C210 turbo ferry from Italy to Tanzania
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C210 turbo ferry from Italy to Tanzania
In about a month we are due to ferry the plane to Tanzania...
Our intended route would be crete, egypt,eritrea,djibouti,kenya...
Please any advice is welcomed... best airport to stop at in order to find assistance and 100 LL, major problems to face, weather related issues, best option... our aircraft is due to have 5 hours endurance... thanks in advance
Our intended route would be crete, egypt,eritrea,djibouti,kenya...
Please any advice is welcomed... best airport to stop at in order to find assistance and 100 LL, major problems to face, weather related issues, best option... our aircraft is due to have 5 hours endurance... thanks in advance
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djibouti to kenya direct? hoping you forgot to add addis in there... 
on other matters, carry lots of USD. Both large bills and small bills. People around here are famous for demanding pay in US and not having change
on other matters, carry lots of USD. Both large bills and small bills. People around here are famous for demanding pay in US and not having change
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I have routed through Egypt both N and S bound with C210, C340 and C 421 but this was some years ago when the supply of avgas was variable.
Keep ALL of the big bills out of sight and distribute the cash around various pockets so you don't show a wad of $100s.
If you route through Alex then I always found that the first guy on the scene was Mr fixit, show him $10 note and say you need to be filed, fueled and airborne within 30 min. If he agrees tear it in half and say he can have the other half just as you close the door and ready to go.
You will recognise the guy if his open gambit is Welcome Captain I remember the last time you visited and you were a most generous Captain!
I then used to route to Luxor and always avoided Cairo. My route after was Khartoum but I don't think that is now an option.
Always wear 3 to 4 stripe epaulents if you don't then you can really get stuck landslide. If you are not a proper Captain then take this as authority for a one off upgrade.
No photos or cameras on the airport.
Safe flight.
Keep ALL of the big bills out of sight and distribute the cash around various pockets so you don't show a wad of $100s.
If you route through Alex then I always found that the first guy on the scene was Mr fixit, show him $10 note and say you need to be filed, fueled and airborne within 30 min. If he agrees tear it in half and say he can have the other half just as you close the door and ready to go.
You will recognise the guy if his open gambit is Welcome Captain I remember the last time you visited and you were a most generous Captain!
I then used to route to Luxor and always avoided Cairo. My route after was Khartoum but I don't think that is now an option.
Always wear 3 to 4 stripe epaulents if you don't then you can really get stuck landslide. If you are not a proper Captain then take this as authority for a one off upgrade.
No photos or cameras on the airport.
Safe flight.
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ferry flight
Hi,
Last time I did it I went Iraklion - Luxor - Djibouti - Uganda and onwards.
I've never had success getting clearance into Eritrea. The time before I didn't have the range and had to go to Jeddah for avgas (about $5.00/Lt) in between Luxor and Djibouti.
AN aviation are good in Luxor. +20 109 8304309
Make sure your dollars are all 2004 and newer (might be 2006 by now), if they have a policy of not taking old notes, they just will not take them.
Enjoy.
Last time I did it I went Iraklion - Luxor - Djibouti - Uganda and onwards.
I've never had success getting clearance into Eritrea. The time before I didn't have the range and had to go to Jeddah for avgas (about $5.00/Lt) in between Luxor and Djibouti.
AN aviation are good in Luxor. +20 109 8304309
Make sure your dollars are all 2004 and newer (might be 2006 by now), if they have a policy of not taking old notes, they just will not take them.
Enjoy.
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Lots of good advice coming out here. Definitely agree with the US Dollar advice - but make sure any notes are year 2000 or earlier - it used to be 1996 notes and older that would be rejected, but now it is also pre-2000 notes that give problems. So new notes are essential. Lots of denominations too - or you will 'lose' money on change not being available.
As for the route, you need to do the research on where there is a reliable Avgas source. Khartoum, Luxor and Cairo have fuel but check its there when you need it. A friend had a problem coming through Egypt and when he landed, the Avgas wasn't there on that day "but was coming soon". Cost him a day's delay.
