Very Funny Story at JNB ORTIA today
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Gangster Paradise, RSA
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Maurice but you have just shown your total lack of knowledge and experience.
Yeah, sorry, I know, I seem to do that a lot.
I know nothing about a Dash 8 but I assume the refueller supplies fuel to other aircraft as well.
Me neither, but you just told me that already, I guess you're right, I'm sure he does fuel other airplanes.
The aircraft I fly has a maximum pump pressure to be supplied to the pressure rufueling system of the aircraft and can be de-fueled by applying suction at the truck without any cockpit selection.
All pressure fueled airplanes have a max pump pressure, yours is no exception, but this vent thingy bothers me. I agree with you, I'm sure your airplane could be defueled without cockpit selection, however there's a little lip next to the pressure refueling point that he'll have to flip over to allow the fuel to come back out through the pressure refueling point.He can't just suck it out, it's sort of a "check valve", you see.
Many refueling operators chock their trucks like we do our aircraft so they dont roll should the park brake not hold. I have worked for many airlines, all over the world and never have I seen maintenance supervise refuelling.
Could very well be that they chock the fuel trucks, makes sense in regards to your "rolling"statement I guess. Not sure what airlines you worked for, in my non existing experience, the airlines in microsoft flight simulator I guess, refueling is done by our line maintenance guys.
The fuel panel on my aircraft is set in Kg and shuts off the refueling process when the required number of Kg have been uplifted. We do check fuel quantity before departing but errors have happend. There is a well known case of an airliner in the States doing a glide approach as it had run out of fuel due to mix-up between pounds and kilograms.
A fuel truck doesn't pump out kilo's or pounds but liters or gallons. The fuel uplift is in liters, not in kilo's. Your fuel quantity will be displayed on gauges in either Kilo or Pounds. The case you're referring to was a 767 known as the "Gimli Glider" and was in Canada, not part of the "states".
So in summary, let me know if you need me to show you where to earth your microsoft flight simulator. If you ever get to fly a real aeroplane please approach it with a bit more respect for safety.
I don't fly microsoft flight simulator, they fired me, but the day they hire me back, I will definitely take you up on that.
Yeah, sorry, I know, I seem to do that a lot.
I know nothing about a Dash 8 but I assume the refueller supplies fuel to other aircraft as well.
Me neither, but you just told me that already, I guess you're right, I'm sure he does fuel other airplanes.
The aircraft I fly has a maximum pump pressure to be supplied to the pressure rufueling system of the aircraft and can be de-fueled by applying suction at the truck without any cockpit selection.
All pressure fueled airplanes have a max pump pressure, yours is no exception, but this vent thingy bothers me. I agree with you, I'm sure your airplane could be defueled without cockpit selection, however there's a little lip next to the pressure refueling point that he'll have to flip over to allow the fuel to come back out through the pressure refueling point.He can't just suck it out, it's sort of a "check valve", you see.
Many refueling operators chock their trucks like we do our aircraft so they dont roll should the park brake not hold. I have worked for many airlines, all over the world and never have I seen maintenance supervise refuelling.
Could very well be that they chock the fuel trucks, makes sense in regards to your "rolling"statement I guess. Not sure what airlines you worked for, in my non existing experience, the airlines in microsoft flight simulator I guess, refueling is done by our line maintenance guys.
The fuel panel on my aircraft is set in Kg and shuts off the refueling process when the required number of Kg have been uplifted. We do check fuel quantity before departing but errors have happend. There is a well known case of an airliner in the States doing a glide approach as it had run out of fuel due to mix-up between pounds and kilograms.
A fuel truck doesn't pump out kilo's or pounds but liters or gallons. The fuel uplift is in liters, not in kilo's. Your fuel quantity will be displayed on gauges in either Kilo or Pounds. The case you're referring to was a 767 known as the "Gimli Glider" and was in Canada, not part of the "states".
So in summary, let me know if you need me to show you where to earth your microsoft flight simulator. If you ever get to fly a real aeroplane please approach it with a bit more respect for safety.
I don't fly microsoft flight simulator, they fired me, but the day they hire me back, I will definitely take you up on that.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: your sisters house
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
suitcase, not sure where you fly but I've never seen an aircraft at any of the companies I've worked for being fueled without any sort of supervision from the engineer or someone from the flight deck. Not sure what airlines you worked for but they mut be very trusting of the guy driving the truck to let him pump the juice in unsupervised. What kind of aeroplanes were they? Or what were the names of the airlines?
