Are you impressed by Chalkie world record breaking attempt?
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Digitasoul is just a sad troll, the type you find on most internet forums and waste disposal sites !
Me, I am as happy as could be about Chalkie's flight
Im my view it takes nothing away from the amazing achievement of Henshaw in 1939, and it only enhances that remarkable feat. The fact that it has taken so long to break the record just shows how high Henshaw set the bar in 39 so
to him as well.
Next time someone wants to set a Landspeed record ... do they have to replicate the Bluebird !!!!
Me, I am as happy as could be about Chalkie's flight
Im my view it takes nothing away from the amazing achievement of Henshaw in 1939, and it only enhances that remarkable feat. The fact that it has taken so long to break the record just shows how high Henshaw set the bar in 39 so
to him as well.Next time someone wants to set a Landspeed record ... do they have to replicate the Bluebird !!!!
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Perhaps, Parrot, this is a different kind of record?
Have you beaten Scott's record to the pole if you drive there in a Land Cruiser? You will have the fadster time, sure, but the record? Morally, I think not.
Land speed records are all about technical issues of harnessing brute power, there is little human endurance involved in the "driving" itself, (bar exceptional levels of either bravery or foolhardiness). I don't mean to denigrate Campbell or Greenameyer's skills, but all they had to do was just hit the tit and hang on for a minute or two.
This record was all about a simply staggering feat of endurance, during which high levels of technical skill was all that kept either pilot (be it AH or Chalkie) from certain death. I think the fact that Chalkie achieved what he did at 61 is a pretty sure indicator that the levels of work and fatigue he encountered were vastly, hugely less than AH's. IIRC Alex Henshaw said in Flight of the Mew Gull that the fatigue was the hardest thing to cope with, and it was a 100% effort on his part to overcome it. He very nearly didn't. This from an exceptionally fit sub 30yr old. I just don't think the two flights are directly comparable from this point of view alone. Chalkie barely had to navigate - he had none of the stress forcing himself to stay wide awake and hand flying on limited panel (no AI) through the night holding a non-gyro compass course in the full knowledge that if he was just 2 or 3 degrees off, or his DR speed 3 or 4 Kts off he'd miss the airstrip and probably never find it. He also didn't have the reassurance of an ELT if he did come down in the Congo jungle. With autopilot and GPS you'd be able to doze or catnap as a solo sailor does. Chalk and cheese.
I don't mean to run Chalkie's achievement down at all, it's a stupendous feat, particularly at his age, technology or not. I am just uncomfortable with claiming the laurels with the help of that technology. That he has flown the sectors faster is not in dispute; whether he can honestly lay claim to beating AH's "record" is another thing altogether.
Bloody well done, anyway!
Amazing, though, just how little the aircraft and engine technology hasn't changed. The comparisons of a/c weight, fuel carried and used, horsepower and speed are astonishingly similar. Just shows how far they'd come in AH's time, and how little that science has changed in the intervening 70 years.
Have you beaten Scott's record to the pole if you drive there in a Land Cruiser? You will have the fadster time, sure, but the record? Morally, I think not.
Land speed records are all about technical issues of harnessing brute power, there is little human endurance involved in the "driving" itself, (bar exceptional levels of either bravery or foolhardiness). I don't mean to denigrate Campbell or Greenameyer's skills, but all they had to do was just hit the tit and hang on for a minute or two.
This record was all about a simply staggering feat of endurance, during which high levels of technical skill was all that kept either pilot (be it AH or Chalkie) from certain death. I think the fact that Chalkie achieved what he did at 61 is a pretty sure indicator that the levels of work and fatigue he encountered were vastly, hugely less than AH's. IIRC Alex Henshaw said in Flight of the Mew Gull that the fatigue was the hardest thing to cope with, and it was a 100% effort on his part to overcome it. He very nearly didn't. This from an exceptionally fit sub 30yr old. I just don't think the two flights are directly comparable from this point of view alone. Chalkie barely had to navigate - he had none of the stress forcing himself to stay wide awake and hand flying on limited panel (no AI) through the night holding a non-gyro compass course in the full knowledge that if he was just 2 or 3 degrees off, or his DR speed 3 or 4 Kts off he'd miss the airstrip and probably never find it. He also didn't have the reassurance of an ELT if he did come down in the Congo jungle. With autopilot and GPS you'd be able to doze or catnap as a solo sailor does. Chalk and cheese.