Eritrea and Ethiopia aren't friends, so transiting between one and the other is sometimes a clearance issue.
There's lots of very dry, very empty areas to overfly - make sure you have water & provisions for all emergencies. You might also be out of radio coverage with anyone useful for long periods, which upsets many people. Usually not such a problem with ATC as long as you make contact when you can.
There are a number of restricted areas on this type of route - no overflying presidential palaces, dams, reservoirs, military training areas etc It really upsets the local government/police to have small planes down low over such areas. So check these out before you get in trouble.
Epaulettes around airports are extremely useful passport to get through most issues. Visas and appropriate overflight/landing clearances definitely!! And lots of General Declarations/Manifests to hand out like confetti to any airport official that requires them. If in doubt, give out a manifest. Some places require six or even 8 copies before they're satisfied.
Weather: We're getting towards the rainy season in East Africa. This can be dramatic thunderstorms but generally short lived CB's which you can mostly get around or delay to avoid. Its not frontal weather but isolated or embedded storms, but not to be messed around in a small light aircraft. They reach 40,000' and build really quickly so don't plan to go over developments - go around. The major weather phenomena is the ITCZ which is in South Sudan/North Kenya heading south at the moment. Low level jetstream can be your best friend in these areas - adds 15kts sometimes if you catch it.
Avgas in north Kenya is not readily available. Fuel supplies can be few and far between. Alternates are distressingly far away when things go wrong. Another friend thought he had fuel arranged in Lokki through MAF but it wasn't the case. Until he got it sorted, he was in quite a sweat - there's no where else to go!!
What else do you need to know? Ask away - I'm sure there's lots of useful advice out there! Good luck with it - a great thing to do and worth lots of memories/photos for the grand kids....
As for the route, you need to do the research on where there is a reliable Avgas source. Khartoum, Luxor and Cairo have fuel but check its there when you need it. A friend had a problem coming through Egypt and when he landed, the Avgas wasn't there on that day "but was coming soon". Cost him a day's delay.
Eritrea and Ethiopia aren't friends, so transiting between one and the other is sometimes a clearance issue.
There's lots of very dry, very empty areas to overfly - make sure you have water & provisions for all emergencies. You might also be out of radio coverage with anyone useful for long periods, which upsets many people. Usually not such a problem with ATC as long as you make contact when you can.
There are a number of restricted areas on this type of route - no overflying presidential palaces, dams, reservoirs, military training areas etc It really upsets the local government/police to have small planes down low over such areas. So check these out before you get in trouble.
Epaulettes around airports are extremely useful passport to get through most issues. Visas and appropriate overflight/landing clearances definitely!! And lots of General Declarations/Manifests to hand out like confetti to any airport official that requires them. If in doubt, give out a manifest. Some places require six or even 8 copies before they're satisfied.
Weather: We're getting towards the rainy season in East Africa. This can be dramatic thunderstorms but generally short lived CB's which you can mostly get around or delay to avoid. Its not frontal weather but isolated or embedded storms, but not to be messed around in a small light aircraft. They reach 40,000' and build really quickly so don't plan to go over developments - go around. The major weather phenomena is the ITCZ which is in South Sudan/North Kenya heading south at the moment. Low level jetstream can be your best friend in these areas - adds 15kts sometimes if you catch it.
Avgas in north Kenya is not readily available. Fuel supplies can be few and far between. Alternates are distressingly far away when things go wrong. Another friend thought he had fuel arranged in Lokki through MAF but it wasn't the case. Until he got it sorted, he was in quite a sweat - there's no where else to go!!
What else do you need to know? Ask away - I'm sure there's lots of useful advice out there! Good luck with it - a great thing to do and worth lots of memories/photos for the grand kids....
Having just been thru Egypt and Saudi I can confirm avgas costs
In Aswan we paid $US6 per litre and took 900 litres, ryiadh was $US5.85 and took forever to get.
