C206 PIC or C208B co-pilot ?
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Quite so. However, it's not about piston or turbine time. It's about command time and later on, multi time. The turbine time is merely a sideshow as it's not something deemed of sufficient gravity or relevance to be reflected in one's logbook.
At the end of the day, the original poster should do whatever brings him naches.
(Nilgai - Deer, oh deer....
)
At the end of the day, the original poster should do whatever brings him naches.
(Nilgai - Deer, oh deer....
)
Está servira para distraerle.
CAP 407.
Civil Aviation Authority (UK)
Personal flying log book
(aircraft operating crew)
Holder's operating capacity.
P/UT.....Pilot / Underslung Turbine?
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SRT
Well said. Command time should be priority... turbine, piston, single or twin, it does'nt matter what, or how many donkeys are pulling the cart... your decision making skills and command experience/potential will benefit the most. Especially for future employment.
Well said. Command time should be priority... turbine, piston, single or twin, it does'nt matter what, or how many donkeys are pulling the cart... your decision making skills and command experience/potential will benefit the most. Especially for future employment.
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Thanks to all for their opinions,verry interesting.
I find the discussion was initially focusiing on the ac type and now on the importance of command time! Great.
Then to me it would seem that going on the 206 for a while with the possibility to move up to the van a bit later mite just be the beter option. Im not old, but at the age where i dont want to be wasting time if i can avoid it.
Im sure doing some time on the 206 would then also make my transition to the van a bit easier, aswell as reducing my time i would sit as P2 on the van before getting command of it?
Maybe getting onto the van a little later on,by going the 206 route first,but having a good couple hundred hours as PIC under my belt may be beter than going P2 van from start,leaving me with verry few PIC hours.
Thanks again...
I find the discussion was initially focusiing on the ac type and now on the importance of command time! Great.
Then to me it would seem that going on the 206 for a while with the possibility to move up to the van a bit later mite just be the beter option. Im not old, but at the age where i dont want to be wasting time if i can avoid it.
Im sure doing some time on the 206 would then also make my transition to the van a bit easier, aswell as reducing my time i would sit as P2 on the van before getting command of it?
Maybe getting onto the van a little later on,by going the 206 route first,but having a good couple hundred hours as PIC under my belt may be beter than going P2 van from start,leaving me with verry few PIC hours.
Thanks again...
Last edited by flyinggoose; 20th Apr 2008 at 06:30. Reason: didnt read all the posts
Está servira para distraerle.
The C208 is a single engine, single crew, light weight puddle jumper.
For the purposes of your log book I really cannot see why you should not simpy log all the time you spend in the aircraft as P1. I am sure that you can log the time you actually handle the machine as P1. Perhaps you could give SA/CAA a telephone call or drop round there and have a word with a Flight Ops Inspector and see if such a scheme would be realistic even if it might not appeal entirely to the hour counting purists.
In any event, the best of luck with your plots and plans. The patter part of the instructors rating is easy enough and FTS at FAGC have an excellent book on patter technique which they sell for some no too outrageous price.
Was there not a sudden change of posts just above?
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 20th Apr 2008 at 06:28.
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Yip
Sorry Cavortingcheetah, i hadnt read all the posts before submitting,bit new at this game.
Agree with your idea of the instructing,especialy part time,buiding some PIC,however dont think it would be possible in the near future with the extra cost implication,but may be a work in progress.
Thanks for your ideas.Hope i didnt mes you around with the posts. Cheers
Sorry Cavortingcheetah, i hadnt read all the posts before submitting,bit new at this game.
Agree with your idea of the instructing,especialy part time,buiding some PIC,however dont think it would be possible in the near future with the extra cost implication,but may be a work in progress.
Thanks for your ideas.Hope i didnt mes you around with the posts. Cheers
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Must Be PIC
Came to this thread a bit late.
Recently transitioning from one widebody to another, with over 10 000hrs in the logbook, had to fill in the paperwork and TOTAL PIC time was one of the requirements, but there was no column or block for turbine time.
That should tell you something.
Safe flying.
Recently transitioning from one widebody to another, with over 10 000hrs in the logbook, had to fill in the paperwork and TOTAL PIC time was one of the requirements, but there was no column or block for turbine time.
That should tell you something.
Safe flying.
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SIR OSIS! its been a while! I thought that river of yours may have finally dried up
As for the 206 and 208, I have 1000 hrs on each and If I were to do it all over again, I would not change a thing. I flew the 206 up to 1300 hrs total time (about 1000 on type) and then did the Van rating, because of my total command time I did 2 months on the Van and then got command on it. So as a result I have managed to keep a very high command time versus P2 time which as a result means that getting command on the next machine never takes.
