Nigeria Guild of Pilots.

[BALEWA]

I believe this Guild proposal has been mentioned before..me thinks its time to start looking at this Guild issue again.

Lets get together and look at how a Guild could get us back inline with our profession in Naija and how we could pull together as one unified body regarding all this wahala going on with almost all our airlines.

wat u say

I'll sponsor our first meet and get a location for the meet....let me know if ur in....already got a few of the lads interested with a few ideas..Get onboard lets get the ball rolling.

Balewa

[NaijaNinja]

Where is NAAPE?

Will this be a separate entity from the toothless NAAPE? The things i hear about that union irks me.

The Guild will need knowledgeable radicals who won't shirk from telling the truth and acting on it. These radicals must be modern fundamentalists both young and old pilots (Tin Gods should stay in their rocking chairs!).

Most importantly, the end result must be that the entity has A VOICE!

2-kobo worth.

[glideslopealive]

If this is another toothless carnivore like NAAPE, it better RIP. I am both a pilot and an aircraft maintenance engineer with FAA, JAA and NCAA Licences. As i write, about half of the 750 pilots flying in Nigeria are foreigners, at the expense of the over 50 and increasing army of unemployed commercial pilots (though mostly CPL holders). Having trained in both US and Europe, it is an impossibility to get a pilot/engineer in most countries. India, has just ruled that by the end of year 2011, there should be no foreign pilot operating in their country. Even within our sister African countries Ghana, Kenya, RSA name them, you can hadly get a job in these sister countries. Meanwhile, we have a good crowd of sister African country pilots operating here in Nigeria.

One reason always used to deceive the airlines and our goverment is that we do not have enough pilots. That is not very true. With rgds Captains - yeah, but with rgds FOs - neah. They claim that you require at least 1500hrs to fly as an airline FO. This is not stated anywhere in the NCAR or even the FAR or JAR. While it is desirable to have more experienced flight crews, it is not always practicable especially in many countries. While in the USA, the competition for airline flight crew job is intense because of the huge pilot population of over 720,000 scrambling for front seats on airliners from their intemediary hours building flying such as flight instructing in flight schools, regionals, military and a vibrant GA. It is not exactly this way in Europe and other nations where there is a not so vibrant or total absence of intermediaries. it is quite common to see FOs on the jet airlines with under 400hrs in these countries.

Sometime last year, i wrote to the Honourable Minister of Aviation on this issue. Ofcourse, as expected, it most likely ended up in the bin where regressives of Nigerian aviation would want it to be so that the staus quo is maintained.

It is high time that we come together, form a formidable and powerful pilot/engineer association that will protect our interest and ensure aviation development to the satisfaction of all stakeholders.

[Revnetwork]

Not Enough Pilots!!

I still say there are not enough Nigerian pilots for all the jobs available.
If by your calculations there are 50+- Nigerian CPL holders, how can they replace the 300+ foreigners (by your calculations) flying in Nigeria?

I have personal experience of this and I can categorically state there are not enough!!
Just watch as India back pedals as well when they realise they don't have enough indigenous pilots as either airliners start getting parked, or pilots start bursting the FTLs.

[Oba1kanobe]

Would this guild be to protect the interests of pilots in Nigeria? Or just pilots of Nigerian origin? The statements above seem to suggest the latter.

[dynamicd]

If there is a long term plan by the authorities and the airlines it is possible to operate without "expartriate" pilots.I do not support a policy of not employing foreign pilots On the contrary I believe any suitably qualified person should be employed so long as it is not done at the expense of a citizen.This is a norm in all countries.

The Airlines benefit as they will eliminate unecessary overheads,accomodation,feeding,transport and air tickets etc.All the big companies AJ,VK and W3 have a department staffed with people doing nothing but buying tickets and organising permits for expat pilots.If all pilots in a company are locally based, resources at an airline can be freed up and used for training,product improvement,operating cost etc

The government and the nation benefit from money remaining in the country, improving the economy and providing employment for local people thus developing the population.

The proposed guild/professional body or whatever must propose and aggressively pursue the following.

1.Only foreign pilots with high time and experience in training must be employed on expat conditions.We need them.

2.Low experienced pilots especially first officer candidates must not be employed on expat bases, even if they have type rating.They must apply and if found suitable and only where no Nigerian can take up the position can they be employed.And it must be on equal terms as the local contract.These guys have nothing to offer in aviation development and as such they are not expats!

3.Airlines,banks and Central bank must arrange credit facility with favorable interest rates where suitably qualified 200 hours cpl holders from any where in the world interested in pursuing a career in Nigerian airlines can get funding to sponsor his/her self in getting a type rating.Training bonds are an option as well.

