Landing FAJS
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Landing FAJS
Hi all,
Just a question which has been picking at me for a while now, so i thought I'd pluck up the courage to ask you guys that know...
Having flown into and out of JHB for many years on pretty much all the international airlines going to Europe, I had an interesting landing about 2 years ago. If I remember correctly, I have always without exception landed on 03R headed north.
On this occasion however (SAA A340 from CDG) we landed headed south (not in itself a strange thing you might say) and I found the landing to be a) rather firm and b) very much longer than normal decelerating.
What I was wondering is whether the different runway config would account for this or if it was just nothing?
For those that fly on this plane I have another question if I may... As we were approaching JHB we were slowly losing altitude (quite normal - I am very used to this) and at what I estimate to be 10 000ft we seemed to flare rather firmly... now I assume that this was just to lose speed rather quickly, but having flown the same route on B747, MD-11, B767 and a few others that I can't think of right now it is the first time that I can ever remember doing so. My question is, is this routine on A340's or was something else going on that we were not aware of?
Just to be clear, I am not slating SAA or AB, on the contrary, it has to go down as one of the most pleasant flights I have ever taken into that part of the world and the A340 is seriously comfortable!!!! can't wait to go on this route again!!!
Thanks for the insight everyone....
Just a question which has been picking at me for a while now, so i thought I'd pluck up the courage to ask you guys that know...
Having flown into and out of JHB for many years on pretty much all the international airlines going to Europe, I had an interesting landing about 2 years ago. If I remember correctly, I have always without exception landed on 03R headed north.
On this occasion however (SAA A340 from CDG) we landed headed south (not in itself a strange thing you might say) and I found the landing to be a) rather firm and b) very much longer than normal decelerating.
What I was wondering is whether the different runway config would account for this or if it was just nothing?
For those that fly on this plane I have another question if I may... As we were approaching JHB we were slowly losing altitude (quite normal - I am very used to this) and at what I estimate to be 10 000ft we seemed to flare rather firmly... now I assume that this was just to lose speed rather quickly, but having flown the same route on B747, MD-11, B767 and a few others that I can't think of right now it is the first time that I can ever remember doing so. My question is, is this routine on A340's or was something else going on that we were not aware of?
Just to be clear, I am not slating SAA or AB, on the contrary, it has to go down as one of the most pleasant flights I have ever taken into that part of the world and the A340 is seriously comfortable!!!! can't wait to go on this route again!!!
Thanks for the insight everyone....
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I don't fly the 340, so this is just my guesswork.
I have paxed around in various large airliners and it seems that the 340 can be a tad difficult to land very softly. It could also be that it was just one of those landings which we all regularly have which just don't go exactly as planned.
RWY 21 in JNB is slightly downhill, so that might account for the longer landing roll, but it probably has to do with the taxiway that the pilots planned to use to vacate the runway. You will normally use reverse and braking commensurate with the planned taxiway.
For the firm level off there could be many possible answers, but it could be that the a/c was being hand-flown and that the pilot started the level off slightly later than the autopilot would.
Like I said, these are just guesses and there could be many other plausible reasons.
I have paxed around in various large airliners and it seems that the 340 can be a tad difficult to land very softly. It could also be that it was just one of those landings which we all regularly have which just don't go exactly as planned.
RWY 21 in JNB is slightly downhill, so that might account for the longer landing roll, but it probably has to do with the taxiway that the pilots planned to use to vacate the runway. You will normally use reverse and braking commensurate with the planned taxiway.
For the firm level off there could be many possible answers, but it could be that the a/c was being hand-flown and that the pilot started the level off slightly later than the autopilot would.
Like I said, these are just guesses and there could be many other plausible reasons.
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shalo - A340
For those that fly on this plane I have another question if I may... As we were approaching JHB we were slowly losing altitude (quite normal - I am very used to this) and at what I estimate to be 10 000ft we seemed to flare rather firmly... now I assume that this was just to lose speed rather quickly, but having flown the same route on B747, MD-11, B767 and a few others that I can't think of right now it is the first time that I can ever remember doing so. My question is, is this routine on A340's or was something else going on that we were not aware of?