I don't mean to run Chalkie's achievement down at all, it's a stupendous feat, particularly at his age, technology or not. I am just uncomfortable with claiming the laurels with the help of that technology. That he has flown the sectors faster is not in dispute; whether he can honestly lay claim to beating AH's "record" is another thing altogether.
Bloody well done, anyway!
Amazing, though, just how little the aircraft and engine technology hasn't changed. The comparisons of a/c weight, fuel carried and used, horsepower and speed are astonishingly similar. Just shows how far they'd come in AH's time, and how little that science has changed in the intervening 70 years.
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But - the Chalkie did beat the Henshaw statistic record and so well done to him.
I do not see anywhere that the new record holder claims to be a better pilot, finer aviator or greater gentleman for having done so. Thus perhaps it could be sumoarised that the record had been beaten but that perhaps the achievement had not been? Will that possibly keep the trench snipers happy?
Oh yes...Agaricus bisporus...less of the rubbish about the age thing please, lest you wish to encourage commentary about being the fungus of the month!
I do not see anywhere that the new record holder claims to be a better pilot, finer aviator or greater gentleman for having done so. Thus perhaps it could be sumoarised that the record had been beaten but that perhaps the achievement had not been? Will that possibly keep the trench snipers happy?
Oh yes...Agaricus bisporus...less of the rubbish about the age thing please, lest you wish to encourage commentary about being the fungus of the month!
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a couple of rambling comments...
how many attempts had been made to break the record in the last 70 years? Did 50 people try (and fail)? In which case this would be quite a feat. If no one else had tried, how significant is it? How about the record from JNB to Paris? or George to Manchester? There are an infinite number of city pairs, and is this one specially isignificant?
Also, several comments about this being a feat of endurance. In that case, doesn't 4 days 19 hours show MORE endurance than 3 day 10 hours, or whatever the new record was?
how many attempts had been made to break the record in the last 70 years? Did 50 people try (and fail)? In which case this would be quite a feat. If no one else had tried, how significant is it? How about the record from JNB to Paris? or George to Manchester? There are an infinite number of city pairs, and is this one specially isignificant?
Also, several comments about this being a feat of endurance. In that case, doesn't 4 days 19 hours show MORE endurance than 3 day 10 hours, or whatever the new record was?
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digitalsoul
Yes, very impressed.
You might think that if anyone was likely to share your views it would be Henshaw's son.
However, the first person to shake Chalkie's hand and congratulate him on his arrival at Southend was none other than Alex Henshaw Jnr.
I was at Southend and made a point of asking Alex Henshaw Jnr what he thought of the view of some that his father's records should have been allowed to stand, or that breaking them in a modern aircraft with modern avionics doesn't really count.
His response:
Well said Mr Henshaw. 
Nor does the prestigious Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators, a London-based but international organisation, agree with your views.
Two senior representatives of the Guild were at Southend to welcome Chalkie and to acknowledge his efforts - whether or not his attempt was successful.
As it turned out, they were also able to congratulate him on his success in breaking the record from Cape Town.
If breaking Henshaw's records in a 200hp aircraft was as easy as you seem to think, it's surprising that it's taken 70 years for someone to do it.
Chalkie Stobbart succeeded - which means a South African pilot is the new record-holder.
Good for him.
I doubt it. 
Chalkie was already a well-known and highly respected aviator long before his latest achievement.
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Are you impressed by Chalkie world record breaking attempt?
Yes, very impressed.
You might think that if anyone was likely to share your views it would be Henshaw's son.
However, the first person to shake Chalkie's hand and congratulate him on his arrival at Southend was none other than Alex Henshaw Jnr.
I was at Southend and made a point of asking Alex Henshaw Jnr what he thought of the view of some that his father's records should have been allowed to stand, or that breaking them in a modern aircraft with modern avionics doesn't really count.
His response:
"I disagree. I'm pleased pilots are trying to break my father's records, and I believe my father would be. He knew his records would be broken one day. It's easier in some ways now but more difficult in others, and it's still an enormous feat for a solo pilot in a single engine aircraft.