This is my humble view

[VKwannabe]

well said dynamicd, to further it the guild should also represent the interest of student pilots. my 2 pennies

vkwannabe

[18left]

NAIJA NINJA/GLIDESLOPEALIVE

Before you bury NAAPE,how many people pay NAAPE dues as meagre as they are.NAAPE has rescued me on more than one occasion!
Do ARIK/DANA/VK/CHACHANGI pilots pay dues?
How can you expect wonders then!!

To all of you i ask a simple question.

If you started a luxurious bus service to onistha today,would you fill the drivers seat with people straight from driving school,and put your family on that bus,in the midst of heavily experienced un-employed drivers?How would you react if you cant get any drivers at all?

In my own opinion for a nation to develop any sector and protect it,it is STRICTLY in my own opinion a policy for immigration dept to assess and review periodically.

If there is pilot surplus tighten work permits,loosen it in times of scarcity.

Are we going to "zone" jobs,and not get the best candidates?

It should not be a type/experience criteria,it doesn't make sense.

If you are not getting jobs as nigerians in foreign lands its either there are no jobs there,or you don't have the immigration status to get such a job.

Why should i fund my type rating?most airline that indulge in this s..t are not places you want to build your carreer anyway.No legacy airline will make such a demand,its about seeking the best,not the type rated!

[BALEWA]

Well...it looks like we have a go on the Guild cos all the questions and suggestions we making here is what we should be doing at the Guild....

Me thinks we should get together in 30days and start something (Believe me guys we need to and real soon)

Get the word out and lets for now decide on how and when to get together.....

Glideslope alive...In some countries foreign pilots need to register with the local Guild and get clearance after full vetting for the foreign pilot to get that job ie. VirginAustralia, ask the Australian Pilots!!!.For example in the case of foreign registered jets in Naija with foreign cabin crew cos of the registration of the aircraft ...haha that is a No No in some countries, u either train local crew or you cant operate Hope this helps..................but thats by the way we have to get this good thing going guys...need to start.......Had enough of Guilding on pprune..............................................

Lets Stand Up....

[glideslopealive]

I still maintain my stand, no reasonable goverment will provide employment to aliens at the cost of its citizens. For me, its a failure of goverment and the workers union concerned in making oversights.

Balewa,

I am willing to avail my knowledge and time unconditionally to such an association any time it is required.

[a.mandon]

"The government and the nation benefit from money remaining in the country, improving the economy and providing employment for local people thus developing the population"

Only in your wettest dreams !!!

I flew many times to Nigeria when based in Gabon, got robbed a couple of times and our aircraft (Falcon type) while staying overnight at the Sheraton airport got emptied at the executive ramp (knives, forks, glasses, plates in the Galley, some of the seat items not securely fastened, life jackets, the captain PFD and other nice goodies).

EU guys, no need to go there, even for 1 million $/year.

[Revnetwork]

why does every nutter jump onto any thread about Nigeria?

a.mandon.
This thread is about Nigerian Guild of pilots and not about how you were robbed in Nigeria.
FYI my staff were robbed blind in LBV, Gabon - so what?
The EU guys/airlines (including moi) will continue going there becasue we make money/profits there!!

[onefatpilot]

why does every nutter jump onto any thread about Nigeria?

Because they are trying to keep the cash cow for themselves

[White Knight]

So it's ok for all of your aunts, uncles and cousins to come to my country (UK) and screw it over But you don't want foreigners in Nigeria.

Make your minds up girls

[NaijaNinja]

Sir White

White Knight, you seem to have lost the plot or never had it. The whole idea of the proposed guild is to create a body like BALPA in Nigeria. Now that a lot of issues are cropping up with regards to mis-management etc., flight crew members need some support to fight the monsters who run the industry.

If the Guild's priority is to protect locals, so be it! What has GAPAN ever done for a non 'White' kid in the UK (can't tell you my life story now) or the Air League (surely they will collect his membership fees) but he doesn't mean jack to them.

Scroll down and check out the winners of the scholarships, bursaries etc. on this webpage: The Air League Keeping Britain at the forefront of Aviation and show me a Nigerian/African/Black winner on that list. If you can find one, then enlighten us all, otherwise, vacate this thread and stop blocking the airwaves with your dust!

[NaijaNinja]

Moving on

Right, i suggest the Guild liaise with the International Federation of Airline Pilots Associations (IFALPA) to get professional guidance & foundation on setup procedures blah blah.

What happened to LJT's post?

Welcome back the Long1!

[ZAZOO]

Balewa check your PM!

Good point Ninja very interesting. I believe balewa wants those interested to meet in 30days, well the clock is counting down so is there going to be a founders day, because I'd Love to be there.

Also I'd appreciate if we leave out or ignore as the case may be comments that have no relationship with this thread and stick to the topic.

I like this and I shall give my support if it is done correctly. So which watering hole is it going to be at and lets get it going.

[Vortex Thing]

Think yourselves lucky to have a job in these times and climes

DynamicD The world does not owe you a living. Get over it!

