JAR fATPL vs. SACAA
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JAR fATPL vs. SACAA
Right, I have searched every conceivable forum and followed as many threads as possible, I have also sat on hold with the CAA both in South Africa and also the UK, so in the hope of shedding some light on my question (so apologies if this has cropped up before) I would love some input from people who have perhaps discussed this before.
Me: Currently just returned from SA after getting PPL
Plan: Study to ATPL level and ultimately aim for an airline job.
Dilemma: Job market for newbies in European airlines virtually non-existent, hence I'm not particularily tempted to go down a cabair style integrated ATPL course and find that £60,000 later I am still playing flight simulator 2004 with household pets as 'passengers' - I am tempted by taking up the JAR ATPL groundschooling and getting a fATPL, but with no airline jobs how to hourbuild? Decided to return to SA with the aim of instructing to hourbuild after finding a sympathetic FTO that is prepared to take me on as an instructor after I have completed a CPL and IR with them.
Several questions arise here - Will I have to redo my CAA CPL theory exams once in SA, despite having already passed the broader ATPL examinations, I know that the ATPL theory will be JAR, however according to the SACAA part 61.01.04 the commissioner will recognise foreign licenses if they are to an equivalent or higher, so is there another reason that flight schools in SA are telling me that I will have to redo the theory exams?
I would really like to do my theory here in the UK as there are precious few places licensed to perform the exams in SA and if the FTO is not close to one of these it is a major pain given the vastness of the country (by UK standards!).
Also as JAR ATPL appears to be the weapon of choice with most of you guys what is the general consensus on hour building to meet the practical requirements of said licence if one does not line up for a phantom airline job, especially in the areas of multicrew experience and instrument time?
As I see it, I have 3 years from issue of fATPL to get the experience and this doesn't seem possible - would I be better off studying for my CPL, despite the fact that then studying for an ATPL will be repetition of 2/3rds of my CPL course???
Any thoughts would be appreciated provided that they don't involve retraining as a vet
.
Me: Currently just returned from SA after getting PPL
Plan: Study to ATPL level and ultimately aim for an airline job.
Dilemma: Job market for newbies in European airlines virtually non-existent, hence I'm not particularily tempted to go down a cabair style integrated ATPL course and find that £60,000 later I am still playing flight simulator 2004 with household pets as 'passengers' - I am tempted by taking up the JAR ATPL groundschooling and getting a fATPL, but with no airline jobs how to hourbuild? Decided to return to SA with the aim of instructing to hourbuild after finding a sympathetic FTO that is prepared to take me on as an instructor after I have completed a CPL and IR with them.
Several questions arise here - Will I have to redo my CAA CPL theory exams once in SA, despite having already passed the broader ATPL examinations, I know that the ATPL theory will be JAR, however according to the SACAA part 61.01.04 the commissioner will recognise foreign licenses if they are to an equivalent or higher, so is there another reason that flight schools in SA are telling me that I will have to redo the theory exams?
I would really like to do my theory here in the UK as there are precious few places licensed to perform the exams in SA and if the FTO is not close to one of these it is a major pain given the vastness of the country (by UK standards!).
Also as JAR ATPL appears to be the weapon of choice with most of you guys what is the general consensus on hour building to meet the practical requirements of said licence if one does not line up for a phantom airline job, especially in the areas of multicrew experience and instrument time?
As I see it, I have 3 years from issue of fATPL to get the experience and this doesn't seem possible - would I be better off studying for my CPL, despite the fact that then studying for an ATPL will be repetition of 2/3rds of my CPL course???
Any thoughts would be appreciated provided that they don't involve retraining as a vet
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I suggest that you go to the SA:CAA and speak to the Head of Flight Crew Licensing. There are established procedures for this kind of thing and you will most likely be credited for you have done already.
The route you plan sounds pretty realistic to me.
Fly well,
P&F
The route you plan sounds pretty realistic to me.