I think it's good that Chalkie has limited himself to 200 hp but, apart from that, you can't recreate how things were 70 years ago. I don't think breaking the records in a modern aircraft in any way diminishes what my father achieved in 1939. That still stands. This is different. It just reflects how aviation has progressed since then.
I'm pleased Chalkie's efforts are drawing attention again to what my father achieved. It had been forgotten, which is understandable. Many people weren't born when he did it; I wasn't myself.
I think it will boost people's interest in General Aviation, and hope it will encourage other pilots to try."
I think it's good that Chalkie has limited himself to 200 hp but, apart from that, you can't recreate how things were 70 years ago. I don't think breaking the records in a modern aircraft in any way diminishes what my father achieved in 1939. That still stands. This is different. It just reflects how aviation has progressed since then.
I'm pleased Chalkie's efforts are drawing attention again to what my father achieved. It had been forgotten, which is understandable. Many people weren't born when he did it; I wasn't myself.
I think it will boost people's interest in General Aviation, and hope it will encourage other pilots to try."
Nor does the prestigious Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators, a London-based but international organisation, agree with your views.
Two senior representatives of the Guild were at Southend to welcome Chalkie and to acknowledge his efforts - whether or not his attempt was successful.
As it turned out, they were also able to congratulate him on his success in breaking the record from Cape Town.
If breaking Henshaw's records in a 200hp aircraft was as easy as you seem to think, it's surprising that it's taken 70 years for someone to do it.
Chalkie Stobbart succeeded - which means a South African pilot is the new record-holder.
Good for him.
I think he just wanted to earn fame the easy way
Chalkie was already a well-known and highly respected aviator long before his latest achievement.
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Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 12th May 2009 at 16:31.
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Only just noticed this
Of course, and just exactly what have you done lately that matches (or surpasses) Chalkie's achievement?
I think he just wanted to earn fame the easy way
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So, 70 yrs ago, someone goes very far very "quickly" with very little help.
So, recently someone repeats said feat, slightly "faster" with the following, GPS, oodles of experience, flight planning, up to date Met, modern technology, etc etc etc............the list goes on.
Bravo and well done, lovely trip, but in no way is it comparable.............im sure both were knackered, but having 2009 technology on your side, must have been very reassuring.
A record may have been broken, but the spirit of the original feat shall linger.............
So, recently someone repeats said feat, slightly "faster" with the following, GPS, oodles of experience, flight planning, up to date Met, modern technology, etc etc etc............the list goes on.
Bravo and well done, lovely trip, but in no way is it comparable.............im sure both were knackered, but having 2009 technology on your side, must have been very reassuring.
A record may have been broken, but the spirit of the original feat shall linger.............
Get a life, people
Yeah, there are always a few out there - those who cannot recognise the achievements of others. Much easier to devalue, degrade and denigrate, presumably to feel better about their own dull lives?
How many of us had ever heard of Henshaw before this? Chalkies achievement is a celebration of the original feat.
For better (or for worse, as some will say) there are sure to be more attempts on this record, so then you can all knock the next guy and give Chalkie a break.
How many of us had ever heard of Henshaw before this? Chalkies achievement is a celebration of the original feat.
For better (or for worse, as some will say) there are sure to be more attempts on this record, so then you can all knock the next guy and give Chalkie a break.
Oh grow up children! Both of them did bloody well and thank God there are people out there that want to push the limits.
I say well done to them both.
The record is now a South African one and I know for a fact Mr Henshaw would be applauding it.
Now can we go back to moaning about something worth while?
I say well done to them both.
The record is now a South African one and I know for a fact Mr Henshaw would be applauding it.
Now can we go back to moaning about something worth while?
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Your comments about Chalkies flight being an easy feat and being a 'bought' record just illustrate what a mediocre aviator you must be with no real world experience. Anyone who'se flown any kind of light aircraft long distances by themselves will know how much strain and fatigue ones system takes.
Fly a C404 from Madagascar to FALA direct at night with no auto-jock or a Dornier from Loki to JNB in one day with no autopilot either and tell me how knackered you'd be after that. Thats with GPS, the mind set of having 2 engines and if your lucky someone to share the flying with and even then thats only for 8 or 9 hours. The answer is VERY knackered.
