Ethiopian Airlines
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Thanks, Bo. I sent an email to all three of them (I have one guy communicating about getting a letter of invitation, one guy who copied me a visa application he had made (with my birthdate December 2008) to which I had to tell him was incorrect (I'd certainly be the youngest pilot on the roster) and another that sent me, out of the blue, a reservation!
Seems grossly disorganized. I didn't hear anything on the forum for several days so went ahead and politely told them I needed several weeks lead time, since I have to buy a ticket from Hawaii to Washington DC, which is where the reservation was from, and last minute fares are equivalent to scalping.
I haven't hear anything back. I just wonder if they are all on the same page there.
Seems grossly disorganized. I didn't hear anything on the forum for several days so went ahead and politely told them I needed several weeks lead time, since I have to buy a ticket from Hawaii to Washington DC, which is where the reservation was from, and last minute fares are equivalent to scalping.
I haven't hear anything back. I just wonder if they are all on the same page there.
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hi
be aware as there is no time limit as the locals can fly as much hours as they want,like 1500 hrs in a year, and the aviation authorities dont care that much to control,,infact they even allow u at times to avoid flt cancellations,,,,nice plce to hit overtime,,,,
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be aware as there is no time limit as the locals can fly as much hours as they want,like 1500 hrs in a year, and the aviation authorities dont care that much to control,,infact they even allow u at times to avoid flt cancellations,,,,nice plce to hit overtime,,,,
Last edited by GoForIt; 3rd Jan 2011 at 14:36.
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Limitations.
GOFORIT, your post is very funny.I am sure you work for ET however, what the rules say, and what actually happens are two very different things.My mate there tells me many guys work way outside these numbers.At the end of the day, its up to you, but apparently, you will be asked to work, work work.......regardless of how many hours youve done already.There is no checking of this by anyone.They are so short of crews..........
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I am interested but not current in the B757. I flew it 15 years ago. I do have other heavy jet (and turboprop time). I would not mind flying the Dash or Fokker. Still wish they had the herc around! So are they only hiring CURRENT AND TYPED???
I have emailed them on the website.
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EThiopian
They are major short of drivers, 737 the worse for shortage. I know they have people watching this post for possible pilot contacts, as well as Aeropro and FCI also.
It's not a bad life, not as glamorous as life in the EU. Bit of roughing it here, but very interesting. Salary is low, so I would guess that may lead to the shortage issue. P/D and housing pay is good, but basic salary is below norm's. Most other carriers are in the e6500 to e8000 range without the extras.
Training can be very good and can be very bad. A couple of chaps here that are into the negative training mode and really are doing a very poor job of enticing candidates to stay. Couple of lads have just walked off just because of them. Also, know of several candidates that have told me they will not come here and put up with the demoralization tactics from these two locals.
However, there are a couple of fellows here that are into doing a knock-up job and are a pleasure to work with. Most of the local FO's do a great job even though low time chaps. The ones that get stuck with the bad instructors take a week or two to get there heads focused, then they are great lads to work with.
Right now there are open slots in Indo, China, India, Eroupe, and MENA. As well several others in Africa. So compare the notes and pay...then decide.
Me...I just like the local brew.
It's not a bad life, not as glamorous as life in the EU. Bit of roughing it here, but very interesting. Salary is low, so I would guess that may lead to the shortage issue. P/D and housing pay is good, but basic salary is below norm's. Most other carriers are in the e6500 to e8000 range without the extras.
Training can be very good and can be very bad. A couple of chaps here that are into the negative training mode and really are doing a very poor job of enticing candidates to stay. Couple of lads have just walked off just because of them. Also, know of several candidates that have told me they will not come here and put up with the demoralization tactics from these two locals.
However, there are a couple of fellows here that are into doing a knock-up job and are a pleasure to work with. Most of the local FO's do a great job even though low time chaps. The ones that get stuck with the bad instructors take a week or two to get there heads focused, then they are great lads to work with.