Here in SA, it's fact that SAA,Comair,1time,Mango and even the old Nationwide wont begin fuelling till the Line Engineer or a pilot is there to supervise.
I don't think it's fair that you accuse Maurice of not knowing what he's talking about. Perhaps he's not familiar with the smaller turbo props as the aircraft he's referring to sounds like the 737. To defuel one, the manual defueling valve must be opened and then in the cockpit boost pumps must be slected as well as the crossfeed valve and the number 2 engine fuel start lever must be moved to 'idle cutoff' postition. If you missed a guy in a yellow reflective vest smelling like Jet-A1 in your cockpit doing all that maybe your next eye test isn't going to go so well...
The fuel is delivered in litres and as the guages are in kilo's the quantity is checked by using the Specific Gravity given by the fuelling company for that day. I believe the formula is Uplift Required (in kilos) divided by the SG. That will give you uplift required in litres. Then you subtract that figure from the actual uplift as on the fuel slip and divide the difference and divide that answer again by the uplift required. Times that answer by 100 and you get a percentage with a positive or negative value. In my company if that precentage is more that 3% a drip test is done to acertain the exact amount of fuel in the tanks. This avoides another 767 on a drag strip....
Here in SA, it's fact that SAA,Comair,1time,Mango and even the old Nationwide wont begin fuelling till the Line Engineer or a pilot is there to supervise.
I don't think it's fair that you accuse Maurice of not knowing what he's talking about. Perhaps he's not familiar with the smaller turbo props as the aircraft he's referring to sounds like the 737. To defuel one, the manual defueling valve must be opened and then in the cockpit boost pumps must be slected as well as the crossfeed valve and the number 2 engine fuel start lever must be moved to 'idle cutoff' postition. If you missed a guy in a yellow reflective vest smelling like Jet-A1 in your cockpit doing all that maybe your next eye test isn't going to go so well...
The fuel is delivered in litres and as the guages are in kilo's the quantity is checked by using the Specific Gravity given by the fuelling company for that day. I believe the formula is Uplift Required (in kilos) divided by the SG. That will give you uplift required in litres. Then you subtract that figure from the actual uplift as on the fuel slip and divide the difference and divide that answer again by the uplift required. Times that answer by 100 and you get a percentage with a positive or negative value. In my company if that precentage is more that 3% a drip test is done to acertain the exact amount of fuel in the tanks. This avoides another 767 on a drag strip....
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Milton Keynes-on-sea
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dasher8, your story is funny but provoked some odd replies. So what category does the follwoing fall into? Funny, unfunny, normal, typical etc etc.
Saw a A300F in Iraq recently. Parked with no chocks. Ground crew (6 off) rode up to the freight deck on a fork lift. Fork lift, 5ton capacity, offloaded the pallets with difficulty. Refueller parked under the starboard wing and nobody seemed to notice.
On completion of the unloading, the main freight door wouldn't indicate closed. So the a/c remained on the ground for 3 days before a temporary repair was effected and it flew away!
Now that is NOT funny.
Saw a A300F in Iraq recently. Parked with no chocks. Ground crew (6 off) rode up to the freight deck on a fork lift. Fork lift, 5ton capacity, offloaded the pallets with difficulty. Refueller parked under the starboard wing and nobody seemed to notice.
On completion of the unloading, the main freight door wouldn't indicate closed. So the a/c remained on the ground for 3 days before a temporary repair was effected and it flew away!
Now that is NOT funny.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In another hotel
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engineer supervision
Obviously in the case in point there was no engineer (or pilot supervision) as they would have noticed that there was no fuel line connected to the aircraft. But unfortunately this has once again degenerated into a childish argument about rubbish. The point was simply that the re-fueler is not properly trained and poses a risk to flight safety.
If you disagree with that you should not be flying. Enough said - over and out from me.
If you disagree with that you should not be flying. Enough said - over and out from me.
Last edited by suitcaseman; 18th May 2009 at 15:48.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in the bunk
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dasher
Thanks for the amusing story.
