Two Albatross Aircraft Missing Tzaneen.
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Very Sad day!!!!!
Category: National NewsDate Added: 16 August 2011The names have been released of those who died when two Albatross aircraft crashed into a mountain near Tzaneen on Sunday.
The wrecks were located this morning.
The deceased were:
* Brian Gruar - Pilot of 1st Aircraft - from Johannesburg
* Kevin Woolacott - Air Show Co-ordinator/Capital Sound - from Durban
* Frans Dely - aviation photographer from Cape Town
* Marianne Anderson - Brian Gruar's partner - Jhb
* Madison Doak - niece of Anderson - from Jhb
* Alexandra Doak - niece of Anderson - from Jhb
* Tess Spence - wife of airline/arobatic pilot Dennis Spence
* Louisa Warden - wife of jet display pilot Glen Warden - Jhb
* Peter Geldenhuis - Pilot of 2nd Aircraft Pilot - Jhb
* Peter Oldenborgh - Geldenhuis' co-pilot - Jhb
* Stewart Oldenborgh- Peter's son, a Grade 9 pupil at Grahamstown's St. Andrews College
* Maritjie de Wet - Girlfriend of Peter Geldenhuis - Jhb
* Linda Pearce - Fiancé of African Pilot Magazine Editor, Athol Frans. Jhb
The wrecks were located this morning.
The deceased were:
* Brian Gruar - Pilot of 1st Aircraft - from Johannesburg
* Kevin Woolacott - Air Show Co-ordinator/Capital Sound - from Durban
* Frans Dely - aviation photographer from Cape Town
* Marianne Anderson - Brian Gruar's partner - Jhb
* Madison Doak - niece of Anderson - from Jhb
* Alexandra Doak - niece of Anderson - from Jhb
* Tess Spence - wife of airline/arobatic pilot Dennis Spence
* Louisa Warden - wife of jet display pilot Glen Warden - Jhb
* Peter Geldenhuis - Pilot of 2nd Aircraft Pilot - Jhb
* Peter Oldenborgh - Geldenhuis' co-pilot - Jhb
* Stewart Oldenborgh- Peter's son, a Grade 9 pupil at Grahamstown's St. Andrews College
* Maritjie de Wet - Girlfriend of Peter Geldenhuis - Jhb
* Linda Pearce - Fiancé of African Pilot Magazine Editor, Athol Frans. Jhb
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If you plot direct line from Tzaneen airport to Momotswiri Peak where they were found they had to climb from 1800 ft elv to 5700 ft elv in 30km. That is 3900 ft climb. Not sure what the speed or climb rate of the Albatross aircraft is. They were found high up according to the reports.
Pitty you can not add the GOOGLE picture of the line from the airport to this site as a picture will tel a million words.
Pitty you can not add the GOOGLE picture of the line from the airport to this site as a picture will tel a million words.
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They give a RoC at sea level of around 1200ft/m. Aircraft ability to outclimb those hills shouldn't have been an issue.
Even at 500ft/m @ 120kts, they would have just been clearing them.
Even at 500ft/m @ 120kts, they would have just been clearing them.
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RIP, My condolences to all concerned.
Sadly this looks like yet another case of gethereitis and busted minimums.
We have all sneaked in under the crud at some time, eventually it WILL kill you. Hopefully people might learn from this tragedy.
Sadly this looks like yet another case of gethereitis and busted minimums.
We have all sneaked in under the crud at some time, eventually it WILL kill you. Hopefully people might learn from this tragedy.
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USSA - dude - you are in the wrong forum: this is PPRUNE where pilots can openly discuss their views on matters of their interest - including speculation.
Concerning this accident, I have no words for comment, just a very heavy gut feeling of maybe even gross negligence
. Very sad to hear this story - condolences to the families and friends.
Concerning this accident, I have no words for comment, just a very heavy gut feeling of maybe even gross negligence
. Very sad to hear this story - condolences to the families and friends.
Whatever the causes..this remains a great tragedy for aviation in South Africa. Condolances to All!!