Fly well,
P&F
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So you have a SA PPL, want to write the 14 JAR ATPL subjects and then do all your flight training in SA, and take a SA CPL/MEIR flight test and get a SA CPL issued on this basis, while writing no SA exams?
I don't think that'll work, you'll need to write exams in SA too. If you had a JAR CPL you could get a validation on it (involves writing some SA exams too I beleive), but what I beleive you now can do in SA is go straight to writing the ATPL exams there.
I don't think that'll work, you'll need to write exams in SA too. If you had a JAR CPL you could get a validation on it (involves writing some SA exams too I beleive), but what I beleive you now can do in SA is go straight to writing the ATPL exams there.
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JAA fATPL is far far better than SACAA, unless you happen to be a minority or previously disadvantaged person.
Pack you bags okes - the RSA, aka Zimbabwe II, will be tumbling under Zuma.
But I understand there are heaps of jobs in Europe, especially for those with flight times. Might consider getting both, building your time with some of the contract companies like ET or Solenta, then self-sponsoring a type and going to Europe. With 2000 hours and a Boeing or Airbus type rating you should have no problems getting a job in Europe no matter where, provided you have citizenship.
WDaron
Pack you bags okes - the RSA, aka Zimbabwe II, will be tumbling under Zuma.
But I understand there are heaps of jobs in Europe, especially for those with flight times. Might consider getting both, building your time with some of the contract companies like ET or Solenta, then self-sponsoring a type and going to Europe. With 2000 hours and a Boeing or Airbus type rating you should have no problems getting a job in Europe no matter where, provided you have citizenship.
WDaron
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Get those hours!
Hi Dave1234,
After writing all the SA:CAA licences and other exams that there are/were e.g. CPL, Instructors, Turbine Instructors, ATPL and MNPS, I can tell you that there is no easy way! You did say that there was a sympathetic FTO in South Africa that would let you work as an instructor. With a global recession affecting everyone, I would say that you need to grab any opportunity with both hands. If that is in SA then you'll need to get a SA licence in order to go for it. You will be hour building and earning a living as a professional pilot. This can eventually lead to other opportunities, but you need to start somewhere. After reaching "the end of the line" in SA, so to speak, I did a FAA ATPL and then, with 7000 hrs experience, wrote the 14 UK ATPL sudjects and now have all three licences! And I am by no means the only South African pilot that has done this either!
What it does require is determination and commitment on your behalf.
I wish you well in your endeavours.
After writing all the SA:CAA licences and other exams that there are/were e.g. CPL, Instructors, Turbine Instructors, ATPL and MNPS, I can tell you that there is no easy way! You did say that there was a sympathetic FTO in South Africa that would let you work as an instructor. With a global recession affecting everyone, I would say that you need to grab any opportunity with both hands. If that is in SA then you'll need to get a SA licence in order to go for it. You will be hour building and earning a living as a professional pilot. This can eventually lead to other opportunities, but you need to start somewhere. After reaching "the end of the line" in SA, so to speak, I did a FAA ATPL and then, with 7000 hrs experience, wrote the 14 UK ATPL sudjects and now have all three licences! And I am by no means the only South African pilot that has done this either!
What it does require is determination and commitment on your behalf.
I wish you well in your endeavours.
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Cheers David
Well I think I shall head for the instructing route then - appreciate it's going to be hard work to carve a career out of aviation, especially at the moment, but I am really not obsessed (fortunately) with going straight to an airline - I think it will actually be much more fun to do some of the less 'prestigious' jobs prior to that, especially if the search for work takes me to some of the more 'interesting' parts of rural Africa...bit of an adventure and all that, albeit one that I do not expect to bring me riches! Cheers for the advice, I shall hold off on the fATPL for the time being.
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Well done,David,finally you came up to a right conclusion.Instructing is the best thing that will probably happen to you , squeeze your balls between your legs and stop asking everybody for advices,you are a grown up man now,if you want to fly-go for it,everything will be fine,trust me-no need to worry....And good luck,mate,I've known you for a while,so I know you'll make it!
