There goes more of my tax money. SAA loose money again
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There goes more of my tax money. SAA lo"o"se money again
SAA have lost another R1.2 billion during the last financial year.
That is R 3 million per day.
Better?
That is R 3 million per day.
Johannesburg - - State-owned airline South African Airways (SAA) on Wednesday said it had turned around its business, posting a R123m net profit for the year to end March 2008. But this figure excludes restructuring costs of R1.3bn, which, once taken into account, means that the airline posted a loss of R1.1bn.
Total revenue was up 9% from R20.7bn in FY07 to R22.5bn in FY08.
Total revenue was up 9% from R20.7bn in FY07 to R22.5bn in FY08.
Last edited by Ibhayi; 17th Jul 2008 at 14:58.
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I know that this is slightly off the topic of the losses made by SAA, but I would love to know what the actual load figures are on the London to Johannesburg route, I have been in the UK for quite a while now and come back to SA as much as I can, however when I try to book on SAA they are always at least £100 more than everyone else?? It is July now PEAK UK –SA time and a mate of mine flew in on the 340-600 the other morning and said that there were no more than 150 passengers on board the aeroplane!!
Perhaps this route and their silly pricing structure for the tickets goes a long way towards the R3 million a day loss…..
Perhaps this route and their silly pricing structure for the tickets goes a long way towards the R3 million a day loss…..
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To put it in context:-
SAA flies 7 mil odd pax. They lost R1100 MILLION. So give each passenger, international, regional and domestic, R157.14 each and tell them to go fly elsewhere. This is on the top of the BILLIONS they have lost in the last 10 yrs.
Said it once, will say it again. SELL IT!! Let SAA sink or swim.
SAA flies 7 mil odd pax. They lost R1100 MILLION. So give each passenger, international, regional and domestic, R157.14 each and tell them to go fly elsewhere. This is on the top of the BILLIONS they have lost in the last 10 yrs.
Said it once, will say it again. SELL IT!! Let SAA sink or swim.
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If the goverment wants to appoint an idiot to run the airline they must be prepared to pay when he can't deliver. Easy.
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FROM AN AVCOM POST (A FORUM WHERE FAR LESS WHINGEING OCCURS):
This report - esp the title - is Mischievous.
I was there.
SAA wants to convert its borrowings to equity. ie instead of owing the banks R5 Bn it wants its shareholder to convert the debt to equity. This means that it will be paying the state a dividend rather than interest to the banks.
The airline says it made IINM a R230m profit despite the oil price increase from a budgeted $85 / barrel to $140..
This fuel increase added R900 mn to the costs.
A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three thousand times the memory.
This report - esp the title - is Mischievous.
I was there.
SAA wants to convert its borrowings to equity. ie instead of owing the banks R5 Bn it wants its shareholder to convert the debt to equity. This means that it will be paying the state a dividend rather than interest to the banks.
The airline says it made IINM a R230m profit despite the oil price increase from a budgeted $85 / barrel to $140..
This fuel increase added R900 mn to the costs.
A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three thousand times the memory.
Last edited by Gyro Nut; 16th Jul 2008 at 22:03.
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I hold no brief for SAA management but when the guy posting the thread title does not know the difference between "loose" and lose...you have to wonder.
(and don't tell me it was a typo).
Back to the topic....
The fact is there is about as much airline management capacity & capability in SAA as there is in Britney Spear's PR department. I would take whatever is presented with a rather large pinch of salt. R1.3bn restructuring costs - rip off of the Coleman order.
Surely if one was a manager at SAA and you did not see that coming your employees and shareholder would be entitled to ask just exactly what it is that you have been managing for the past year or so and then presumably they would be entitled to receive your resignation post haste with a pay back of all monies received for a job not done.
Don't hold your breath more pain to come....
(and don't tell me it was a typo).
Back to the topic....
The fact is there is about as much airline management capacity & capability in SAA as there is in Britney Spear's PR department. I would take whatever is presented with a rather large pinch of salt. R1.3bn restructuring costs - rip off of the Coleman order.
Surely if one was a manager at SAA and you did not see that coming your employees and shareholder would be entitled to ask just exactly what it is that you have been managing for the past year or so and then presumably they would be entitled to receive your resignation post haste with a pay back of all monies received for a job not done.
Don't hold your breath more pain to come....
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My apologies for the horrendous spending.
I heard a rumour once that the CEO of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, once got the pilots to crank up the speed, the airline board on discovering this invoiced him for the extra fuel
Australia is the answer.
I heard a rumour once that the CEO of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, once got the pilots to crank up the speed, the airline board on discovering this invoiced him for the extra fuel
Australia is the answer.
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I was there.
SAA wants to convert its borrowings to equity. ie instead of owing the banks R5 Bn it wants its shareholder to convert the debt to equity. This means that it will be paying the state a dividend rather than interest to the banks.
The airline says it made IINM a R230m profit despite the oil price increase from a budgeted $85 / barrel to $140..
This fuel increase added R900 mn to the costs.
A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three thousand times the memory.
SAA wants to convert its borrowings to equity. ie instead of owing the banks R5 Bn it wants its shareholder to convert the debt to equity. This means that it will be paying the state a dividend rather than interest to the banks.
The airline says it made IINM a R230m profit despite the oil price increase from a budgeted $85 / barrel to $140..
This fuel increase added R900 mn to the costs.
A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three thousand times the memory.
Their costs outweighed their income and hence they lost money. I nor any person in their right mind would buy shares in SAA if their was such an option.
Wasn't Khaya on record at some point saying they budgeted for oil at about $70?