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To USSA
We'll dear Sir!. Before this becomes another PPrune mudslinging match. I would like to advise you to read my post again. I clearly stated that it was my personal take on things, with absolutely no harm intended. I am a experienced pilot who has flown the same route a number of times, and this is not the first time this has happened in the area. I was merely sketching a scenario based on local knowledge (and often locally practiced procedures), and all prevailing conditions that led to these aircraft to take-off in the first place, and following the route they did. I might add that I could be frighteningly right as the aircraft did hit the mountains close to "the neck" as I previously thought, and it seems that the neck did not have the "the open window" that they were looking for. They then maybe decided to make a left/right turn to go back to point af departure after realizing that they were not going to make it through the gap. They might have been in the clear at the time, but unfortunately the left/right turn took them through a small patch concealing the tops of the left/right wall of the gorge (I say patch because no pilot in his right mind would willingly fly formation with 150m separation into a area of known prolonged IMC conditions).The one pilot had a IFR/or definitely previous IF rating, and was leading another with no IFR rating in marginal weather (that the reason not for climbing in the "hold" after take-off). It is up in the air for anybody to make with my statement what they want. ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS MY TAKE ON THINGS. DO WITH IT WHAT YOU WANT. I'M NOT CONDEMNING OR BLAMING ANYONE. THE ERROR CHAIN STARTED THAT MORNING WHEN THEY OPENED THEIR EYES, AND IT MIGHT AS WELL COULD HAVE BEEN ME, LET'S LEARN FROM THIS!!!.
Thanks for the backing Propellerpilot
Thanks for the backing Propellerpilot
Last edited by piapito; 17th Aug 2011 at 09:07.
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The one pilot had a IFR/or definitely previous IF rating, and was leading another with no IFR rating in marginal weather (that the reason not for climbing in the "hold" after take-off).
This too has the horrible ring of credibility to it!
Flying in formation in marginal VFR (or IMC) begs another question. Is it legal to fly in formation with passengers? It is illegal when conducting commercial flight I know and the fact that it might have occurred here in marginal VFR or IMC conditions raises other questions.
I am assuming (the source of all my serious mistakes) that the flights being conducted were not commercial but one can question the wisdom of conducting such a flight in marginal VFR with passengers whatever the skills of the pilots concerned.
The fact that two aircraft were involved in what appears to be a CFIT accident (crashes occurred within short distance of each other) does seem to point to some sort of formation being flown.
I am not pointing fingers at anybody (before I am flamed). I am just raising some pertinent questions (I hope) in the light of this terrible tragedy.
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Media report quote friends saying they were 'great pilots', 'very experienced' etc.
Maybe if they'd had a little less experience, this wouldn't have happened. Maybe they would have backed off from the potential risk. Maybe some experienced pilots have something to learn from the learners. As always, these lessons apply to me too.
I think Whinerliners summary, while brutally honest (which may have caused the upset response), is certainly a good way of looking at it. That old wisdom of 'how will it look in the accident report?' It's only condescending if you are thinking 'that couldn't happen to me'. It should reinforce our desire to obey the rules.
A terrible, and IMHO seemingly avoidable tragedy if all turns out to be as it appears now. I'm sorry to say that, even though it won't be the last of its kind. This has hit fairly close to home where I work, and all victims have my deepest sympathies.
Maybe if they'd had a little less experience, this wouldn't have happened. Maybe they would have backed off from the potential risk. Maybe some experienced pilots have something to learn from the learners. As always, these lessons apply to me too.
I think Whinerliners summary, while brutally honest (which may have caused the upset response), is certainly a good way of looking at it. That old wisdom of 'how will it look in the accident report?' It's only condescending if you are thinking 'that couldn't happen to me'. It should reinforce our desire to obey the rules.
A terrible, and IMHO seemingly avoidable tragedy if all turns out to be as it appears now. I'm sorry to say that, even though it won't be the last of its kind. This has hit fairly close to home where I work, and all victims have my deepest sympathies.
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Pictures have been released of the crash site and it is horrific. The post-crash fire consumed what was left of the aircraft an there is hardly a recognisable component. Mercifully there was no suffering for anyone on board.
The sad truth is that this was one of around 40 aircraft that departed TZ in IMC conditions for the Highveld that day. I'm not saying that everyone flew illegally but many did. From illustrious airline pilots in their Pitts Specials to PPL's and their 172's. They simply jumped in and headed home. With such reckless disregard accidents become an inevitability.
I don’t need to tell people on this forum how many fatal GA accidents there have been in SA in recent months. Its difficult to imagine how this can improve with such apparent disregard for limitation and regulation. B200Drvr says I simplified so it looks bad, but the reality is that it is far far beyond bad. Less simplified it only gets worse. If you want to take chances do it on your own, not when you have someone else’s 7 year old daughter on board.
The sad truth is that this was one of around 40 aircraft that departed TZ in IMC conditions for the Highveld that day. I'm not saying that everyone flew illegally but many did. From illustrious airline pilots in their Pitts Specials to PPL's and their 172's. They simply jumped in and headed home. With such reckless disregard accidents become an inevitability.
I don’t need to tell people on this forum how many fatal GA accidents there have been in SA in recent months. Its difficult to imagine how this can improve with such apparent disregard for limitation and regulation. B200Drvr says I simplified so it looks bad, but the reality is that it is far far beyond bad. Less simplified it only gets worse. If you want to take chances do it on your own, not when you have someone else’s 7 year old daughter on board.
