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LAM Mozambique flight crashed...

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.

LAM Mozambique flight crashed...

Old 20th Dec 2013, 10:45
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Did some research on this possible suicide and found this on Facebook. It is written in Portugese and translated by Google.

It seems the captain on this flight went to his manager two days before the fatal flight and asked to be replaced because he was not fit to fly. He had problems in the relationshipo with his wife. LAM refused to substitute the captain. His wife left him 15 days before the crash. The reason for not substitute is unclear because of not very good translation of Portugese language. Maybe someone can translate.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/1909...8086184557402/

TM470 flight to Luanda was purposeful by the pilot making so its suicide! According to sources anonymous pilot or flight commander is TM470 had a son who committed suicide in the month of November last year, and that the flight comandate TM470 recently attempted suicide and had psychological problems, yet LAM left continue to fly, which was abandoned by his wife 15 days before the accident had a inclusivee DISCUSSION her not night before the flight, and the voice data recorder quee (Registration voice box) prove that the commander Aircraft asked the copilot to go perform a task outside of the cockpit and then locked the door and directed the aircraft flight TM470 to crash, leading to death of all passengers and tripulantees! that truth hidden by the rear doors on the cabinets investigaçaao ocorridoo acidentee
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Old 20th Dec 2013, 12:22
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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At December 16 only 7 of the 33 bodies have been identified according this article of a Mozambique website.

Milhares de pessoas prestaram homenagem às vítimas do TM 470 em Maputo
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Old 20th Dec 2013, 12:49
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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The suicide theory sounds like another wild conspiracy theory / rumour being spread on social media.

It makes no logical sense, a suicide would have hit the ground nose down and fast rather than level and slow.

In the absence of an official interim report we should treat this one with maximum scepticism.
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Old 20th Dec 2013, 13:34
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing is certain unless it is certain. Suicide is one of the possible scenario's and cannot be ruled out. Mechanical and electrical causes, bomb and sabotage are ruled out now.

We have to wait a few more days untill the preliminary report has been made public. I believe this report is scheduled at the end of this month. We might know more then.
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Old 21st Dec 2013, 21:39
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Suicide seems the most likely cause at this point:

On Dec 21st 2013 Mozambique's Civil Aviation Authority reported in a press conference (the preliminary report has not yet been released by Namibia's Accident Investigation Commission), that cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder revealed, that the captain was alone on the flight deck, banging on the flight deck door could be heard on the cockpit voice recorder. The autoflight systems (autothrottle and autopilot) were engaged. There were sounds and clicks consistent with a person knowledgeable of the aircraft systems commanding the engines to idle thrust and selecting the autoflight systems into a descent at 6000 feet per minute. Numerous warnings and alerts were not responded to.

By the way, suicide is not a 'conspiracy' theory, had happened before a few times. And there is absolutely no justification in making assertion purely on the looks of the ground scar that the flight was 'slow and level' when hitting the ground.

Crash: LAM E190 over Botswana/Namibia on Nov 29th 2013, captain intentionally crashed aircraft
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Old 21st Dec 2013, 23:19
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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some additional details taken from here

Mozambique airline captain 'intentionally' crashed: probe

Abreu told a news conference that Dos Santos Fernandes locked himself inside the cockpit, ignored warning signals and did not allow his co-pilot back in moments before the Embraer 190 hit the ground.

"During these actions you can hear low and high-intensity alarm signals and repeated beating against the door with demands to come into the cockpit," he was quoted as saying by state news agency AIM.

The altitude was manually changed three times from 38,000 feet to 592 feet -- below ground level -- and the aircraft's speed was also changed manually, according to the preliminary report.

Airbrake parameters showed the spoilers, aerodynamic resistance plates on the wings, were deployed and held in that position until the end of the recordings, which proved the throttle was manually controlled.