Right now there are open slots in Indo, China, India, Eroupe, and MENA. As well several others in Africa. So compare the notes and pay...then decide.
Me...I just like the local brew.
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Agree with AlvinZane. I'm on the 767 and it seems about 80% of our instructors have no idea how to teach. But once you get through the training, the flying is fun. There is a lot of variety on the 767 fleet. We get more experienced F/O's on our fleet, and they are all outstanding in my opinion. I haven't flown with a weak f/o yet. The pay is low, but I recently found out we expats are making more than 2x (close to 3x) what the locals are paid. Despite that, all local pilots are friendly and seem to harbor no hard feelings toward us. That is typical of the Ethiopians. They are just good people. When you live here, you can't help but love these people. But company management doesn't treat them well at all. This company wants to get blood out of turnip.
Living in Addis has its own special challenges. That combined with the low pay and constant changes to my schedule has put me back in the job market. I could put up with the lifestyle here if it weren't for the pitiful pay and crisis scheduling. I predict it will improve over time. It has to, given all the expansion they have planned, but it won't happen until they start canceling more flights for lack of crews. For me, it won't improve soon enough to keep me here.
Living in Addis has its own special challenges. That combined with the low pay and constant changes to my schedule has put me back in the job market. I could put up with the lifestyle here if it weren't for the pitiful pay and crisis scheduling. I predict it will improve over time. It has to, given all the expansion they have planned, but it won't happen until they start canceling more flights for lack of crews. For me, it won't improve soon enough to keep me here.
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expat in Africa
Makes you wonder if they are in such a need for pilots (which I've heard from numerous people who work for them) - are they taking foreign pilots who aren't type rated?
I love the culture/food/people there and would love the opportunity to live in Ethiopia but am not currently rated on any of their planes.
I love the culture/food/people there and would love the opportunity to live in Ethiopia but am not currently rated on any of their planes.
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ET
Went there for assessment late last Summer. Same old Third World stuff....paint peeling off the Walls, Water Taps in the Bathroom were partially functional and no hand tissue or towels in the men's room. The hand dryers did not function as well. But my favorite was when I was in the lunch / waiting room for my sim assessment and a local chap offers me a drink of water. I did not notice any water fountain earlier and was somewhat puzzled as to where he was getting the water he had just offered me. Out of curiosity alone I accepted and watched in amazement as he open the second floor window, leaned out and there was a water tap hanging in mid-air that had been attached to the exterior wall, some 12 meters up. Guess it was easier than re-plumbing, but who knows where it came from.
ET appears to have massive growth plans and their in-house academy can not keep up with the growth. So expats are in the plan until they get a check on their growth. Had the opportunity to stay and extra day (at my own expense) and went to the area where many of the expat pilots are. Quite a few stories to be heard, some where obviously lubed-up due to the excessive consumption of the local brew. But all the guys I spoke with were unhappy about the way they are treated and are quite keen on the expat pilot market. Quite a few expats have left, so the salary has been structured so any expat that bails out will forfeit a months pay plus two months overtime pay. More than a few had trouble with collecting the salary deposits and allowances.
All said the training was substandard compared to their previously company and the Airline SOP's are not well presented, as well as a lack of continuity in flowing together conceptually. I had the chance to peruse over them and agreed with their assessment. Appeared to me as pages were missing, but when checking, the page numbers were consecutive.
Their comments on line training were as equally appalling. General lack on communicative skills, bizarre events, and home-made procedures that the line training guy felt was his contribution.
General synopsis I came away with was run away fast, so i did. All in all, an experience to forget. There are far to many other expat gigs out there to stay in ET.
ET appears to have massive growth plans and their in-house academy can not keep up with the growth. So expats are in the plan until they get a check on their growth. Had the opportunity to stay and extra day (at my own expense) and went to the area where many of the expat pilots are. Quite a few stories to be heard, some where obviously lubed-up due to the excessive consumption of the local brew. But all the guys I spoke with were unhappy about the way they are treated and are quite keen on the expat pilot market. Quite a few expats have left, so the salary has been structured so any expat that bails out will forfeit a months pay plus two months overtime pay. More than a few had trouble with collecting the salary deposits and allowances.
