Wheels up in Lanseria
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Wheels up in Lanseria
Whats happening with the G.A scene in south africa? The DRC seems to be much safer now.
Am told a Baron did a wheels up landing at Lanseria this afternoon. Anyone has further info?
Am told a Baron did a wheels up landing at Lanseria this afternoon. Anyone has further info?
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hey young man , don't be too quick to criticise .....
In my youth in Kenya aviation we reckoned there were 2 types of pilots , those who had done a wheels-up and those who hadn't - yet !!
A great buddy of mine has just retired after many years of worldwide flying /Atlantic crossings , an instructor on 757 and ETOPS expert , his entire career blemish-free except for 1 day of wheels-up in his youth - I don't think he has one grey hair over it . After all , he landed on the correct airstrip , they all stepped out , the aircraft was jacked up and flown out a few hours later .
Watch your back.............and never say it could not happen to you.
In my youth in Kenya aviation we reckoned there were 2 types of pilots , those who had done a wheels-up and those who hadn't - yet !!
A great buddy of mine has just retired after many years of worldwide flying /Atlantic crossings , an instructor on 757 and ETOPS expert , his entire career blemish-free except for 1 day of wheels-up in his youth - I don't think he has one grey hair over it . After all , he landed on the correct airstrip , they all stepped out , the aircraft was jacked up and flown out a few hours later .
Watch your back.............and never say it could not happen to you.
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What an entry
Have to admit that his circuit entry was spectactular.
Reminded me of cropspraying days....tight and fast.
The wheels were down on short finals...(as was the flaps).
But then again after the spectacular 360's on the ground and the dust had settled, all that was down was still the flaps. (got to give him that).
Ah well, glad that he was able to dust off his boots, push his stetson back, light up that camel, check his steed out...then phone the boss and tell him where to post his pay cheque.
Goffel..
Reminded me of cropspraying days....tight and fast.
The wheels were down on short finals...(as was the flaps).
But then again after the spectacular 360's on the ground and the dust had settled, all that was down was still the flaps. (got to give him that).
Ah well, glad that he was able to dust off his boots, push his stetson back, light up that camel, check his steed out...then phone the boss and tell him where to post his pay cheque.
Goffel..
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This was no wheels up
Goffel was spot on, we were there, the wheels were down.After touch down me thinks the good old Baron gear lever/flap lever confused somebody.CRUNCH AND THERE WERE ABOUT 3 /360"S
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Approx 223 degrees in total
Got to admit...my day worked out fantastically....in fact it could not have worked out better.
Mmmmm...are you suggesting that I did not see any wheels on short finals....Ok...so I was wrong....it was not a camel, it was a Winston...and yes, 360...I suppose the eye can be wrong...90 + 90 = 180....but then again snaking and snaking is still snaking.
Oh yes, the pay cheque is not in the post.
Goffel....having another fantastic day..
Mmmmm...are you suggesting that I did not see any wheels on short finals....Ok...so I was wrong....it was not a camel, it was a Winston...and yes, 360...I suppose the eye can be wrong...90 + 90 = 180....but then again snaking and snaking is still snaking.
Oh yes, the pay cheque is not in the post.
Goffel....having another fantastic day..
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In which year was it that Beechcraft changed the positioning of the flap and gear levers in Barons aircraft?
Did they also do this in Bonanza?
What is the local procedure in South Africa for GA after landing checks?
Do you clear active, stop, perform checks and taxi to stand.
Do you perform checks on runway after landing?
Do you perform checks on taxiing to stand - moving?
Probably nothing to do with accident at all-just airmanship question?
Did they also do this in Bonanza?
What is the local procedure in South Africa for GA after landing checks?
Do you clear active, stop, perform checks and taxi to stand.
Do you perform checks on runway after landing?
Do you perform checks on taxiing to stand - moving?
Probably nothing to do with accident at all-just airmanship question?
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There were no 360's at all. I know this for a fact. The gear was extended on landing and retracted instead of flaps.
The aircraft slid along the runway and at the end of the slide hit a light on the runway edge and swung through 90 and stopped.