Just to be clear, I am not slating SAA or AB, on the contrary, it has to go down as one of the most pleasant flights I have ever taken into that part of the world and the A340 is seriously comfortable!!!! can't wait to go on this route again!!!
Thanks for the insight everyone....
Just to be clear, I am not slating SAA or AB, on the contrary, it has to go down as one of the most pleasant flights I have ever taken into that part of the world and the A340 is seriously comfortable!!!! can't wait to go on this route again!!!
Thanks for the insight everyone....
Airbus designed to glide ? Underpowered ? Not like Boeing. I like both & the MD-11 is one of my favourites.
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In my very limited operation on the Airbus I would assume this is what may have happened....
The A340 is definately alot more difficult to slow down . To make matters worse you arent allowed to use the Speedbrake once you have flaps 3/full selected (on the A340-2/300). Its actually inhibited after flap 2 I think. So the reason you probably felt a "slight flare" at 10 000ft was probably cause the pilot was trying to slow down without using speedbrake . I would assume that at 10 000ft he would be close to the landing config if he was hot and high.
Im not entirely sure if the above is correct but if my more senior peers can shed some light on the issue it would make more sense......
The A340 is definately alot more difficult to slow down . To make matters worse you arent allowed to use the Speedbrake once you have flaps 3/full selected (on the A340-2/300). Its actually inhibited after flap 2 I think. So the reason you probably felt a "slight flare" at 10 000ft was probably cause the pilot was trying to slow down without using speedbrake . I would assume that at 10 000ft he would be close to the landing config if he was hot and high.
Im not entirely sure if the above is correct but if my more senior peers can shed some light on the issue it would make more sense......
Last edited by Ghost_Rider737; 5th Jul 2009 at 15:11.
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Thanks for the insight everyone. 
I should have thought of the handflying and of course the downhill config of runway 21.... grrrrr 
Going back to the "flare", Ghostrider, it makes sense what you are saying - although you say a slight flare, I say a very definate nose up attittude for about 40 - 50 seconds - possibly be the handflying again.
Still, one less thing for me to think about (but I'll keep my eyes out next time I fly into JHB!!!)
PappaAlpha, have you ever done JHB to Maritzburg with Airlinks J41.... try it in stormy weather ? Now that is a fun flight believe me!!!!
I should have thought of the handflying and of course the downhill config of runway 21.... grrrrr Going back to the "flare", Ghostrider, it makes sense what you are saying - although you say a slight flare, I say a very definate nose up attittude for about 40 - 50 seconds - possibly be the handflying again.
Still, one less thing for me to think about (but I'll keep my eyes out next time I fly into JHB!!!)
PappaAlpha, have you ever done JHB to Maritzburg with Airlinks J41.... try it in stormy weather ? Now that is a fun flight believe me!!!!
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Sorry guys but the 340 flies like any other aircraft, and believe me if you have it configured at 10 000 (even for jnb) you should go back to flying 172's. Speculating on what happened is useless, 10 000 is normally just the time to reduce to 250kts. The speedbrake on the 340 2/3 autoretracts at config3. Regarding the landing, the pogo stick (centre gear) can give you a kick in the *rse but all you have to do is delay reverse thrust untill main weels are all firmly planted on terra firma. End of the day the pilot makes the bad landing, not the aircraft! (granted, 340 more difficult than say 747, 777)
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Same as your PC....
double posting?
A level off as experienced by the poster is more than likely the push to level off function on the FCU (fight control unit). Basically selecting a alt hold passing through a level/altitude which the aircraft then does rather promptly.
double posting?A level off as experienced by the poster is more than likely the push to level off function on the FCU (fight control unit). Basically selecting a alt hold passing through a level/altitude which the aircraft then does rather promptly.
