Another 210 crash Namibia
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: all over
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that the training need some serious itention. I used to fly in swakop and recently started with another company and reaslized what a big lack in training in swk is......and the company have to do something about it(if they don't close down)....
And about the drinking and flying: it got nothing to do with one of the last 3 C210 accidents.....and for the record the drinking before flying is dying away bigtime...
And about the drinking and flying: it got nothing to do with one of the last 3 C210 accidents.....and for the record the drinking before flying is dying away bigtime...
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MRats
Age: 54
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does not want to stop. Another C210 had engine failure on take off Friday at Eros and another one did a forcelanding Saturday 80 miles south west of Windhoek. Lucky all pax and crew safe (without scratch)
. More news in www.republikein.com.na or www.namibian.com.na tomorrow.
. More news in www.republikein.com.na or www.namibian.com.na tomorrow.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: all over
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"and for the record the drinking before flying is dying away bigtime..." sorry that does sound a bit chilling.....
Another C210 down????what the hell is going on there?? got more information???
stadig ouens....
Another C210 down????what the hell is going on there?? got more information???
stadig ouens....
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somewhere below the Stratosphere
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I worked in Nam I had a few friends that did work in Swakopmund and not one but many told me that they cant remember doing a scenic that morning even though they did because they were too "hungover" or too out of it too remember the flight....thats chilling...and it wasnt only then..it is still there till today.
Something drastic must be done NOW, others will follow the 'religion' that Swakopmund has set. ....Maybe a compulsory blood test and breathalizer everymorning...????
Something drastic must be done NOW, others will follow the 'religion' that Swakopmund has set. ....Maybe a compulsory blood test and breathalizer everymorning...????
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pofadder
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi I208
yeah I heard stories and yes they are true...BUT how many accidents were their those years??????????
like I said these A/C accidents got nothing to do with drink and flying!!!!!!!!!!!!and I been flying years in namib and trust me Windhoek pilots are no different and so are many other places!!!
All I want to find out is what happend to the Sefo C210 that went down this weekend???
yeah I heard stories and yes they are true...BUT how many accidents were their those years??????????
like I said these A/C accidents got nothing to do with drink and flying!!!!!!!!!!!!and I been flying years in namib and trust me Windhoek pilots are no different and so are many other places!!!
All I want to find out is what happend to the Sefo C210 that went down this weekend???
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Heidelberg W Cape R.S.A
Age: 74
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SkySurfin ,you obviously know Stewart at Mackair ....saftey first...pilot training essential !!! 50 Ft base ...unheard of at such a big airport. Still remember in the years of the bush war that I was given the instruction by ATC as I left Grootfontein to keep it low ...very low ...then 50 Ft was OK. Those days you had to come in and depart very low just in case someone with a SAM7 missile spotted you !!
Those days you had to come in and depart very low just in case someone with a SAM7 missile spotted you !!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somewhere below the Stratosphere
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Babygoose..Im not saying that Windhoek pilots are better than Swakopmund pilots. I had many friends down on the coast flying there and loved every minute of the coastline and the company of the pilots and there was never a rivalry between any of them..And yes you are correct there wasnt many accidents when I was there from 2004-2006, a few yes but nothing as many as now..
Im just saying that Swakopmund does have a reputation of drinking and flying and this accident could have been caused by the after effects of drinking..better known as "hangover"...To forget to change tanks on a C210 for 1.6hours is pretty long wouldnt you say? And that the pilot didnt feel that the aircraft is "leaning" more to one side than the other wing..mind boggling. After a few scenic flights it becomes moto memory to change tanks at a specific point along the route without checking your watch or the guages.
An accident has many sides to a story..we wouldnt know exactly what happened except the pilot himself. Nam DCA should start regulating the training of the pilots more and insist on proficiency checks from the operators more often to prevent accidents like this one.
As for the accident on the Sefo aeroplane..I also would like to know..Have a few friends flying there.
Im just saying that Swakopmund does have a reputation of drinking and flying and this accident could have been caused by the after effects of drinking..better known as "hangover"...To forget to change tanks on a C210 for 1.6hours is pretty long wouldnt you say? And that the pilot didnt feel that the aircraft is "leaning" more to one side than the other wing..mind boggling. After a few scenic flights it becomes moto memory to change tanks at a specific point along the route without checking your watch or the guages.
An accident has many sides to a story..we wouldnt know exactly what happened except the pilot himself. Nam DCA should start regulating the training of the pilots more and insist on proficiency checks from the operators more often to prevent accidents like this one.
As for the accident on the Sefo aeroplane..I also would like to know..Have a few friends flying there.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somewhere below the Stratosphere
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sefofanes training policy is as follows:
Sefo has an agreement with their insurance underwriters that any pilot that flies "online" will have a minimum hours of 300 Total. So if a pilot arrives from SA with 200hours they might get hired. If that person gets hired then that pilot will fly under supervision with another Sefo pilot that has more than 1000hours Total time himself and train that pilot for the remainder until he has 300TT. Further to that the pilot must have 50hours on TYPE before he can go online. Sefo WILL NOT waive this because of the insurance. Sefo has something like 16 aeroplanes just in Namibia already and with this training policy they get reduced insurance rates and brings down their policy drastically. With out that then the insurance would be rather high and business would not be so great.
As for the Route training, Sefo puts you on as many empty leg sectors first before you may take passengers. Only after the BOSS thinks you may take passengers then you are allowed to take passengers. This route training can take up to 3months sometimes, depends on how many hours you arrive with. But ultimately 300hours is the GOLDEN mark.