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Having known Dennis, Tess and Angela for many years after doing his Australian conversion in my GA days I'm deeply saddened by such an avoidable and tragic accident. Many a happy memory of shared BBQs (bries) and dinners.
Our hearts and prayers go out to you Dennis, Angela and everyone on board.
Your friends from Aussie
Shaune and family
Our hearts and prayers go out to you Dennis, Angela and everyone on board.
Your friends from Aussie
Shaune and family
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A few decades ago I saw a VERY good, but simple and hard-hitting, cartoon:
The peak of a hill sticking out of the top of a layer of cloud; a dead tree on the top of that peak; two vultures sitting in that tree. The fin of an aeroplane is just sticking out of the top of the cloud layer, 'Jaws'-like, heading towards the peak with the tree. One vulture is saying: "Here comes our lunch on a VFR flight-plan."
There is a very, very long list of exactly those crashes (difficult to think of them as 'accidents') that I can think of in South Africa since I saw that cartoon. (What are the words from the song 'Where have all the soldiers gone?': "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn...?")
If there have been so many GA accidents in SA, is this somehow related to the very high road fatality rate: just not enough people taking enough care?
Such a pity for all the passengers... and those two old aeroplanes...
The peak of a hill sticking out of the top of a layer of cloud; a dead tree on the top of that peak; two vultures sitting in that tree. The fin of an aeroplane is just sticking out of the top of the cloud layer, 'Jaws'-like, heading towards the peak with the tree. One vulture is saying: "Here comes our lunch on a VFR flight-plan."
There is a very, very long list of exactly those crashes (difficult to think of them as 'accidents') that I can think of in South Africa since I saw that cartoon. (What are the words from the song 'Where have all the soldiers gone?': "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn...?")
If there have been so many GA accidents in SA, is this somehow related to the very high road fatality rate: just not enough people taking enough care?
Such a pity for all the passengers... and those two old aeroplanes...
Last edited by Trossie; 18th Aug 2011 at 12:46. Reason: Spelling...
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Lack of enforcement.
"I got through without problems plenty of times before, nothing can possibly happen to me"
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
"I got through without problems plenty of times before, nothing can possibly happen to me"
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
This is a truly shocking tragedy , not just any old PPL having a bad day , but from what I read , highly ' experienced ' and highly ' respected ' pilots and lots of aviation minded people on board , children whose parents were quite happy to let them fly with trusted friends .
Made me think of the Mt Kenya tragedy a few years back , totally avoidable - many of us managed to fly around it for countless years , but they ( the crew ) managed to poo-poo all advice from the Kenya boys about their proposed flight .
I was a ' bushbaby ' for many years in my youth , frightened myself more than a few times , woke up , and decided ' no more risks ' , told my pilots ( when I was chief pilot of Air Kenya Malindi ) that I would not tolerate any risk-taking , and that if they could not maintain VFR , they should return / avoid / divert , whatever required , with no risk to their status . Sadly , this pressure from the bosses had led to many accidents before.
I am pleased , and proud , that on my watch , nobody suffered a scratch .
Obviously , I am talking about the old days , no GPS , no autopilots , no radar ,maps that were useless . This has all changed now .
This is what makes the Tzaneen tragedy so appalling . How the hell did it happen ?
Please guys and girls , anybody out there in African aviation - you are NEVER immortal , NEVER perfect , most of Africa is a hostile environment in which to fly , do not make it easy for the Grim Reaper.
Take care up there.
This is a truly shocking tragedy , not just any old PPL having a bad day , but from what I read , highly ' experienced ' and highly ' respected ' pilots and lots of aviation minded people on board , children whose parents were quite happy to let them fly with trusted friends .
Made me think of the Mt Kenya tragedy a few years back , totally avoidable - many of us managed to fly around it for countless years , but they ( the crew ) managed to poo-poo all advice from the Kenya boys about their proposed flight .
I was a ' bushbaby ' for many years in my youth , frightened myself more than a few times , woke up , and decided ' no more risks ' , told my pilots ( when I was chief pilot of Air Kenya Malindi ) that I would not tolerate any risk-taking , and that if they could not maintain VFR , they should return / avoid / divert , whatever required , with no risk to their status . Sadly , this pressure from the bosses had led to many accidents before.
I am pleased , and proud , that on my watch , nobody suffered a scratch .
Obviously , I am talking about the old days , no GPS , no autopilots , no radar ,maps that were useless . This has all changed now .
This is what makes the Tzaneen tragedy so appalling . How the hell did it happen ?
Please guys and girls , anybody out there in African aviation - you are NEVER immortal , NEVER perfect , most of Africa is a hostile environment in which to fly , do not make it easy for the Grim Reaper.
Take care up there.