For clearance I would suggest you talk to Mike Gray from White Rose in the UK, his rates are reasonable and he works for you, not just take the money and run.
With regard to currency the comments are right take NEW $100 USD bills, the reason they won't take old curency is that the naughty North Koreas printed a whole heap of these years ago and they are floating around Asia and the Middle East.
Also take generic souviners from your country. In my case we took small kolas bears and Kangaroos, it will save you a fortune in bribes as everyone has children and they are more valued than small amounts of cash.
Have fun with the ferry and remember when you land somewhere it is their country and their ways so just be polite count to ten and go with the flow.
In Aswan we paid $US6 per litre and took 900 litres, ryiadh was $US5.85 and took forever to get.
For clearance I would suggest you talk to Mike Gray from White Rose in the UK, his rates are reasonable and he works for you, not just take the money and run.
With regard to currency the comments are right take NEW $100 USD bills, the reason they won't take old curency is that the naughty North Koreas printed a whole heap of these years ago and they are floating around Asia and the Middle East.
Also take generic souviners from your country. In my case we took small kolas bears and Kangaroos, it will save you a fortune in bribes as everyone has children and they are more valued than small amounts of cash.
Have fun with the ferry and remember when you land somewhere it is their country and their ways so just be polite count to ten and go with the flow.
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I've done the ferry in a T210 as well, but from UK to Cape Town. A 120gal ferry tank was well worth it! And a hand-pump for avgas in drums.
Be prepared to have a new one ripped in handling fees in Luxor. Jepp Trip Kit is a good investment, as is having MH aviation sort out all your clearances.
Emergency supplies and a sat phone most definitely required (SEP bumbling it's way between Khartoum and Luxor, not to mention crossing the Med... Hmmm)
Be prepared to have a new one ripped in handling fees in Luxor. Jepp Trip Kit is a good investment, as is having MH aviation sort out all your clearances.
Emergency supplies and a sat phone most definitely required (SEP bumbling it's way between Khartoum and Luxor, not to mention crossing the Med... Hmmm)
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@dhavillandpilot
6 USD / LITRE at Aswan !!!!!!
That's a RIP OFF !
AVGAS in Egypt is 5.30 USD at HEOC/HEAR and 4 USD at Aswan !
How much did you pay for handling at HESN and what was your MTOW ?!
6 USD / LITRE at Aswan !!!!!!
That's a RIP OFF !
AVGAS in Egypt is 5.30 USD at HEOC/HEAR and 4 USD at Aswan !
How much did you pay for handling at HESN and what was your MTOW ?!
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I see there is a fair bit of out of date information here as well as mis-direction. I can agree with SU-GCM about the fuel in Aswan and at HEOC and HEAR (although HEAR is no go because of the insurgency there). There is no avgas at ANY other airport in Egypt unless you pay extortionate prices to have it shipped in a barrel of 200 litres which you must pay for all the barrel even if only using half.
There is no VFR in Egypt as minimum altitude is 8,500ft and you will fly on airways as IFR or CVFR.
We regularly arrange flights through this part of Africa and have 3 on the go now, all from Europe heading to Sudan, Tanzania and South Africa.
Our previous flights have not experienced half the problems mentioned here and I blame naievity because the same names keep coming up for bad service but always being reccomended?
AN aviation may do the job ok, but there prices are rip offs and the extras they seem to find are always a shock. We use reliable handlers all through Africa and arrange discounts where we can and always check the rules to see where we can save the pilot any extras.
We have never had bad feedback, quite the opposite, and this is because we care about the pilots and their aircraft and have a massive volunteer system of professionals who feel the same and who are fed up of the GA pilot being ripped off by companies in Africa and abroad who care more about the money.
Our original aim was to improve GA in Egypt and we have been very succesfull in doing that, but a pilot won't notice that if they keep using the same old companies who are happy to rip them off or give them bad service, just because they are there doesn't mean they are the best.