You want banks to provide sponsorship for your licence and type rating!! That is why we expats are flying in Nigeria! We did not wait for someone to give us money we sold everything we had, sold our grannies and worked in McDonalds or drove trucks, etc until we could afford to pay for each and every lesson.

BALPA which you all seem to hold in such high esteem did nothing to stop pilots of any nationality taking all the jobs in UK so British FOs have nowhere left to go but overseas.

Park yourself at Luton, Gatwick or Stansted at morning wave departure and listen to the voices on Easyjet, BMI or even BA. You will hear, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Czech, Australian, South African, etc etc accents. Why? It is called supply and demand you go where the jobs are!

If you cannot get a job in your own country you go wherever you can legally work. The more you want to work the further you will travel. Do you really think that we want to be in Lagos away from friends and family for most of the year trapped like prisoners in our substandard hotels?

Yes I am sure that GAPAN may not have handed out many/if any scholarships to 'non Brits' but so it shouldn't. That said it is hardly the provider of hundreds of pilots a year who turn up at Oxford and Cabair now though is it?

Get off your behind, go and earn/beg/borrow or 419 some money pay for your own training and get in the queue and then if you are very lucky use some family influence to get you an interview (not a job just the interview) and do the rest the same as everyone else.

If you want unions and the trappings of the FAA and JAA states then you take the costs that come with it. No one pays for you in the US, UK or most of Europe until you are way way down the line so why expect it in Nigeria.

Glideslopalive you state

I still maintain my stand, no reasonable goverment will provide employment to aliens at the cost of its citizens. For me, its a failure of goverment and the workers union concerned in making oversights.

Read above, welcome to our world, what on earth do you think we are doing here in Nigeria. If every British airline only employed British pilots you would have not only no banter from me (as I would still be in the UK) but you would also not have airlines like Arik, Aeros or VK which have kept Nigeria flying for years. You are moaning about 50 or so pilots being unemployed, you have a population approaching 150 million people. In UK there are over 2,000 pilots unemployed, I hear of up to 5,000 in Spain and Italy (willing to be corrected). All 3 of these countries have populations less than half of yours. Seriously consider yourself lucky to have even completed your training much less have a job ......

and before you go on about failure of government I think we might want to look just a little more closely at guys like the DG NCAA, oh and the entire board of directors at Arik who the EFCC are about to hopefully very publicly crucify this is the source of your problems. Get rid of these guys and their mates and create a stable and non corrupt government. This will surely lead eventually to proper governance, legal business and a decent infrastructure then you can worry about the passport of the guy flying the plane

[glideslopealive]

Vortex Thing,


I believe you intentionally want to mislead this community by stating the many different nationalities making a living by flying UK based carriers. who does not know that of the numerous nationalities you mentioned, its only the South Africans and aussies that do not have the right to work in the UK. Secondly, If as you claim 2000 pilots are unemployed in the UK, that must be a very small percentage of your entire pilot workforce when compared to over 50 pilots in Nigeria which represents over 10% of our entire active pilot population. Do not feel bad, its a natural process that as the workforce in any sector begins to get saturated and unemployment numbers begin to shoot up, the first casualities would be expats. Back in your country UK, you have a large number of foreign workers(including Nigerians) in the health sector, thats bcos you need them. But the moment you begin to have indigineous doctors, nurses, pharmacist etc in the job market, then agitation starts and your goverment quickly comes out with an immigration reform. Am sure the goverment and people of both UK and Nigeria appreciates the invaluable contributions made by these professionals.

[NaijaNinja]

Vortex Thing

One thing you should realise is that this thread didn't start off as an Anti-Globalisation thread, some sh*t stirrers are trying to steer it in that direction, so calm down on the justification of your presence in Africa whichever of her cities you are based in.

But should you wish to be the captain steering us all in this non-thread related direction, i will reply you saying that i can bet you all the nationalities listed in your post are represented in those airlines by non 'black' pilots. I just can't broadcast stories here.

Surely you can read, speak & write English, so i guess there just wasn't a job offer coming from Oz or SA. However, i'm certain that if you could read, speak or write any of these languages (French, Spanish, Italian, German, Czech or Slavic), Nigeria would not be on your list of destinations for a job offer.

Those non-English Europeans who work in the UK have done what you probably haven't done - learnt a foreign language! So go subscribe to a Linguaphone course, its easy, get on your okada to MMIA and get a job somewhere in the EU zone. They shouldn't refuse you if you are good enough to be an expert, not an expat!

I don't know if you are well qualified to offer solutions to Nigeria's issues, but i am sure the DG's position is only open to locals, you could apply as a consultant though, likewise, i agree those guys running the industry are clueless, no different from Mr. Bean.

Now lets steer back towards a thread-related direction, Glideslopealive was BANG ON! Glideslopealive, take us all the way to touchdown.