"The plane fell with the pilot alert and the reasons which may have given rise to this behaviour are unknown. At the time, the co-pilot had left the cockpit and was absent while everything happened," said Abreu.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 00:11
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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went to his manager two days before the fatal flight and asked to be replaced because he was not fit to fly.
If true they should crucify this manager, pilot reports he is not fit to fly and this as**ole still puts him behind the controls. He could be a shopping center manager but has no business in the field when human factors are so critical and fragile.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 04:29
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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BBC news reporting on LAM suicide claim this morning.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 06:16
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Quite possibly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard in over 10 years flying. Part of me still doesn't want to believe its true
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 11:51
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Assuming the suicide theory is true, this presumably could be an example of where anti-terrorism locking cockpit doors might have contributed to this accident - and could do again. Is there any way crew can open a cockpit security door from the cabin? Even if the detail is not made public on this forum, for obvious reasons! If not should there be?
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 12:15
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to a speciality of this part of the world. About 15 years ago an Air Botswana pilot on a suicide mission kamikazied his aircraft onto the tarmac at Gabs and wiped out the rest of the carrier's fleet.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 12:24
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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There is an emergency opening code, but it only works with a delay and if it is not countered from within. If there is someone inside who does not want the door to be opened, then the door will do what it was designed for.

Balance so far of this brilliant idea:
Fatal accidents (where locked door a likely contributing cause): 2
Fatalities: 154
Cost to airline industry: $2billion
Prevented incidents: 0
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 12:40
  #113 (permalink)  
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Fatal accidents (where locked door a likely contributing cause): 2
Unfortunately more

This one
Silk Air 185
Helios 522?
Egypt 990?

Of course even before the locked doors were other awful cases. Royal Air Morac and Air Botswana, both ATRs ironically spring to mind.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 13:07
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Silk Air and Egypt Air both happened before the reinforced cockpit door became mandatory. In Helios it was a likely contributing cause, and certainly was the case now. Sad to see how 10+ years ago this was clearly predicted by those who know something about the industry...
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 13:12
  #115 (permalink)  
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andrasz,

I'm sure you are right. Worrying where time goes
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 13:53
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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If he preplanned the event, surely mass murder is a more apt description of his actions?
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 13:54
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Yes but why would a flight attendant not replace the co pilot so ensuring 2 up front

Airline managers also at fault?
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 14:04
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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This would point to a certain conclusion indeed. But I doubt any regulating authority will let common sense get in the way of constant fear mongering: those nasty turrists are hiding behind every bush and any trolley in the aircraft and just waiting for the guards to be let down...

It is obvious that the reinforced cockpit door has been contributing to many total losses. But seeing the general climate of using some "war against terrorism" as the sole raison d´être for anything security related (including the whole secret service affaire at the moment), I already hear the choir shout "Many attacks have been thwarted by this doors presence". Be it true or not, it is impossible to prove the opposite, and I am afraid that no authority would be prepared to take the responsibility in case of a repeat of those hijackings of 2001.

So whether one likes it or not and leaving aside any common sense, those doors are likely here to stay and those souls that perished in the above mentioned accidents and the one in question as well are apparently just acceptable corollary damage in a greater game.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 14:10
  #119 (permalink)  
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The obvious answer to this 'problem' is of course 3 man flight deck crews, but of course that will not or can't happen for a multitude of reasons.
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 14:15
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Even before the "reinforced door" the door could be locked (and who knows how quickly the key could be found if at all) and, certainly Boeings, also have a simple mechanical deadlock that could not be defeated from outside.

I spent a period flying for a carrier in which the ability of my colleagues was (to be polite) "questionable" & always left the door unlocked when nipping out, on the basis that (flying over Africa at night with virtually no pax on board, & those anyhow asleep ) it was the lesser of the 2 dangers.

I always think that we should all adopt the "pilot absent must be replaced by a CC " rule. . . . . the thought of a pilot incapacitation/falling onto the controls, or rapid decompression, or severe turbulence in which the sole occupant is knocked out & also falls onto control column, or something mundane like choking on a bit of food being troughed whilst the other guy is back having a leak, to name but 4 scenarios, warrants an industry wide adoption of some back-up I feel, but very few companies mandate it.
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