So, Scubashooters, send us a line and just see what we can offer before jumping on the bandwagon to use 'old favourites' because otherwise we are sure to read about more poor services and overpricing when you report on your trip.
email us at [email protected] or visit our website at www.gasupportegypt.com and check our Facebook page to see our latest flight in action at www.facebook.com/aviationegypt
Either way, have a great flight
There is no VFR in Egypt as minimum altitude is 8,500ft and you will fly on airways as IFR or CVFR.
We regularly arrange flights through this part of Africa and have 3 on the go now, all from Europe heading to Sudan, Tanzania and South Africa.
Our previous flights have not experienced half the problems mentioned here and I blame naievity because the same names keep coming up for bad service but always being reccomended?
AN aviation may do the job ok, but there prices are rip offs and the extras they seem to find are always a shock. We use reliable handlers all through Africa and arrange discounts where we can and always check the rules to see where we can save the pilot any extras.
We have never had bad feedback, quite the opposite, and this is because we care about the pilots and their aircraft and have a massive volunteer system of professionals who feel the same and who are fed up of the GA pilot being ripped off by companies in Africa and abroad who care more about the money.
Our original aim was to improve GA in Egypt and we have been very succesfull in doing that, but a pilot won't notice that if they keep using the same old companies who are happy to rip them off or give them bad service, just because they are there doesn't mean they are the best.
So, Scubashooters, send us a line and just see what we can offer before jumping on the bandwagon to use 'old favourites' because otherwise we are sure to read about more poor services and overpricing when you report on your trip.
email us at [email protected] or visit our website at www.gasupportegypt.com and check our Facebook page to see our latest flight in action at www.facebook.com/aviationegypt
Either way, have a great flight
To those reading this thread, the fuel in Aswan was unbelievable.
The handling agent ordered it, when it arrived it was in a Egyptian Air Force fuel truck. The rate was non negotiable, cash only and I had to pay a senior military officer in CASH often wondered how much actually went to the Supplier.
BUT there is no alternative if you schedule thru Egypt.
I have now discovered Acaba in Jordon is easier and cheaper.
The handling agent ordered it, when it arrived it was in a Egyptian Air Force fuel truck. The rate was non negotiable, cash only and I had to pay a senior military officer in CASH often wondered how much actually went to the Supplier.
BUT there is no alternative if you schedule thru Egypt.
I have now discovered Acaba in Jordon is easier and cheaper.
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I am sorry to say that you were ripped off. I also know who by. We use the same service, in fact we were the only ones who arranged this service back in 2012 when Luxor went dry of avgas (before a competitor learnt our secrets and started charging $6 a litre).
Our last pilot went through Aswan a week ago and the price was $4 a litre.
This pilot used G.A.S.E.'s services which also included excellent handling with a final bill of $400 (not counting fuel) and personal service off airfield by our contact there. G.A.S.E. does not charge for any of its services in Egypt.
We know other agencies charge $6+ for fuel at Aswan and that is the point...you will be ripped off if you use other agencies and that makes it the fault of the people who reccomend these agencies to you. Obviouslu you didn't know about us but those are the facts. We aim to help pilots and not to see them ripped off by companies here (Egypt) or abroad.
Our last pilot went through Aswan a week ago and the price was $4 a litre.
This pilot used G.A.S.E.'s services which also included excellent handling with a final bill of $400 (not counting fuel) and personal service off airfield by our contact there. G.A.S.E. does not charge for any of its services in Egypt.
We know other agencies charge $6+ for fuel at Aswan and that is the point...you will be ripped off if you use other agencies and that makes it the fault of the people who reccomend these agencies to you. Obviouslu you didn't know about us but those are the facts. We aim to help pilots and not to see them ripped off by companies here (Egypt) or abroad.
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Mission accomplished!!!
Hi guys!!!
Sorry for missing all your kind advices!!! As per title, the mission has been accomplished and OEDOX now safely sits in Dodoma!!!
The GASE assistance was great and I can see that many of your directions are really useful nonetheless... for instance the hand fuel pump for drums... If we had one with us we could have saved many hours and many... litres of avgas on the ground!!!!