As for the Caravan policy, pilot must have more that 1000hours TT before he is eligible for the postion. 1000 TT doesnt guarentee you the job automatically but if a situation arise for an opening...the viola..you got the position..and still you will fly a C210 and not just the VAN.
And finally for the Sefo aeroplane that went down the other day....A C210 had engine problems enroute from Geluk to WDK Int. Pilot made a safe forced landing on a dirt road somewhere halfway. Everybody OK on aeroplane including plane itself...So again...training plays a BIG role on safety...Well done to the pilot...More like this should be done in Namibia.
Sefo has an agreement with their insurance underwriters that any pilot that flies "online" will have a minimum hours of 300 Total. So if a pilot arrives from SA with 200hours they might get hired. If that person gets hired then that pilot will fly under supervision with another Sefo pilot that has more than 1000hours Total time himself and train that pilot for the remainder until he has 300TT. Further to that the pilot must have 50hours on TYPE before he can go online. Sefo WILL NOT waive this because of the insurance. Sefo has something like 16 aeroplanes just in Namibia already and with this training policy they get reduced insurance rates and brings down their policy drastically. With out that then the insurance would be rather high and business would not be so great.
As for the Route training, Sefo puts you on as many empty leg sectors first before you may take passengers. Only after the BOSS thinks you may take passengers then you are allowed to take passengers. This route training can take up to 3months sometimes, depends on how many hours you arrive with. But ultimately 300hours is the GOLDEN mark.
As for the Caravan policy, pilot must have more that 1000hours TT before he is eligible for the postion. 1000 TT doesnt guarentee you the job automatically but if a situation arise for an opening...the viola..you got the position..and still you will fly a C210 and not just the VAN.
And finally for the Sefo aeroplane that went down the other day....A C210 had engine problems enroute from Geluk to WDK Int. Pilot made a safe forced landing on a dirt road somewhere halfway. Everybody OK on aeroplane including plane itself...So again...training plays a BIG role on safety...Well done to the pilot...More like this should be done in Namibia.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MRats
Age: 54
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviation industry (Avianam) has now introduced a similar policy for all its members, but with a slight difference. Pilots fly only 25 hours under supervision iso of the 50 hours of Sefo. But what of maintenance? The previous forcelanding and air return was due to mechanical error?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pofadder
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Icarus208 I TOTTALY agree with you on there is no exuse for forgetting about fuel..and I personnaly knows at pleasure flights flightlogs make sure of reminding the pilots to calculate fuel...
And for the sefo pilot...he can be damn lucky the donkey's didn't stop on him(or her???) over those mountains...but well done for a very good landing...
happy landing boys...namibia still stays the best place to fly....
And for the sefo pilot...he can be damn lucky the donkey's didn't stop on him(or her???) over those mountains...but well done for a very good landing...
happy landing boys...namibia still stays the best place to fly....
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: western europe
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
V5-RGW, what a shame-I used to fly that beast many years back, shame to hear its been beached,
oh and Icarus208-careful to not point fingers and make up bad stories about drinking and flying when you prob dont know facts about this incident.
oh and Icarus208-careful to not point fingers and make up bad stories about drinking and flying when you prob dont know facts about this incident.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somewhere below the Stratosphere
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airforce
If you read my posts VERY CAREFULLY and maybe a LITTLE slower would you see that at NO point did I point fingers to the pilot that crashed V5-RGW. I merely referred to the Swakopmund pilots that would drink the night before and go fly the following day..way over the legal limit.
FACT: I have known a few pilots who actually flown like Ive described and said in previous posts.
And if you have flown RGW then you were also a Swakopmund pilot and you would know exactly what Im talking about...and please prove me wrong.
If you read my posts VERY CAREFULLY and maybe a LITTLE slower would you see that at NO point did I point fingers to the pilot that crashed V5-RGW. I merely referred to the Swakopmund pilots that would drink the night before and go fly the following day..way over the legal limit.
FACT: I have known a few pilots who actually flown like Ive described and said in previous posts.
And if you have flown RGW then you were also a Swakopmund pilot and you would know exactly what Im talking about...and please prove me wrong.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Perth
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also believe that training for the scenic pilots is not enough. At the end of the day, the 210 isn't the easiest plane to fly, production was discontined for a reason!
Some companies require 50hrs of training on the 210 before pilots go 'online', and you don't hear of them having any problems!!
Some companies require 50hrs of training on the 210 before pilots go 'online', and you don't hear of them having any problems!!
BUT I do take exception to the statement thaat the 210 is not the easiest plane to fly.
They really don't come much easier.
With oodles of power even with six peeps on board , its stalling speed is low enough to not get into trouble that way.
Yes, fuel management demands attention, but then try a Cherokee 6 where you've got to juggle four tanks. Also gravity feed helps to light it up again as soon as you put things right if it does cough a couple of times.
The reason they stopped production was the problem with the outer wing structure and the litigation Cessna suffered as a result.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought it was discontinued due to two reasons: pilots forgetting to lower the landing gear and secondly pilots getting on the wrong side of the drag curve and stalling or putting it into a spin. A 210 is not as forgiving as other aircraft-that's definatly for sure. Other aircraft with laminar flow wings are similar e.g. Mooney
But if changing fuel tanks is the issue, then the C210 is not more complex than other aircraft in its class.
But if changing fuel tanks is the issue, then the C210 is not more complex than other aircraft in its class.
