B190 Crew insight?
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If there was a restriction it would be in section 2 of the POH/AFM. There isn't one so tow around to your hearts content, heavy light, uphill downhill, no problem. The gear is designed to take it.
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Thanks lads, finally got my reply from HBC (Hawker Beech Corp)
So, the old girl was never intended to do this, and so it is NOT acceptable!
Dog
Your question regarding towing the Beech 1900 Airliner has been forwarded to my attention.
There are no HBC limitations that prohibit the practice you describe, and I have found no Warnings or Cautions that mention it. Possibly no one at HBC expected that an operator would adopt the practice. The only reason I can think of for an operator to do this is gravel runway operations. They may feel the taxiway from parking to start position is too contaminated to safely taxi. You didn't mention how far they were towing fully loaded and what type surface was involved.
Since Hawker Beechcraft has not tested or evaluated this practice, we are not in a position to comment on it's acceptability. Increased wear and tear on nose structure and nose landing gear components is certainly a possibility. More frequent inspections of nose structure associated with nose landing gear attachment and nose landing gear components should certainly be considered. I hope this information proves helpful. If I can be of further assistance in this matter, please don't hesitate to contact me.
With Best Regards:
There are no HBC limitations that prohibit the practice you describe, and I have found no Warnings or Cautions that mention it. Possibly no one at HBC expected that an operator would adopt the practice. The only reason I can think of for an operator to do this is gravel runway operations. They may feel the taxiway from parking to start position is too contaminated to safely taxi. You didn't mention how far they were towing fully loaded and what type surface was involved.
Since Hawker Beechcraft has not tested or evaluated this practice, we are not in a position to comment on it's acceptability. Increased wear and tear on nose structure and nose landing gear components is certainly a possibility. More frequent inspections of nose structure associated with nose landing gear attachment and nose landing gear components should certainly be considered. I hope this information proves helpful. If I can be of further assistance in this matter, please don't hesitate to contact me.
With Best Regards:
So, the old girl was never intended to do this, and so it is NOT acceptable!
Dog
Join Date: Aug 2008
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the old girl was never intended to do this, and so it is NOT acceptable!
(Perhaps not absolutely exactly)
Possibly no one at HBC expected that an operator would adopt the practice.
IE: No one at Hawker ever intended the old girl to do that.
we are not in a position to comment on it's acceptability.
IE: On your own bud.
But glad you got it sorted. Hawker would certainly not cnsider themselves liable for any damage caused due to the actions you describe and surely neither would the insurance. The operator would be loony to continue the practice after you face them with your information.
(Perhaps not absolutely exactly)
Possibly no one at HBC expected that an operator would adopt the practice.
IE: No one at Hawker ever intended the old girl to do that.
we are not in a position to comment on it's acceptability.
IE: On your own bud.
But glad you got it sorted. Hawker would certainly not cnsider themselves liable for any damage caused due to the actions you describe and surely neither would the insurance. The operator would be loony to continue the practice after you face them with your information.
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If I may add please that on complete balance and worth nothing of course but I agree with suitcaseman.
They do not like the practice but can find nothing to prohibit it perhaps?
They do not like the practice but can find nothing to prohibit it perhaps?
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Since Hawker Beechcraft has not tested or evaluated this practice, we are not in a position to comment on it's acceptability
anyhow, see below for an example of how "missunderstanding" a proceedure can go wrong. The manufacturer never in their wildest dream though somone would operate this thing any different to what they said in the instructions.
TOO FUNNY!
ONLY A MAN WOULD ATTEMPT THIS
Just try reading this without laughing till you cry!!!
Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife.
A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their anniversary submitted this:Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest.
The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a100,000-volt, pocket/purse- sized tazer.
The effects of the tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety....?? WAY TOO COOL!
Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home. I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between theprongs. AWESOME!!!
Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave. Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two AAA batteries, right?
There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target. I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and then thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat.
But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong?
So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and tazer in another.
The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; and a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water.
Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.
All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5"long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference (loaded with two itsy, bitsy AAA batteries); pretty cute really, and thinking to myself, 'no possible way!
'What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best ...
I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side so as to say, 'Don't do it stupid,' reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny lil ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and ...HOLY MOTHER OF.. . WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION . . . WHAT THE ....!!!
I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles no where to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!
The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.
Note: If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a tazer, one note of caution: there is NO such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor!
A three second burst would be considered conservative! A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.
My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was.
My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs. I had no control over the drooling.
Apparently I had crapped in my shorts, but was too numb to know for sure, and my sense of smell was gone. I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head, which I believe came from my hair. I'm still looking for my testicles and I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!
P.s... My wife can't stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift and now regularly threatens me with it! If you think education is difficult, try being stupid !!
Just try reading this without laughing till you cry!!!
Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife.
A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their anniversary submitted this:Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest.
The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a100,000-volt, pocket/purse- sized tazer.
The effects of the tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety....?? WAY TOO COOL!
Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home. I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between theprongs. AWESOME!!!
Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave. Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two AAA batteries, right?
There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target. I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and then thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat.
But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong?
So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and tazer in another.
The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; and a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water.
Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.
All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5"long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference (loaded with two itsy, bitsy AAA batteries); pretty cute really, and thinking to myself, 'no possible way!
'What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best ...
I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side so as to say, 'Don't do it stupid,' reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny lil ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and ...HOLY MOTHER OF.. . WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION . . . WHAT THE ....!!!
I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles no where to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!
The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.
Note: If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a tazer, one note of caution: there is NO such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor!
A three second burst would be considered conservative! A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.
My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was.
My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs. I had no control over the drooling.
Apparently I had crapped in my shorts, but was too numb to know for sure, and my sense of smell was gone. I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head, which I believe came from my hair. I'm still looking for my testicles and I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!
P.s... My wife can't stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift and now regularly threatens me with it! If you think education is difficult, try being stupid !!
Join Date: Nov 2002
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What that story has to do with towing a 1900 I have no idea but it is a classic none the less.
There is no excuse for stupidity but at least it gives us all a good laugh.
ct
There is no excuse for stupidity but at least it gives us all a good laugh.
ct
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Thank GOD for engineers! I sometimes know my co-pilots name.
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Towing a 1900
It's like everything-everything in moderation is fine. You can tow all day to your heart's content if you wish. If you fly for the UN it becomes a real pain and a safety issue sometimes. They will tow you 30 metres if they can because then someone gets paid in US$. Get yourself a qualified tug driver and you should be okay. Ask him/her for their latest check if in doubt.
Tow and fly safely,
Arend III.
Tow and fly safely,
Arend III.
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Sounds like most the answers are there. Can be done with extra inspections on the load bearing nose gear strut.
If your company approves it first of all and they save extra start cycles, or they build the extra cost of the inspections into the contract..then not a problem.
But really ARENDIII, you should learn the name of your co pilot...you might even learn something from him/her. Or maybe you need to pay more attention in CRM.
If your company approves it first of all and they save extra start cycles, or they build the extra cost of the inspections into the contract..then not a problem.
But really ARENDIII, you should learn the name of your co pilot...you might even learn something from him/her. Or maybe you need to pay more attention in CRM.
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Our 1900's are pushed aroud our apron every day and have been for the last 5 years. to date no issues. Just make sure you have a qualified tug driver operating a decent tug and you will have no issues.
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There might not be a problem pushing/towing on level ground but there might be a slope limitation. A fully fueled Gulfstream III has a limitation (cannot remember exact percentage) and cannot or should not be towed onto the ramp at Lanseria for instance as the slope exceeds the limitation.