All said the training was substandard compared to their previously company and the Airline SOP's are not well presented, as well as a lack of continuity in flowing together conceptually. I had the chance to peruse over them and agreed with their assessment. Appeared to me as pages were missing, but when checking, the page numbers were consecutive.
Their comments on line training were as equally appalling. General lack on communicative skills, bizarre events, and home-made procedures that the line training guy felt was his contribution.
General synopsis I came away with was run away fast, so i did. All in all, an experience to forget. There are far to many other expat gigs out there to stay in ET.
Last edited by ObiWon; 29th Nov 2010 at 09:42.
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ET
Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself.
The training program is very difficult, not set up like most modern air carriers. There are a lot of missing items that you will only learn about by asking many questions. The Aircraft are flown with B707 procedures because that's what the Airline started it's training with and it worked well then. More commonly called the "African Way".
If you have no transport experience, you may do well. You will not bring any misconceptions from your former carrier on how to fly in the modern World. More commonly known as the "African Way". Beirut and Comoros---the "African Way".
A rough average for accepted pilots about 15% TO 20% of assessments. For the percent that stay, another 10% will leave or fail the training. B767 has the best record, but the B737 is far behind that. Only two Capt make it through line check since August. Most highly experienced B737 pilots fail.
B 767 guys are primarily Delta guys and they seem to have a click there.
Think hard and do not listen to recruiter. Ask if your rep has ever been to Addis or seen the inside of the training center. It was appropriately described in the prior post.
A tribal mentality exists there and you are not part of the tribe, so one can easily imagine where you line up in the food chain. Addis can be fun, bring plenty of meds and money if you plan to survive. Listen to half of what the recruiter tells you and believe less than a quarter of it.
No, I did not fail the training program. Unfortunately, it was a very expensive experience. Though it does provide a lot entertainment at parties when i play the video where one line training guy is yelling and screaming so hard that he cannot control the drool running down his face. All in All, a life experience. I only hope that for the new guys sake, they have improved over the last year. But seriously doubt it. The "African Way" does not allow for admitting mistakes, only hiding them. Best of luck, lads.
The training program is very difficult, not set up like most modern air carriers. There are a lot of missing items that you will only learn about by asking many questions. The Aircraft are flown with B707 procedures because that's what the Airline started it's training with and it worked well then. More commonly called the "African Way".
If you have no transport experience, you may do well. You will not bring any misconceptions from your former carrier on how to fly in the modern World. More commonly known as the "African Way". Beirut and Comoros---the "African Way".
A rough average for accepted pilots about 15% TO 20% of assessments. For the percent that stay, another 10% will leave or fail the training. B767 has the best record, but the B737 is far behind that. Only two Capt make it through line check since August. Most highly experienced B737 pilots fail.
B 767 guys are primarily Delta guys and they seem to have a click there.
Think hard and do not listen to recruiter. Ask if your rep has ever been to Addis or seen the inside of the training center. It was appropriately described in the prior post.
A tribal mentality exists there and you are not part of the tribe, so one can easily imagine where you line up in the food chain. Addis can be fun, bring plenty of meds and money if you plan to survive. Listen to half of what the recruiter tells you and believe less than a quarter of it.
No, I did not fail the training program. Unfortunately, it was a very expensive experience. Though it does provide a lot entertainment at parties when i play the video where one line training guy is yelling and screaming so hard that he cannot control the drool running down his face. All in All, a life experience. I only hope that for the new guys sake, they have improved over the last year. But seriously doubt it. The "African Way" does not allow for admitting mistakes, only hiding them. Best of luck, lads.