Now picture at 61 years of age, flying a little 200hp piston single over all that jungle and sand etc, all by yourself, pissing in a nappy with no weather radar in the ITCZ for just under 4 days...
I say its an achievement and a half, big respect for Chalkie. Also it highlights just what an amazing feat Sir Alex achieved in 1939. Hats off to you gents
Fly a C404 from Madagascar to FALA direct at night with no auto-jock or a Dornier from Loki to JNB in one day with no autopilot either and tell me how knackered you'd be after that. Thats with GPS, the mind set of having 2 engines and if your lucky someone to share the flying with and even then thats only for 8 or 9 hours. The answer is VERY knackered.
Now picture at 61 years of age, flying a little 200hp piston single over all that jungle and sand etc, all by yourself, pissing in a nappy with no weather radar in the ITCZ for just under 4 days...
I say its an achievement and a half, big respect for Chalkie. Also it highlights just what an amazing feat Sir Alex achieved in 1939. Hats off to you gents
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FL and LM,
Well said! I've ferried a number of helicopters from various parts of Europe to various parts of Africa, some 2 pilot and some single pilot, the last, single pilot when I was 59 years old and I can testify that even with modern aids it's hard work. I remember doing it without GPS back in the old days and there were obviously more worries about holding headings and airspeeds to help with the DR, but even these days the weather and nature of the hostile terrain are unchanged and ATC, met forecasting and refuelling facilities in most of Africa are pretty unchanged in the last 30 years. Irrespective of whether he had broken Alex Henshaw's old record, Chalkie should be proud of his achievement at his age.
I echo LittleMo's sentiments - hats off to both of you gents
Well said!
I've ferried a number of helicopters from various parts of Europe to various parts of Africa, some 2 pilot and some single pilot, the last, single pilot when I was 59 years old and I can testify that even with modern aids it's hard work. I remember doing it without GPS back in the old days and there were obviously more worries about holding headings and airspeeds to help with the DR, but even these days the weather and nature of the hostile terrain are unchanged and ATC, met forecasting and refuelling facilities in most of Africa are pretty unchanged in the last 30 years. Irrespective of whether he had broken Alex Henshaw's old record, Chalkie should be proud of his achievement at his age. I echo LittleMo's sentiments - hats off to both of you gents
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Am I impressed? Damn straight!
Chalkie may have had some whizzy electronics but they didn't all work. Back to the old-fashioned way........... and as far as I know the weather in Africa hasn't improved greatly since Henshaw's day.
Henshaw had the time and money to do a complete recce flight beforehand. Don't think Chalkie had that advantage. And he was in better physical shape than a man half his age.
If GA was actually in the twenty-first century Chalkie would have zipped along at 400kts in an oil burner with autoland. As it was he had few actual advantages - good fuel injection, GPS and satellite tracking. Big deal. We might have known if he came to grief but wouldn't have been able to do much about it. The rest was pretty much as Henshaw did it.
Chalkie may have had some whizzy electronics but they didn't all work. Back to the old-fashioned way........... and as far as I know the weather in Africa hasn't improved greatly since Henshaw's day.
Henshaw had the time and money to do a complete recce flight beforehand. Don't think Chalkie had that advantage. And he was in better physical shape than a man half his age.
If GA was actually in the twenty-first century Chalkie would have zipped along at 400kts in an oil burner with autoland. As it was he had few actual advantages - good fuel injection, GPS and satellite tracking. Big deal. We might have known if he came to grief but wouldn't have been able to do much about it. The rest was pretty much as Henshaw did it.
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With a name like 'digitalsoul' (which does not sound old school at all!!!), what can you expect.
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While I have sod all experience flying anything other than paper jets and my MS 2004 Flight Simulator, I have been following this flight with more than a passing interest. I am intrigued by the various comments posted re this record. Some points to think about.
Who issued the challenge ? Alex Henshaw issued the challenge. If you look on the Alex Henshaw Challenge web site, apart from modern avionics, both aircraft were very similar in performance. Yes Alex would have experienced a greater "effort" in actual flying havng no auto pilot and navigating via slide rule compass and stop watch - however, that was the norm in those days so it was obviously not a "show stopper" for him. Perhaps one could argue that Alex had age on his side to compensate.