The 206, though piston, was the most fun I have ever had flying and tought me a lot about myself and aviation. You dont have room to cock up because there is only you and the machine and no one to baby sit you. Granted, you wont fly IF and night, but that will come in time.
Then look at some of my 300hr Van co pilots, they had to do 1200 hrs in the right seat (time that your log book makes no provision to log toward total time) before they could get command. By the time they got command, they were so bored of the Van that they went and got 200 or 1900 ratings and then got P2 positions on them. The problem with that is that on contract, you will never get command until you have at least 3000 hrs, so by flying vans now, you are setting yourself up for 3000 hrs of p2 time.
Dog
As for the 206 and 208, I have 1000 hrs on each and If I were to do it all over again, I would not change a thing. I flew the 206 up to 1300 hrs total time (about 1000 on type) and then did the Van rating, because of my total command time I did 2 months on the Van and then got command on it. So as a result I have managed to keep a very high command time versus P2 time which as a result means that getting command on the next machine never takes.
The 206, though piston, was the most fun I have ever had flying and tought me a lot about myself and aviation. You dont have room to cock up because there is only you and the machine and no one to baby sit you. Granted, you wont fly IF and night, but that will come in time.
Then look at some of my 300hr Van co pilots, they had to do 1200 hrs in the right seat (time that your log book makes no provision to log toward total time) before they could get command. By the time they got command, they were so bored of the Van that they went and got 200 or 1900 ratings and then got P2 positions on them. The problem with that is that on contract, you will never get command until you have at least 3000 hrs, so by flying vans now, you are setting yourself up for 3000 hrs of p2 time.
Dog
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Go for the 206. All the reasons stated above in favour of the 206 are extremely valid. The main point being that the earlier you develop your own judgment ability through your own experiences and mistakes the better. You won't achieve this as effectively by sitting next to someone else, regardless of what anyone says. Although the van may be a slightly larger aircraft and be turbine powered, the benefits of the 206 experience are still abundant, as subtle as they may be.
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Not many crew I know that has 3000hrs sitting on a Van these days and not everyone at for example Federal Air has to have 3000hrs to fly P1 on the van, who is flying their 1900`s then, 6000hr pilots? Just too many jobs around, many crew flying P1 on 200s with like 1500 to 2000hrs..! With 1500hrs and ATP writtens you can just about get into Nationwide. Know some guy`s flying co-jo on Lear 35 and Citation with just over 1200hrs. Maybe you didn`t have a block in the logbook that says TURBINE time but most companies will ask you how much turbine time you have..500 hrs turbine counts lot more that 1000hr piston, if you flew around the pattern instructing or flew around Maun..ok you might have bush experience but some companies don`t like that kind of experience..so its a a question what you keen to do or what is best for your career path you
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Sort of on topic...
THIS IS DEDICATED TO ALL WHO FLEW IN RADIAL ENGINE POWERED AIRCRAFT
We gotta get rid of those turbines; they're ruining aviation and our hearing ... A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.
Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My computer is harder to start.
Cranking a radial engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it.. .
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder.
Radial engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho fart or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing ...
When you start a radial engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan. It is useful, but hardly exciting.
When you have started his radial engine successfully, your crew chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl too!
Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A radial engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Radial engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
We gotta get rid of those turbines; they're ruining aviation and our hearing ... A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.
Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My computer is harder to start.
Cranking a radial engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it.. .
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder.
Radial engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho fart or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing ...
When you start a radial engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan. It is useful, but hardly exciting.
When you have started his radial engine successfully, your crew chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl too!
Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A radial engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Radial engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
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SRTwotter
Can see that came staight from the heart..but not many true radial engines still around..so if you have it, lucky you..but look after that horny old mistress..many around who would like to get their grubby little hands on her..hehe..
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My 2c - I did 206 work in Bots - got 1000hrs PIC there now Im flying P1 on the Van.. I wouldnt give that PIC time up for anything!
Plus flying a 206 around the Okavango was one of the best years of my life!
Plus flying a 206 around the Okavango was one of the best years of my life!
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Go fly the 206 - reasons plenty above. The only thing operators are interested in are their insurance premiums and that is why they want pilots with thousands of hours PIC operating everything that is worth more than a million U$. The Van is just as easy to operate as the 206 - a 210 is apparantly more difficult. Flying is not rocket science, but we all have to prove ourselves and the best way to do that is to fly PIC as much as possible.
Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but flying the Van as P2 is a waste of time. Also tend to agree with SRT - PIC time and then a bit of MEP to transition to MET.
Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but flying the Van as P2 is a waste of time. Also tend to agree with SRT - PIC time and then a bit of MEP to transition to MET.