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"Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself
You are the first one to ever say anything about this so called financial problem.For a company that posted close to, if I am not mistaken, 60 million dollar profit and load factor in upwards of 80 85 percent I have a hard time believing that. On the other hand can you please post the video as I myself had gone thru the same ridiculous training mentality and would be fun to see the video.
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@ Rubis
Comoros was a hijack plane ran out of fuel nothing to do with your so called 'African way' mentality, and ET isn't going through any financial rough patch, actually one of the few airlines that posted a profit.
It's so pathetic when folks like you falsify information to make their story telling juicier coz that's all it is.
By all means criticize but tell the truth and be factual about your accounts, by the way shouting isn't a preserve of ET pilots, done most of my training in the west initial sim at Alteon UK and yes there are just some crazy western pilots as well.
I guess there's no winning with you guys, 'the sand pit isn't for you, unhappy at ET, too much culture issues in Asia .... Jeez.
Please stay at Home
Comoros was a hijack plane ran out of fuel nothing to do with your so called 'African way' mentality, and ET isn't going through any financial rough patch, actually one of the few airlines that posted a profit.
It's so pathetic when folks like you falsify information to make their story telling juicier coz that's all it is.
By all means criticize but tell the truth and be factual about your accounts, by the way shouting isn't a preserve of ET pilots, done most of my training in the west initial sim at Alteon UK and yes there are just some crazy western pilots as well.
I guess there's no winning with you guys, 'the sand pit isn't for you, unhappy at ET, too much culture issues in Asia .... Jeez.
Please stay at Home
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Hijacking
It happened from inside the flightdeck, not outside.....who let him in and why. This is very basic here.
The "African Way"? Coincidently, I didn't coin it, the instructors at ET did. it's there favorite excuse for why they deviate from World-Wide accepted, developed, implemented, and used procedures. So take your beef to them BUCKWHEAT.
If you are aware of the training issues and they did indeed originate from a different culture, why do you accept them? If you know they are bad training techniques and are counter productive, along with creating negative training scenarios that "untrain" a pilot and increase training expenses, then why adopt them and coin phony excuses?
The Boeing guys there are at a loss when the new planes are flown with 707 techniques. I was brought in because of my prior training experience and past work in human-factors incident recreations.
EVERY training concept that the new World has adopted, these guys throw aside. THEIR excuse "it is the African Way", as an explanation for their incredulous and non-ethical training procedures is a black eye to other developed African Airlines.
BUT, the really, really big one is the yelling and screaming. Are they trying to impress a point, cover up their lack of training experience, or have no basic concept of institutional documented, educational techniques? With the exception of a few, almost everything I saw from the training standpoint was something Training departments evolved from many years ago.
If your upset about the analogy, then creditability resolve it. Maybe your the one that needs to reallocate the concept of the "African Way"
Incidently, I am of African heritage. I just don't feel that ignorance and blatant disregard is an acceptable excuse for complacent training, obviously your able to accept it though. What a sad situation!
The "African Way"? Coincidently, I didn't coin it, the instructors at ET did. it's there favorite excuse for why they deviate from World-Wide accepted, developed, implemented, and used procedures. So take your beef to them BUCKWHEAT.
If you are aware of the training issues and they did indeed originate from a different culture, why do you accept them? If you know they are bad training techniques and are counter productive, along with creating negative training scenarios that "untrain" a pilot and increase training expenses, then why adopt them and coin phony excuses?
The Boeing guys there are at a loss when the new planes are flown with 707 techniques. I was brought in because of my prior training experience and past work in human-factors incident recreations.
EVERY training concept that the new World has adopted, these guys throw aside. THEIR excuse "it is the African Way", as an explanation for their incredulous and non-ethical training procedures is a black eye to other developed African Airlines.
BUT, the really, really big one is the yelling and screaming. Are they trying to impress a point, cover up their lack of training experience, or have no basic concept of institutional documented, educational techniques? With the exception of a few, almost everything I saw from the training standpoint was something Training departments evolved from many years ago.
