ferry flight Kinshasa-Bratislava
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ferry flight Kinshasa-Bratislava
hallo,
I ve to start planning a ferry flight from Kinshasa (DRC) to Bratislava with a Let410UVP-E.
Endurance: 4 hours plus reserve (about 650NM)
any advice about routing, airspaces, laws, etc?
thanks
I ve to start planning a ferry flight from Kinshasa (DRC) to Bratislava with a Let410UVP-E.
Endurance: 4 hours plus reserve (about 650NM)
any advice about routing, airspaces, laws, etc?
thanks
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Hi there ,
If you don't have a ferry tank , you'll have a number of stops to be looking forward to . Is your airplane 9Q registered ? if yes you might face the 'black listing ' problem in the EU and may have to request special permission well in advance to land in Europe ( I guess Bratislava can organise it for you but it may take a while) . At a glance , I'm thinking you could be routing Kin-Bangui-N'djamena-Agades-Tamanrasset-Ghardaya-Algiers , or Kin-Yaounde-Kano-Tamanrasset (it's a bit tight with 670 NM but you can also land in Agades on the way ) - Gardaya-Algiers . Afterwards , I would say head to Ajaccio in corsica then on to Bratislava .
Don't forget to get all the necessary clearances (landing and overflight) ahead of time (there's a couple of specialised agencies that can do it for you if you don't have a good ops office ) . Make sure you have all the documentation in order as you can almost guarantee a SAFA inspection when you land in the EU . Transponder mode C operating , TCAS and WX radar as well . Finally , and egoistically ... Don't you need an extra pilot for the flight ? I'm actually a L410 captain (Kenyan,SACAA and JAA licence), operating in Bangui at the moment and I have to go to Ostrava at the end of August anyhow .Let me Know and good luck .
If you don't have a ferry tank , you'll have a number of stops to be looking forward to . Is your airplane 9Q registered ? if yes you might face the 'black listing ' problem in the EU and may have to request special permission well in advance to land in Europe ( I guess Bratislava can organise it for you but it may take a while) . At a glance , I'm thinking you could be routing Kin-Bangui-N'djamena-Agades-Tamanrasset-Ghardaya-Algiers , or Kin-Yaounde-Kano-Tamanrasset (it's a bit tight with 670 NM but you can also land in Agades on the way ) - Gardaya-Algiers . Afterwards , I would say head to Ajaccio in corsica then on to Bratislava .
Don't forget to get all the necessary clearances (landing and overflight) ahead of time (there's a couple of specialised agencies that can do it for you if you don't have a good ops office ) . Make sure you have all the documentation in order as you can almost guarantee a SAFA inspection when you land in the EU . Transponder mode C operating , TCAS and WX radar as well . Finally , and egoistically ... Don't you need an extra pilot for the flight ? I'm actually a L410 captain (Kenyan,SACAA and JAA licence), operating in Bangui at the moment and I have to go to Ostrava at the end of August anyhow .Let me Know and good luck .
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Judging the range of 650NM what about going to the east as it would be easier in regard of obtaining permits as well as handling fees and fuel availability that should cut your costs significantly
Roughly I would go FZAA-FZEN-FZJH-HSLI-HSDN-HELX-HEAX-LGTS-LZIB
Roughly I would go FZAA-FZEN-FZJH-HSLI-HSDN-HELX-HEAX-LGTS-LZIB
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No fuel in HSLI or HSDZ and they have no customs and immigration. Sudan is notoriously difficult for ferry pilots due to over the top bureaucracy. avoid avoid avoid!
Dog
Dog
Matt:
I recommend that you give some thought to installing a ferry tank system - something that will give you perhaps 900 to 1,000 miles of range.
I do a lot of ferry flights (just finished one this week from Canada to Peru), and I can tell you "for sure" that what takes all the time, costs all the money, and creates all the stress on ferry flights is the landings - not the actual flight time.
You can probably plan on paying about $1,000+ plus for each landing you make. This will take the form of terminal charges, customs charges, ramp fees, handler fees, etc. On top of all that, it's rare to be able to get 'in and out' of a fuel stop in a lesser developed country in less than 3 hours.
If you toss in a simple ferry tank system that will extend your range, you will cut the number of landings down, and that will greatly reduce both your stress and your expenses.
One flight per day of (for example) 6 hours in duration will result in about 11 hours per day of work - 6 hours for the flight itself, and about 2.5 hours at each end for the administrative and prep duties. Two flights per day of 4 hours each does not result in a 2 hour work increase, instead, it results in an (unsustainable) total of 4 + 2.5 +2.5 for each flight.
Note also that you don't need visas for countries that you overfly. In theory, you should not need a visa for a country if you are operating crew and are just making a fuel stop, but in practice, customs staff in lesser developed countries are not always well educated about the finer points of ICAO treaties.
Bottom line: Try and get a tank system that will let you spend 6 hours per day in the air, in one continuous flight. You will not regret it. Also, if the performance of your aircraft is such that you can increase your range by bringing along an oxygen bottle and flying at high altitudes, by all means do that.
Michael
I recommend that you give some thought to installing a ferry tank system - something that will give you perhaps 900 to 1,000 miles of range.
I do a lot of ferry flights (just finished one this week from Canada to Peru), and I can tell you "for sure" that what takes all the time, costs all the money, and creates all the stress on ferry flights is the landings - not the actual flight time.
You can probably plan on paying about $1,000+ plus for each landing you make. This will take the form of terminal charges, customs charges, ramp fees, handler fees, etc. On top of all that, it's rare to be able to get 'in and out' of a fuel stop in a lesser developed country in less than 3 hours.
