SAPS Targeting "GA" ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAPS Targeting "GA" ?
These are not my own words, but an article posted to me...and thought I would post it for general comment /pilot information.
Does the SAPS not have anything better to do than harass General Aviation pilots? In the last week, I have heard of two separate incidents where the SAP arrived at an airfield and demanded from pilots all the documents that should be carried on their aircraft.
Following are examples of documentsthat should be carried.
Airworthiness certificate, mass and balance, release certificate, radio licence and radio licence receipt, pilot's licence, and if you are stopped just before takeoff or after landing, the actual mass and balance calculations for that specific flight.
At one airfield last week, eight policemen arrived in three separate vehicles from SAPS head office in Pretoria. They only found two pilots at the field and after questioning these pilots, the policemen said that theywould return on Saturday to check all the rest of the aircraft at the field.
In another incident last week, it was reported that a pilot had his licence suspended when the police reported him to the CAA for not complying with the regulations. The pilot did not have all the documents on hand, and the Civil Aviation Authority suspended his licence. The pilot will be forced to re-write the air-law exam before his licence will be reinstated.
What nonsense. The questions that have to be asked are:-
1. Why is the SAPS chasing around the country on this sort of paper trail,when people are being murdered, raped, hijacked, robbed and more?
2. Why is general aviation being targeted? I can understand if the SAPS was to check commercial airlines in the interest of air-safety for tourists and domestic passengers, but what is the motive behind checking generalaviation?
3. Why do we pay the CAA levies, including R3/litre levy in aviation fuel?Surely the checking of documentation is "its" responsibility and if so, why has it delegated this role to the police?
4. What training have these people had to investigate these issues? One policeman asked the pilot of a Piper Cub, 'what kind of aeroplane is this?'Then he asked 'why does this plane have a ZS registration, and that one overthere have a ZU registration?' Would these policemen even know what a weight and balance calculation looks like?
5. The SAPS has often used the excuse that it does not have enough vehicles to get to crime scenes on time or conduct patrols. Even if it does have vehicles, it does not have sufficient petrol to drive around in them. Why then does the SAPS send three vehicles all the way from Pretoria to investigate aircraft at airfields more than 50 km away?
Editor's comments This is indeed a sad state of affairs. It seems that although the SA Police Services does not have the resources to contain violent crime in South Africa, it does have the time to interfere in the highly structured aviation industry. In addition, these police officers do not appear to have any idea of what aviation is all about in South Africa. I would like to believe that by far the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts are law abiding citizens who add considerably to the tax coffers of our country.
Does the SAPS not have anything better to do than harass General Aviation pilots? In the last week, I have heard of two separate incidents where the SAP arrived at an airfield and demanded from pilots all the documents that should be carried on their aircraft.
Following are examples of documentsthat should be carried.
Airworthiness certificate, mass and balance, release certificate, radio licence and radio licence receipt, pilot's licence, and if you are stopped just before takeoff or after landing, the actual mass and balance calculations for that specific flight.
At one airfield last week, eight policemen arrived in three separate vehicles from SAPS head office in Pretoria. They only found two pilots at the field and after questioning these pilots, the policemen said that theywould return on Saturday to check all the rest of the aircraft at the field.
In another incident last week, it was reported that a pilot had his licence suspended when the police reported him to the CAA for not complying with the regulations. The pilot did not have all the documents on hand, and the Civil Aviation Authority suspended his licence. The pilot will be forced to re-write the air-law exam before his licence will be reinstated.
What nonsense. The questions that have to be asked are:-
1. Why is the SAPS chasing around the country on this sort of paper trail,when people are being murdered, raped, hijacked, robbed and more?
2. Why is general aviation being targeted? I can understand if the SAPS was to check commercial airlines in the interest of air-safety for tourists and domestic passengers, but what is the motive behind checking generalaviation?
3. Why do we pay the CAA levies, including R3/litre levy in aviation fuel?Surely the checking of documentation is "its" responsibility and if so, why has it delegated this role to the police?
4. What training have these people had to investigate these issues? One policeman asked the pilot of a Piper Cub, 'what kind of aeroplane is this?'Then he asked 'why does this plane have a ZS registration, and that one overthere have a ZU registration?' Would these policemen even know what a weight and balance calculation looks like?
5. The SAPS has often used the excuse that it does not have enough vehicles to get to crime scenes on time or conduct patrols. Even if it does have vehicles, it does not have sufficient petrol to drive around in them. Why then does the SAPS send three vehicles all the way from Pretoria to investigate aircraft at airfields more than 50 km away?
Editor's comments This is indeed a sad state of affairs. It seems that although the SA Police Services does not have the resources to contain violent crime in South Africa, it does have the time to interfere in the highly structured aviation industry. In addition, these police officers do not appear to have any idea of what aviation is all about in South Africa. I would like to believe that by far the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts are law abiding citizens who add considerably to the tax coffers of our country.
Wow! That all sounds a tad worrying. I know they were very interested in GA down in Cape Town and wanted to know where each flight was going, but this info they could have got from air traffic. This really is a sorry state of affairs......