... in Aswan situation is as described... military truck , fuel extremely expensive , no other option.... we had to face a somehow big problem in Juba... we advance paid a drum of fuel to a man from Entebbe and the drum was supposed to come via truck from Entebbe to Juba and delivered to us... We landed in juba and the agent didn't even know that we where expecting a drum of fuel... UN accorded to sell us the fuel ( but we could have also gone with Mogas in jerry cans if needed )...
I read about the weather problems between SSudan and North Kenya... well guys, do you have a personal weather satellite??? That's exactly where we met the storms!!! Three (3) hours of zigzagging to avoid them, one after the other were possible only because our centurion has a WX radar, basic but essential in this situation and without it we could have never flown that sector... ( glad I didn't read the post before departure so I didn't know what to expect there!!!! )...
Once again, thanks all for your participation and suggestions, I appreciated them a lot!!! If anybody needs any "fresh" information just ask and I will be more than glad to answer and share what I have learned during this 6 days trip!!!
Thanks!!!!
Sorry for missing all your kind advices!!! As per title, the mission has been accomplished and OEDOX now safely sits in Dodoma!!!
The GASE assistance was great and I can see that many of your directions are really useful nonetheless... for instance the hand fuel pump for drums... If we had one with us we could have saved many hours and many... litres of avgas on the ground!!!!
... in Aswan situation is as described... military truck , fuel extremely expensive , no other option.... we had to face a somehow big problem in Juba... we advance paid a drum of fuel to a man from Entebbe and the drum was supposed to come via truck from Entebbe to Juba and delivered to us... We landed in juba and the agent didn't even know that we where expecting a drum of fuel... UN accorded to sell us the fuel ( but we could have also gone with Mogas in jerry cans if needed )...I read about the weather problems between SSudan and North Kenya... well guys, do you have a personal weather satellite??? That's exactly where we met the storms!!! Three (3) hours of zigzagging to avoid them, one after the other were possible only because our centurion has a WX radar, basic but essential in this situation and without it we could have never flown that sector... ( glad I didn't read the post before departure so I didn't know what to expect there!!!!
)...Once again, thanks all for your participation and suggestions, I appreciated them a lot!!! If anybody needs any "fresh" information just ask and I will be more than glad to answer and share what I have learned during this 6 days trip!!!
Thanks!!!!
I thought it just happened yesterday eve...
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Bad flight planning... and guy doest know how to use a GPS... other planes on the radio were trying to help him... gave him coords but he couldn't find the strip... they were describing the terrain nearby... he put in the wrong coordinates. Fools like that shouldnt be flying people around... he's lucky he didn't kill anyone
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Oh Egypt
In 2003 I ferried a Navajo from USA to Tanzania, My last leg before hitting African continent was out of Larnaca,Cyprus and I flew past Egypt to Khartoum direct, it wasn't pretty at all and was a very long leg at GS of 198kts speed, but compare to the hussle and hell I could have gone thru in the land of bakshish.....it was worth the pain.
Thanks to the long range tanks fitted in Lakeland, Flo. I had 12hrs endurance....
In Short all advice given by fellow pilots is true and valid, Its been 10years for me, but after reading the thread, I feels like it was yeasterday
All the Best.....
Thanks to the long range tanks fitted in Lakeland, Flo. I had 12hrs endurance....
In Short all advice given by fellow pilots is true and valid, Its been 10years for me, but after reading the thread, I feels like it was yeasterday
All the Best.....
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Thanks
Again I would like to thanks everybody for the precious advices given... They have been so important... No, OEDOX wasn't the one that crashed luckily, but I perfectly understand what you mean when you say that you need GPS down there and must have some skill at using it!!! What I have learned in that week of pure flying is that Africa is a SERIOUS thing and flying there requires a lot of attention, planning ahead , right instrumentation and some skill too!!!
I wish I can do again in future such an amazing trip because it is something that I will never ever forget!!!
I wish I can do again in future such an amazing trip because it is something that I will never ever forget!!!