Considering i was on the runway with photographs of the marks on the runway it if did any 360's this Baron/UFO needed to hover off the ground do the 360's and land back on the exact same spot and continue sliding in the same direction.
Hardly likely.
Inaccurate information does nobody any good.
The aircraft slid along the runway and at the end of the slide hit a light on the runway edge and swung through 90 and stopped.
Considering i was on the runway with photographs of the marks on the runway it if did any 360's this Baron/UFO needed to hover off the ground do the 360's and land back on the exact same spot and continue sliding in the same direction.
Hardly likely.
Inaccurate information does nobody any good.
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The point is ???
1900 Hot - Puppy.
The gear...was it definitely down or were you just told it was down.
Did he definitely lift the flaps instead of the gear...or were you also told this.
Whether he got out, tilted his stetson, lit up a camel, eyed his broken steed and then sent smoke signals to his boss of where to send his pay cheque is actually not the point....just like whether he did 10 360's or just a couple of loops on the ground
The point is, the pilots joining of finals to land was not what I would call professional, just like any person who is in such a hurry to lift the flaps without actually looking to see whether he has the flap lever or the gear lever, especially whilst still in the middle of your landing roll.
The above paragraph is what I would call a very un-professional pilot, who is out to impress whoever is on the ground watching his approach and landing roll and is the very attitude that I certainly would not want in my company.
Did he do exactly the above on his last Proff check....I most certainly doubt it.
But then again, what do I know, I'm only a student microlight wannabe pilot who is a desk jockey and who knows nothing about aviation..
Goffel.....could not have had a better evening as last night....
The gear...was it definitely down or were you just told it was down.
Did he definitely lift the flaps instead of the gear...or were you also told this.
Whether he got out, tilted his stetson, lit up a camel, eyed his broken steed and then sent smoke signals to his boss of where to send his pay cheque is actually not the point....just like whether he did 10 360's or just a couple of loops on the ground
The point is, the pilots joining of finals to land was not what I would call professional, just like any person who is in such a hurry to lift the flaps without actually looking to see whether he has the flap lever or the gear lever, especially whilst still in the middle of your landing roll.
The above paragraph is what I would call a very un-professional pilot, who is out to impress whoever is on the ground watching his approach and landing roll and is the very attitude that I certainly would not want in my company.
Did he do exactly the above on his last Proff check....I most certainly doubt it.
But then again, what do I know, I'm only a student microlight wannabe pilot who is a desk jockey and who knows nothing about aviation..
Goffel.....could not have had a better evening as last night....
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"The biggest change to the airplane came in 1984, when a 300-HP Continental IO-550 replaced the IO-520. There was an all-new (and very well laid out) instrument panel. Gone was the trademark Bonanza "throwover" control wheel with its massive central column in favor of a pair of ordinary control yokes."
The Baron and Bonanza changed to a more conventional flap/gear handle in 1984 also.
The Baron and Bonanza changed to a more conventional flap/gear handle in 1984 also.
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Thank you Tony Williams.
I think this change of levers has caused problems in the past. Perhaps not this time. Who can say - but I remembers the first time I found this difference in the Baron. It is easily done mistake - especially if in one big hurry -speedy pilot?
I think this change of levers has caused problems in the past. Perhaps not this time. Who can say - but I remembers the first time I found this difference in the Baron. It is easily done mistake - especially if in one big hurry -speedy pilot?
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I was wondering if the landing gear was down and locked why the placement of the landing gear selector and flap selector would make any difference? Surely you would not reduce flap on short final, if anything I would have thought you would want to increase the flap setting. Common sense dictates that a selector lever operates in a normal sense i.e. gear selector lever push down for gear down and up for gear up, while a flap selector would be moved down to increase flap (flaps down) and up to decrease flap (flaps up).
So, even if I confuse the two selector levers on short final (a difficult thing to do but by no means impossible in the right circumstances), and use the gear lever to try and increase flap I wouldn't be pulling up the gear, and should I select the flap lever to put down the gear I would just be increasing the flap setting, which I am sure we can all agree is a lot better than decreasing the flap setting at such a critical time in the flight.