When the aircraft commander or designated crewmember makes the PA announcement, they introduce the crew as Captain or First Officer and nobody gets upset. Why everyone is getting so uptight about your choice of words is beyond me. Perhaps they should get a hobby that doesn't involve pprune.
I am an FO and have no problem being referred to as one. My wife is an ex Hostie / trolley dolley, and after reading this, she reckons some amongst us definately need to take a chill pill.
Again, thanks for the story and I hope that the overwhelming negativity and thread hijacking found here of late, will not deter those who have amusing stories from sharing them with us.
God knows it makes a refreshing change from all the doom and gloom surrounding the industry at the moment.
Thanks for the amusing story.
When the aircraft commander or designated crewmember makes the PA announcement, they introduce the crew as Captain or First Officer and nobody gets upset. Why everyone is getting so uptight about your choice of words is beyond me. Perhaps they should get a hobby that doesn't involve pprune.
I am an FO and have no problem being referred to as one. My wife is an ex Hostie / trolley dolley, and after reading this, she reckons some amongst us definately need to take a chill pill.
Again, thanks for the story and I hope that the overwhelming negativity and thread hijacking found here of late, will not deter those who have amusing stories from sharing them with us.
God knows it makes a refreshing change from all the doom and gloom surrounding the industry at the moment.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Age: 57
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So tell me Sex, if you are so 'proffessional' why don't you try the 'spelchek'? Or have you some how perfected the art without actually being able to spell the word?
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Down the airway.
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, now we will never know if the original story was funny or not because it certainly did not become funny after the telling.
It seems, if you read the first post, that the fuelling was to be done from the underground connections through feeder pipe and storage pits. You cannot defuel into those anyway. The system has its own protection. The method of delivery is typically a Hydrant Refuelling Vehicle, not a fuel truck which description presupposes a tanker.
The Dash 8 - if that is what it were-has its pressure refuelling entry point on the starboard engine nacelle? So can the FO see that from his/her seat-probably yes?
The fuel underground hatches at FAJS are typically deseigned to be under the left wing of an aircraft in relation to the nosewheel park strip guideliner? Just sometimes those hoses are not long enough to reach easily to the right hand side of an aircraft.
That is just some of the triviality ignored by most in a thread which had, by and large, at the end, degenerated into a morass of silly statements.
Danny 1987 had the driving force in a one liner back there.
It seems, if you read the first post, that the fuelling was to be done from the underground connections through feeder pipe and storage pits. You cannot defuel into those anyway. The system has its own protection. The method of delivery is typically a Hydrant Refuelling Vehicle, not a fuel truck which description presupposes a tanker.
The Dash 8 - if that is what it were-has its pressure refuelling entry point on the starboard engine nacelle? So can the FO see that from his/her seat-probably yes?
The fuel underground hatches at FAJS are typically deseigned to be under the left wing of an aircraft in relation to the nosewheel park strip guideliner? Just sometimes those hoses are not long enough to reach easily to the right hand side of an aircraft.
That is just some of the triviality ignored by most in a thread which had, by and large, at the end, degenerated into a morass of silly statements.
Danny 1987 had the driving force in a one liner back there.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Gangster Paradise, RSA
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
suitcase,
It's obvious you jump to conclusions. That being the professional pilot you are, is somewhat alarming when it comes to flight safety. Has it ever crossed your professional mind that maybe, just maybe, this poor refueler had a brainfart? He had forgotten to hook up the fuel hose, what is so dangerous about that? To me it is a funny story. People like you, like to blow things out of proportion, jump to conclusions (hence my multiple replies to you) and that my professional friend, is a safety thread. Now be a good professional pilot, get back in your suitcase and stay there!
It's obvious you jump to conclusions. That being the professional pilot you are, is somewhat alarming when it comes to flight safety. Has it ever crossed your professional mind that maybe, just maybe, this poor refueler had a brainfart? He had forgotten to hook up the fuel hose, what is so dangerous about that? To me it is a funny story. People like you, like to blow things out of proportion, jump to conclusions (hence my multiple replies to you) and that my professional friend, is a safety thread. Now be a good professional pilot, get back in your suitcase and stay there!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tierra del Fuego
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like you have a bit of an issue with authority gradient; i.e. the kind of young, over confident first officer the needs a good re-set in the cockpit.