I would agree that Chalkie's flight carried less risk in the case of a problem manifesting itself. That's because we live with today's technology. One could then argue that Alex's flight was less risky than Charles Lindbergh's cross Atlantic flight back in 1927 - The "Spirit of St Louis" was far less "advanced" than the Mew Gull. So using some arguements put forward on this post, Alex's record was "less impressive" than Charles Lindbergh's. And one could then compare Charles Lindbergh against the Wright Brothers against Joseph-Michel Montgolfier against Icarus and Daedalus - a "silly arguement" I would venture.
As far as I am concerned, It's a GREAT bit of flying and it took 70 years for someone to achieve a better time than Alex did back then. It refocused a huge amount of attention on both Chalkie as well as Alex Henshaw, as it should. In closing, commeth the hour, commeth the man !!!
Who issued the challenge ? Alex Henshaw issued the challenge. If you look on the Alex Henshaw Challenge web site, apart from modern avionics, both aircraft were very similar in performance. Yes Alex would have experienced a greater "effort" in actual flying havng no auto pilot and navigating via slide rule compass and stop watch - however, that was the norm in those days so it was obviously not a "show stopper" for him. Perhaps one could argue that Alex had age on his side to compensate.
I would agree that Chalkie's flight carried less risk in the case of a problem manifesting itself. That's because we live with today's technology. One could then argue that Alex's flight was less risky than Charles Lindbergh's cross Atlantic flight back in 1927 - The "Spirit of St Louis" was far less "advanced" than the Mew Gull. So using some arguements put forward on this post, Alex's record was "less impressive" than Charles Lindbergh's. And one could then compare Charles Lindbergh against the Wright Brothers against Joseph-Michel Montgolfier against Icarus and Daedalus - a "silly arguement" I would venture.
As far as I am concerned, It's a GREAT bit of flying and it took 70 years for someone to achieve a better time than Alex did back then. It refocused a huge amount of attention on both Chalkie as well as Alex Henshaw, as it should. In closing, commeth the hour, commeth the man !!!
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Your Challenge Then
O.K. Digital Soul, build a plane in your garage or livingroom, and fly it to the UK and back, without all Chalkie's superelectronics, and break the record af A.H. In fact, I will draw you the plans for a Mew Gull so you can build it, fly it, and impress us all...and most importantly, impress yourself...KRONOS personally doesnt think you have the balls nor the flying skills to drive a single seater that stalls at 80 kts...across Africa and back, KRONOS however knows Chalkie Stobbart, he is a very nice guy who has done more to promote flying among the mere mortals than anyone on this thread, he was Chairman of South Africa's E.A.A. for many years, he has crossed the Atlantic twice to Oshkosh, once in RV6 ZU-EAA, once in a WW2 Fairchild, Digital Soul, what have you done to promote general aviation today?????
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I can only conclude that those ignorant few who would try and marginalise Chalkie's achievement have no concept of record breaking and obviously no relevant aviation experience that puts them in a position to pass comment. Flying a twitchy homebuilt light aircraft through the ITCZ at night with only a wing leveller to assist, with no weather radar or stormscope, and that while fatigued from days of flying is a feat in itself.
As someone mentioned earlier, breaking the record has taken nothing away from Alex Henshaw's original achievement - in fact it has heightened his profile and I am sure will inspire many pilots to go and read his brilliant books "Flight of the Mew Gull" and "Sigh For a Merlin". I myself am in awe of Henshaw flying his tricky little Mew Gull the length of Europe and Africa, a good portion at night, navigating only by map and compass. It is the nature of record breaking to use the latest equipment available - what would the point be otherwise - we would still be trying to break world landspeed records using horse driven carriages if this were not the case!
As someone mentioned earlier, breaking the record has taken nothing away from Alex Henshaw's original achievement - in fact it has heightened his profile and I am sure will inspire many pilots to go and read his brilliant books "Flight of the Mew Gull" and "Sigh For a Merlin". I myself am in awe of Henshaw flying his tricky little Mew Gull the length of Europe and Africa, a good portion at night, navigating only by map and compass. It is the nature of record breaking to use the latest equipment available - what would the point be otherwise - we would still be trying to break world landspeed records using horse driven carriages if this were not the case!