why SAA stoped CDG route ?
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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why SAA stoped CDG route ?
After many years operating the CDG route SAA stoped to fly there last Oct07.
SAA planes stayed all day in CDG parking : 12hours parking heavy fees.
Is the question a question of fuel to stop this route ? i dont think so as AF has 2 daily flights, quite full.
wasn't another solution ? 2 hours only in CDG, smaller plane ?
Pax go now via MUC or FRA but who wants to fly there first ?
Not me !
I want SAA to come back here !
SAA planes stayed all day in CDG parking : 12hours parking heavy fees.
Is the question a question of fuel to stop this route ? i dont think so as AF has 2 daily flights, quite full.
wasn't another solution ? 2 hours only in CDG, smaller plane ?
Pax go now via MUC or FRA but who wants to fly there first ?
Not me !
I want SAA to come back here !
Join Date: Aug 2007
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There is not enough O&D traffic on the CDG-JNB route to support three daily frequencies and without connectivity at CDG SA was a little thin. CDG is a huge hub for AF and they have a big feed, particularly from North America! Furthermore, since AF interline with SA on domestic and regional routes the business is not lost to them totally. By moving from CDG to MUC SA have a bigger Start Alliance feed and exclusivity in the O&D market.
Also rumor has it that AF wanted its second daily to go to CPT instead of JNB and that SA proposed to withdraw from CDG if AF went to JNB instead. This means that AF connecting traffic would have to make two stops to get to CPT instead of one (assuming they didn't start in CDG) and SA could still connect through LHR and FRA to CPT with only one connection.
Also rumor has it that AF wanted its second daily to go to CPT instead of JNB and that SA proposed to withdraw from CDG if AF went to JNB instead. This means that AF connecting traffic would have to make two stops to get to CPT instead of one (assuming they didn't start in CDG) and SA could still connect through LHR and FRA to CPT with only one connection.
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That's interesting... As someone who used to fly ORD-CDG-JNB regularly, I hated the 14 hour layover at CDG. When did AF start 994 on a day flight? Is that only since 2007? Any idea?
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SAA and Cdg...well there are a no of rumours,
1. No Star alliance connections out of Charles De Gaulle - yes no flying connections as Air France is the only domestic operator...however the French have trains that work! from the apt nogal.
2. Gas Guzzling A340-200
Most probably the most efficient people mover in terms of fuel burn - oversized motorised glider.
3. A/C standing all day...A fact of life check out FAJS or any Int airport during the daylight hours. Only becomes a problem when you are short of aircraft.
The only people who know are the people that closed it....An unprofitable route it was not - apply common sense.
a. Lots of freight - those froggies like our fresh fish!
b. French passengers who will fly on any airline but Air France...all countries have them.
c. No French domestic connections? Was a study or investigation done to see how many people actually flew on from CDG or Orly on AF?
d. Paris is one of the top 3 tourist destinations in the world.
e.It has probably the best connection into the European rail network.
The only conclusion is that the closure stinks of collusion in some form or manner.
1. No Star alliance connections out of Charles De Gaulle - yes no flying connections as Air France is the only domestic operator...however the French have trains that work! from the apt nogal.
2. Gas Guzzling A340-200
Most probably the most efficient people mover in terms of fuel burn - oversized motorised glider.3. A/C standing all day...A fact of life check out FAJS or any Int airport during the daylight hours. Only becomes a problem when you are short of aircraft.
The only people who know are the people that closed it....An unprofitable route it was not - apply common sense.
a. Lots of freight - those froggies like our fresh fish!
b. French passengers who will fly on any airline but Air France...all countries have them.
c. No French domestic connections? Was a study or investigation done to see how many people actually flew on from CDG or Orly on AF?
d. Paris is one of the top 3 tourist destinations in the world.
e.It has probably the best connection into the European rail network.
The only conclusion is that the closure stinks of collusion in some form or manner.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Lets just say this:
1) Good freight loads is not a reason for a passenger flight, it is a good reason for a cargo flight. SAA still ships cargo to CDG via FRA with LH. Fish is not often shipped by air but rather frozen in reefer containers.
2) The A340-200 makes money on other routes and could on CDG if it were a profitable route.
3) Data on connections and loads from CDG and connecting traffic through CDG is readily available. Most airlines subscribe to various data services mostly offered at a high cost by GDS operators. SAA knew exactly who was getting to JNB on what from where!
4) Paris is one of the top 3 destinations in the world but not for Southern Africans!
5) The biggest carrier out of France to South Africa is BA (through LHR)! The large majority of passengers on AF to JNB are connections from North America (particularly Canada and the North East and LAX) and Scandinavia.
SAA has made a bucket of money on the MUC route relative to the loss on CDG so I think it was a genuininly good business move and that is something rare in the context of SAA.
By the way, a study was done, I worked on it, the firm who did it is called Seabury!
1) Good freight loads is not a reason for a passenger flight, it is a good reason for a cargo flight. SAA still ships cargo to CDG via FRA with LH. Fish is not often shipped by air but rather frozen in reefer containers.
2) The A340-200 makes money on other routes and could on CDG if it were a profitable route.
3) Data on connections and loads from CDG and connecting traffic through CDG is readily available. Most airlines subscribe to various data services mostly offered at a high cost by GDS operators. SAA knew exactly who was getting to JNB on what from where!
4) Paris is one of the top 3 destinations in the world but not for Southern Africans!
5) The biggest carrier out of France to South Africa is BA (through LHR)! The large majority of passengers on AF to JNB are connections from North America (particularly Canada and the North East and LAX) and Scandinavia.
SAA has made a bucket of money on the MUC route relative to the loss on CDG so I think it was a genuininly good business move and that is something rare in the context of SAA.
By the way, a study was done, I worked on it, the firm who did it is called Seabury!
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Well well... explanations are very clear and helpfull, tks 
What do you think of a comparison between SA & KQ to CDG ?
I think reasons given for SA could be aplied to KQ but KQ keeps CDG with a 767 3 flights weekly.
What do you think of a comparison between SA & KQ to CDG ?
I think reasons given for SA could be aplied to KQ but KQ keeps CDG with a 767 3 flights weekly.
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KQ are effectively a Sky Team member and have connections with AF at CDG. The Air France KLM Group is a significant shareholder in KQ and I believe that AF codeshare with KQ on the route!
KQ also use CDG to connect North American traffic!
KQ also use CDG to connect North American traffic!