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Gyro Nut
Hiding it behind artfully constructed financial shenanigans doesn't make it any less of a burden on the taxpayer. The dividend you speak of is a voluntary contribution when and if the company in question feels like it. Somehow I can't see anywhere near the original "equity" amount ever getting back to the original "lenders", if anything is paid back at all apart from a token contribution whenever awkward questions are asked.
The nice thing about being a cynic is we're right so much of the time....
Hiding it behind artfully constructed financial shenanigans doesn't make it any less of a burden on the taxpayer. The dividend you speak of is a voluntary contribution when and if the company in question feels like it. Somehow I can't see anywhere near the original "equity" amount ever getting back to the original "lenders", if anything is paid back at all apart from a token contribution whenever awkward questions are asked.
The nice thing about being a cynic is we're right so much of the time....
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SAA wants to convert its borrowings to equity. ie instead of owing the banks R5 Bn it wants its shareholder to convert the debt to equity. This means that it will be paying the state a dividend rather than interest to the banks.
....SAA had apparently asked for R3bn from the National Treasury this financial year to offset losses sustained in the last financial year.
I seem to remember SAA getting a similar number last yr?
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Flight to PE very recently, Spoories A319 lines up 03L, then taxis back to bay. Reason? "We forgot some passengers". Waits in the bay for 45 min for a small group of pax (4) to board, has to take on more fuel, finally takes off over an hour later. Real slick operation.
What happened to headcount / pax manifest / customer service? Eish.
What happened to headcount / pax manifest / customer service? Eish.
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"The Idiot"
If the goverment wants to appoint an idiot to run the airline they must be prepared to pay when he can't deliver. Easy.
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SAA's web address should be......DON'TFLYSAA.COM..........it's as simple as that......the funny thing is about them....they always request shorter routes, they always moan when they get put into a hold, they always quarey the ATC when they been told to standby push and start and the best is with all there training they have, they always seem to request 03L when its states clearly on the approach plate about requesting the parrallel runway....and then they run at a loss.....O I don't know.....the ONLY good thing about SAA is the ratings are free.....
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Sorry friends to spoil your fun and games - but the content of the original posts are somewhat misleading - this is according to someone that attended the original press conference that was mis quoted in the media.
Facts:
1. SAA was loosing money due to the conditions of the previous bail-out as it was structured as a loan and they have to repay it as well as interest. Nothing wrong in the principle but the main shareholder (the government) is in effect getting preferential treatment in repayment of a loan as well as profit on the loan in the form of interest before the rest of the shareholders get there dues.
2. The circus is also that in effect they are calling for the previous loan to be changed to an investment by shareholders whereby they will not be required to repay interest but only dividends as in any other shareholder.
The idea is for the government to become a shareholde like any other instead of being a preferential shareholder?
So yes they indeed had a loss but not on the operating side - it was on the nett due to the previous loan. In other words the money is already paid but the accounting of the said money is what is at stake.
I guess if you have guys/girls who can't even listen at a press conference (or won't listen or even decide beforehand what they want to write) you can't expect accurate reporting in the media - especially if they want to sell with shocking head-lines. And with the average knowledge of accounting that a lot of people exhibit it is really to be expected that they would be driven by sensationalism rather that accuracy.
VG300
Facts:
1. SAA was loosing money due to the conditions of the previous bail-out as it was structured as a loan and they have to repay it as well as interest. Nothing wrong in the principle but the main shareholder (the government) is in effect getting preferential treatment in repayment of a loan as well as profit on the loan in the form of interest before the rest of the shareholders get there dues.
2. The circus is also that in effect they are calling for the previous loan to be changed to an investment by shareholders whereby they will not be required to repay interest but only dividends as in any other shareholder.
The idea is for the government to become a shareholde like any other instead of being a preferential shareholder?
So yes they indeed had a loss but not on the operating side - it was on the nett due to the previous loan. In other words the money is already paid but the accounting of the said money is what is at stake.
I guess if you have guys/girls who can't even listen at a press conference (or won't listen or even decide beforehand what they want to write) you can't expect accurate reporting in the media - especially if they want to sell with shocking head-lines. And with the average knowledge of accounting that a lot of people exhibit it is really to be expected that they would be driven by sensationalism rather that accuracy.
VG300
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So yes they indeed had a loss but not on the operating side - it was on the nett due to the previous loan.
Here's an idea. Let the taxpayer sell its shares to private investors and then it has to run like every other BUSINESS in the world.
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This is absolute bull, every single year the tax pay inevitably feels the pinch. You guys at SAA can cite poor media coverage, the media in SA runs at a profit thou, lack of accounting knowledge on the part of Joe Public, but inevitably you run a poor operation plagued by inefficiency and stupidity. The tax payer loans SAA the money, they can't repay it yadda yadda so can't it to be written off or converted to equity etc. same crap different year.
Surely with the amount of money the tax payer has wasted in SAA it would have been cheaper a few years ago for the government to wipe their debt out and sell it, instead of us every 12 months pumping in a few more billion?
You guys get your head out of the sand, Khaya has a history of ruining every business he has touched. Prior to SAA there was the IDC, then AME and now SAA.
Surely with the amount of money the tax payer has wasted in SAA it would have been cheaper a few years ago for the government to wipe their debt out and sell it, instead of us every 12 months pumping in a few more billion?
You guys get your head out of the sand, Khaya has a history of ruining every business he has touched. Prior to SAA there was the IDC, then AME and now SAA.
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I guess if you have guys/girls who can't even listen at a press conference (or won't listen or even decide beforehand what they want to write) you can't expect accurate reporting in the media - especially if they want to sell with shocking head-lines. And with the average knowledge of accounting that a lot of people exhibit it is really to be expected that they would be driven by sensationalism rather that accuracy.