is a good example. Prevention should be outside the cockpit, making sure that someone unfit for flight never gets the opportunity to be at the controls.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 15:56
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Not new

190Warrior One of the earliest examples in living memory was Egypt Air Flight 990


EgyptAir Flight 990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 16:01
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GobonaStick
Easier said.
Agree entirely. My point was that even less can be done once airborne and said individual is sitting strapped in at either of the front seats. Even from the jump seat there are several things one can do to cause unrecoverable out-of control at a critical phase of flight.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 16:31
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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You have to be realistic and not dreaming of impossible scenarios has to counteract this kind of action
There are people who commit suicide properly (they kill themself only) and others by example open the gas committing suicide and kill all the other inhabitants of the building
When a person mentally disturbed wants to kill herself she will at all times and eliminate those that would prevent her action
The second pilot shall be on the flightdeck and been neutralized by the other crazy pilot (stabbing is easy)
It was just an exeptional event ... and no rules will change because that
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 17:29
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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The Namibian police this week identified nine bodies, after examining 609 human remains recovered from the site of the Mozambique plane crash.

- See more at: The Namibian - Pilot to blame for Mozambican plane crash (News | Namibia)
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 18:27
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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My point was that even less can be done once airborne and said individual is sitting strapped in at either of the front seats. Even from the jump seat there are several things one can do to cause unrecoverable out-of control at a critical phase of flight.
I agree.
You would have to have quite a few people in the cockpit who would actually have to overpower the suicidal pilot to prevent such accidents. Another pilot is not enough.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 18:48
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed that a pilot determined to crash can likely accomplish it with somebody in the adjacent seat; however, there's certain psychological barriers when there's somebody you know sitting next to you and putting up a racket -- and likely taking a whack at you with whatever comes to hand.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 19:43
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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So according to that portuguese "rumor" which was mostly ignored here, the pilot's son committed suicide, he tried the same, and his wife left him, then he crashed the plane. As the rumor apparently got the latter part mostly right, maybe they are right about the preconditions: This sounds like dumb HR, a management issue and not a cabin lock issue.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 23:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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One of the earliest examples in living memory was Egypt Air Flight 990
Egypt Air 990 happened in 1999. An earlier example I can think of was a Japan Airlines DC8 in 1982 which was deliberately crashed by the Captain who put two of the 4 engines into reverse thrust on approach.

Seiji Katagiri | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 00:31
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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What kind of a degenerate has to take another 32 innocent lives with him to commit suicide.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 01:09
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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What kind of a degenerate
I dunno ...
it is that which appears in the means of transport .. this kind of suicide causing innocent victims happens more often in civil aviation ..than in road transport (coach) or railroad !!
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 02:16
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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jcjeant:


I dunno ...
it is that which appears in the means of transport .. this kind of suicide causing innocent victims happens more often in civil aviation ..than in road transport (coach) or railroad !!
Has it happened on a European, U.S., or Oz/NZ scheduled air carrier?
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 02:41
  #135 (permalink)  
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Silk Air 185
Helios 522?
Egypt 990?
You are forgeting the most famous "suicide one"...RAM ATR in Atlas.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 03:05
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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I do not think suicidal pilots would do this if they could do this without passengers. Even As crazy as they are they would rather do a solo flight.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 03:05
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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What kind of a degenerate?

What kind of a degenerate has to take another 32 innocent lives with him to commit suicide.
Well, what kind of degenerate shoots up an elementary school (or high school or college) before committing suicide? (e.g., Sandy Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech)

Or plants a bomb aboard a plane, on which his mother is a passenger, to collect insurance money? (UAL 629)

Attacks the flight crew with a hammer (FedEx 705) -- or shoots the pilots (PAL 773) -- hoping to crash the plane and make it look like an accident so his family will collect life insurance?

Or suicidal and seeking revenge on his former supervisor and employer, shoots that supervisor and the pilots, crashing the plane? (PSA 1771)

No shortage of such degenerates here in the good old USA.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 06:57
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Call it what it is: murder.

In defence of the locked flight deck door, it contributed to the safe return of QF1737 when a delusional passenger attempted a mass murder/suicide.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 07:19
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Passenger 389
Well said !
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 08:15
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Now the Helios crash in Greece was suicide? Are you people ok?
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