Also, presuming the aeroplane is on the ground rolling out after landing, and I try to clean up the airframe and do the after landing checks before exiting the runway ( a naughty thing to do that earned me a slap around the head from one of my instructors when I tried it), and instead of raising flaps I pull the gear selector lever up, thereby selecting gear up, isn't there supposed to be an inhibitor switch that prevents the gear from cycling while there's weight on them?
Not pointing fingers at anyone, the Dear knows we are all of us fallible, however if the gear was down and out, and if the aeroplane had all three wheels in contact with the tarmac surely you would not be able to pull up your gear and land a few feet lower than planned?
Can anyone intimately familiar with the Baron comment on whether it has such an inhibitor switch?
So, even if I confuse the two selector levers on short final (a difficult thing to do but by no means impossible in the right circumstances), and use the gear lever to try and increase flap I wouldn't be pulling up the gear, and should I select the flap lever to put down the gear I would just be increasing the flap setting, which I am sure we can all agree is a lot better than decreasing the flap setting at such a critical time in the flight.
Also, presuming the aeroplane is on the ground rolling out after landing, and I try to clean up the airframe and do the after landing checks before exiting the runway ( a naughty thing to do that earned me a slap around the head from one of my instructors when I tried it), and instead of raising flaps I pull the gear selector lever up, thereby selecting gear up, isn't there supposed to be an inhibitor switch that prevents the gear from cycling while there's weight on them?
Not pointing fingers at anyone, the Dear knows we are all of us fallible, however if the gear was down and out, and if the aeroplane had all three wheels in contact with the tarmac surely you would not be able to pull up your gear and land a few feet lower than planned?
Can anyone intimately familiar with the Baron comment on whether it has such an inhibitor switch?
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I once saw a guy in a BMW cruising down the yellow lane with hazzards on in traffic
... I thought to myself, What an A$$... Typical rich guy in a bmw, non standard driving
... I`m sure he didnt do thet when he got his license...
Then I thought again
... Maybe hes child is lying in hospital and he just found out that there was a shootout at the childs school...
Made me feel like a bit of an A$$...
I think if you were sitting next to the guy you could say this and that...
... I thought to myself, What an A$$... Typical rich guy in a bmw, non standard driving... I`m sure he didnt do thet when he got his license...Then I thought again
... Maybe hes child is lying in hospital and he just found out that there was a shootout at the childs school...Made me feel like a bit of an A$$...
I think if you were sitting next to the guy you could say this and that...
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Yes Sea Duck, I agree. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, however I don't think anyone's intention is to try and point fingers, or second guess the pilot on the ill-fated Baron in question.
If someone who reads this forum can learn about a built-in gotcha on a certain aircraft in time to prevent a, (perhaps fatal), re-occurrence through intelligent discussion, rather than his own real world experience, it has to be a good thing.
Reading forums like this gives us all the benefit of the thousands of hours real life experience by other pilots the world over, and it certainly shortens the learning curve.
That's what makes pilots different.
If someone who reads this forum can learn about a built-in gotcha on a certain aircraft in time to prevent a, (perhaps fatal), re-occurrence through intelligent discussion, rather than his own real world experience, it has to be a good thing.
Reading forums like this gives us all the benefit of the thousands of hours real life experience by other pilots the world over, and it certainly shortens the learning curve.
That's what makes pilots different.
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Okay...here are two gotchas.
Baron changed position leavers of gear and flap over in 1984?
Easy then for pilot to raise gear switch on ground instead of flap. Bad airmanship maybe but there we are.
Yes, micro inhibits-in theory but it is a weight switch (on left oleo) (?)
Other gotcha then-what is big deal if Baron or Seneca door not latched and 'opens' on roatation. Airflow is making impossible for passenger to hurl outside. Return to field.
Wassa big deal? Not an emergency, maybe a little precaution.
Baron changed position leavers of gear and flap over in 1984?
Easy then for pilot to raise gear switch on ground instead of flap. Bad airmanship maybe but there we are.
Yes, micro inhibits-in theory but it is a weight switch (on left oleo) (?)
Other gotcha then-what is big deal if Baron or Seneca door not latched and 'opens' on roatation. Airflow is making impossible for passenger to hurl outside. Return to field.
Wassa big deal? Not an emergency, maybe a little precaution.