If you toss in a simple ferry tank system that will extend your range, you will cut the number of landings down, and that will greatly reduce both your stress and your expenses.
One flight per day of (for example) 6 hours in duration will result in about 11 hours per day of work - 6 hours for the flight itself, and about 2.5 hours at each end for the administrative and prep duties. Two flights per day of 4 hours each does not result in a 2 hour work increase, instead, it results in an (unsustainable) total of 4 + 2.5 +2.5 for each flight.
Note also that you don't need visas for countries that you overfly. In theory, you should not need a visa for a country if you are operating crew and are just making a fuel stop, but in practice, customs staff in lesser developed countries are not always well educated about the finer points of ICAO treaties.
Bottom line: Try and get a tank system that will let you spend 6 hours per day in the air, in one continuous flight. You will not regret it. Also, if the performance of your aircraft is such that you can increase your range by bringing along an oxygen bottle and flying at high altitudes, by all means do that.
Michael
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I started my homeworks
Hallo guys, thanks for the advice..
today I m looking the routing that you sudgested on the IFR charts, I find out that:
the routing via Douala-Kano-Tamanrasset seems to be the shortest and it allow me to avoid one extra landing (and burocracy as V1 said) but the I found a problem to comply with the minima between Douala and Kano ( 150 and 170 , considering westbound track it s gonna be 160 and 180) definetly too much for my old and good Let, (FL140 max)
so I think that the best routing is via Bangui-N'djamena-Agades-Tamanrasset -ghardaia, one more landing but some shorter legs.
After ghardaya I think I can fly to bratislva via Olbia, it seems to be the suiteble airport closest to the track...
this should be the result:
FZAA-FEFF 508 NM , 3.30 hours
FEFF-FTTJ 508 3.05
FTTJ-DRZA 567 3.30
DRZA-DAAR 380 2.20
DAAT-DAUG 583 3.35
DAUG-LIEO 667 4.00
LIEO-LZIB 571 3.30
considering an average TAS 170
please let me know if I m missing something!
About the black list: I figured out that:
banned airlines can still fly their aircraft into the Community for maintenance (notably to resolve safety deficiencies in this area) without carrying any passengers or payload – the so-called "ferry flights".
(from Banned Airlines)
I hope some of you will confirm that.
About the equipment this is what the JAR say:
JAR-OPS 1.668 Airborne Collision Avoidance System
(See IEM OPS 1.668)
(a) An operator shall not operate a turbine powered aeroplane:
(2) Having a maximum certificated takeoff mass in excess of 5 700 kg, but not more than 15 000 kg, or a maximum approved passenger seating configuration of more than 19, but not more than 30, after 1 January 2005,
now, stupid question: a " turbine powered aeroplane" include the turboprops category?
Unfortunately we cannot install a supplementary fuel tank, so I have to find a solution without even if it s gonna be a longer trip.
thanks for helping.
today I m looking the routing that you sudgested on the IFR charts, I find out that:
the routing via Douala-Kano-Tamanrasset seems to be the shortest and it allow me to avoid one extra landing (and burocracy as V1 said) but the I found a problem to comply with the minima between Douala and Kano ( 150 and 170 , considering westbound track it s gonna be 160 and 180) definetly too much for my old and good Let, (FL140 max)
so I think that the best routing is via Bangui-N'djamena-Agades-Tamanrasset -ghardaia, one more landing but some shorter legs.
After ghardaya I think I can fly to bratislva via Olbia, it seems to be the suiteble airport closest to the track...
this should be the result:
FZAA-FEFF 508 NM , 3.30 hours
FEFF-FTTJ 508 3.05
FTTJ-DRZA 567 3.30
DRZA-DAAR 380 2.20
DAAT-DAUG 583 3.35
DAUG-LIEO 667 4.00
LIEO-LZIB 571 3.30
considering an average TAS 170
please let me know if I m missing something!
About the black list: I figured out that:
banned airlines can still fly their aircraft into the Community for maintenance (notably to resolve safety deficiencies in this area) without carrying any passengers or payload – the so-called "ferry flights".
(from Banned Airlines)
I hope some of you will confirm that.
About the equipment this is what the JAR say:
JAR-OPS 1.668 Airborne Collision Avoidance System
(See IEM OPS 1.668)
(a) An operator shall not operate a turbine powered aeroplane:
(2) Having a maximum certificated takeoff mass in excess of 5 700 kg, but not more than 15 000 kg, or a maximum approved passenger seating configuration of more than 19, but not more than 30, after 1 January 2005,
now, stupid question: a " turbine powered aeroplane" include the turboprops category?
Unfortunately we cannot install a supplementary fuel tank, so I have to find a solution without even if it s gonna be a longer trip.
thanks for helping.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Definitely includes the turboprops in General and the Let 410 in particular .
You need ACAS II , Xponder mode C and EGPWS or TAWS for that aircraft . If it's not all installed (or indeed operating) you will have to apply for yet another exemption which might restrict your routes in Europe and even Algeria. Make sure at least your transponder works otherwise ...I foresee a mountain of difficulties . Let me know if you pass by Bangui , I'll buy you a beer !
You need ACAS II , Xponder mode C and EGPWS or TAWS for that aircraft . If it's not all installed (or indeed operating) you will have to apply for yet another exemption which might restrict your routes in Europe and even Algeria. Make sure at least your transponder works otherwise ...I foresee a mountain of difficulties . Let me know if you pass by Bangui , I'll buy you a beer !