If your upset about the analogy, then creditability resolve it. Maybe your the one that needs to reallocate the concept of the "African Way"
Incidently, I am of African heritage. I just don't feel that ignorance and blatant disregard is an acceptable excuse for complacent training, obviously your able to accept it though. What a sad situation!
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Really? The pilots let them in? I guess we should lay the sept 11 disaster squarely on the pilots for letting terrorists into the cockpit mmmh
You know as well as I do pre sept 11 attack cockpit door procedures were quite different, interesting how self righteous safety crusaders on these threads always have a biased view when it suits them.
Aviation here is far from perfect no one is denying the standard difference to the western or developed world per say is glaring, just the hypocrisy and stereotyped mentality when discussing issues pertaining to other parts of the world that ain't western is what is disturbing, most of it isn't criticism that is constructive more often than not just a bunch of Egoistic individuals trying to feed their superiority complexes.
You know as well as I do pre sept 11 attack cockpit door procedures were quite different, interesting how self righteous safety crusaders on these threads always have a biased view when it suits them.
Aviation here is far from perfect no one is denying the standard difference to the western or developed world per say is glaring, just the hypocrisy and stereotyped mentality when discussing issues pertaining to other parts of the world that ain't western is what is disturbing, most of it isn't criticism that is constructive more often than not just a bunch of Egoistic individuals trying to feed their superiority complexes.
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Comoros was not a hijack story.I was on the beach of the Galawa beach hotel,I saw the ditching, I contributed to the rescue of some of the 52 survivors.I can tell you that 9 Mossad people were on board this plane.this is a much more complicated story than a "simple" hijack...
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@Makolo
The ditching was due to the fact that they had run out of fuel when the terrorists commandeered the aircraft 20min into the flight from it's intended stop which was Nairobi Jomo, and insisted they take them to Australia yet there wasn't enough fuel on board, the captains plea to at least make a refuelling stop fell on deaf ears, as they(the terrorists) had read on the inflight magazine that the 767 was able to fly 11 hours non stop and weren't convinced that there wasn't enough fuel.
The ditching was due to the fact that they had run out of fuel when the terrorists commandeered the aircraft 20min into the flight from it's intended stop which was Nairobi Jomo, and insisted they take them to Australia yet there wasn't enough fuel on board, the captains plea to at least make a refuelling stop fell on deaf ears, as they(the terrorists) had read on the inflight magazine that the 767 was able to fly 11 hours non stop and weren't convinced that there wasn't enough fuel.
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Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself.
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@odericko2000
the scenario you are talking about is the official one.
even the most stupid terrorist is able to understand that a plane is just like a car : if the owner's manual indicates a 500 miles range, this is with a full tank.
a few hours after the crash,a CIA and FBI team coming from a nearby african country(may be Kenya ?) arrived and took the recorders from the tail of the plane.
as an aviation professionnal witness,I was welcomed by the Ethiopian Caa inquiry team
staying in same hotel .then after a few days ,this team was totally avoiding me.
so far ,i am not able to find any thoroughout enquiry about this event.
even the most stupid terrorist is able to understand that a plane is just like a car : if the owner's manual indicates a 500 miles range, this is with a full tank.
a few hours after the crash,a CIA and FBI team coming from a nearby african country(may be Kenya ?) arrived and took the recorders from the tail of the plane.
as an aviation professionnal witness,I was welcomed by the Ethiopian Caa inquiry team
staying in same hotel .then after a few days ,this team was totally avoiding me.
so far ,i am not able to find any thoroughout enquiry about this event.
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Makolo, you sound like a pimple faced teenager seating behind a computer and trying to cure your hormonal imbalance by talking k@k on a public forum. Read what you just posted to yourself loudly whilst standing in front of a mirror and see if it makes sense
What hogwash you want to run with that fib and expect people to fall for it. It's people like you that ruin Pprune with your conspiracy theories.
What hogwash you want to run with that fib and expect people to fall for it. It's people like you that ruin Pprune with your conspiracy theories.