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: south africa
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is not the first time that the police have started clamping down on GA. A couple of years ago, they were doing the exact same thing. According to a little birdie 
it was due to an increased number in drug/human trafficing across our borders by some nefarious characters heavily involved in SA GA. 
it was due to an increased number in drug/human trafficing across our borders by some nefarious characters heavily involved in SA GA.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Still looking for a place
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAPS
It is a special unit that has been in operation in the SAPS for a while now.
Most of the guys have been on an aviation course given by the law enforcement from CAA.
These guys are doing an excellent job.
CAA does not have the man power to police all the border post airfields hence the SAPS doing this.
You will be amazed at the amount of goods that were smuggled into SA that were stopped by these guys and the amount of illegal flights that have been taking place, which these guys have stopped.
The pilot that had the licence suspended deserved all he got and more...(ask the pilot what he did and most of you will applaud the SAP member for doing his job).
They are a great bunch of guys/gals who are in this unit.
Goffel.
Most of the guys have been on an aviation course given by the law enforcement from CAA.
These guys are doing an excellent job.
CAA does not have the man power to police all the border post airfields hence the SAPS doing this.
You will be amazed at the amount of goods that were smuggled into SA that were stopped by these guys and the amount of illegal flights that have been taking place, which these guys have stopped.
The pilot that had the licence suspended deserved all he got and more...(ask the pilot what he did and most of you will applaud the SAP member for doing his job).
They are a great bunch of guys/gals who are in this unit.
Goffel.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I tend to agree. We must rid the industry of those who will use it inappropriately and sadly GA has - to-date - attracted some rather unsavoury characters as those of us who have been around for a long time know all too well. I see a few beauts in my time!! And we only have to look around some of these posts/threads to see that they exist. CAA can't police the industry on their own. If there is a SAPS unit now - can't do any harm. Protects those of us who do it properly!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Judging the SAPS by their overall record in the last few years, it won't be long before it becomes a paper exercise to extract dash from the law abiding while getting backhanders from the crooked to look the other way. Either way, it's all pretty futile while the real crooks cover their tracks by getting rid of the only independant unit in the country who are any threat to them...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MEL
Age: 55
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are certain documents you must have to be legal.
No matter if its the CAA or the SAPS doing ramp checking, or no-one at all, you must have what you must have.
South Africans are quick to complain about crime in the country, but it all starts with yourself.
Speed limits. Safety belts. Stop signs. Drivers licenses. Roadworthyness.
Airplane legal documents.
No matter if its the CAA or the SAPS doing ramp checking, or no-one at all, you must have what you must have.
South Africans are quick to complain about crime in the country, but it all starts with yourself.
Speed limits. Safety belts. Stop signs. Drivers licenses. Roadworthyness.
Airplane legal documents.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely no problem with the ramp checks, but the point I'm trying to make is this:- How long before it's subverted and becomes a money making excercise/just another tax/bribe extraction/reason to target those perceived to be better off?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: turning inbound
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brilliant! The SA aviayion industry has been self-regulating for way too long. It's great that the CAA is taking steps to tighten the screws. The example -cited in the first post of this thread- of the pilot having licence revoked for not complying to THE LAW, should serve as a warning to the rest of the clowns out there who are doing their own thing.
Judging by Half-Pint's post, another couple of guys need to get their butts kicked:
Judging by Half-Pint's post, another couple of guys need to get their butts kicked:
Originally Posted by Half-Pint
but I got away with one expired certificate....
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Still looking for a place
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done Half-Pint..
...........
Got to give you a medal...you actually beat a ramp inspection by getting away with an expired doc..(whatever it was).
You really are a great example to all the other pilots around and to your company.
Just think, God forbid, that you have an accident and the insurance assessor arrives on the scene and finds you expired document........do you honestly think they are now going to pay out.
Should you survive and someone does get badly hurt, dies, your belongings go out the window in paying for all the damages...and, yes, you get criminally charged with the likelihood of going to jail.
Sounds like junk does it not....lets hope you never have to find out.
But I bet you are one of the first to moan about an unlicenced, overloaded taxi.
One day when you are big and a Full Pint, you can look back on what you wrote and cringe with embarrassment on the twaddle you wrote.
SRT.....honestly, these guys are doing a great job...the concerns that you have......knowing a lot of the guys, you dont have to worry there.
In fact one pilot has already been arrested for trying to bribe the guys.
When we all started out in aviation, we certainly did not know then what we know now, so lets give them a chance and the help they deserve.
If you new what conditions that they are working under, you most certainly will give them a chance.
Just think of your child flying with some pilot that was not fully legal/qualified and they were to encounter horrendous weather enroute and that poloiceman stopped the flight beforehand ........just a thought.
Goffel.
...........Got to give you a medal...you actually beat a ramp inspection by getting away with an expired doc..(whatever it was).
You really are a great example to all the other pilots around and to your company.
Just think, God forbid, that you have an accident and the insurance assessor arrives on the scene and finds you expired document........do you honestly think they are now going to pay out.
Should you survive and someone does get badly hurt, dies, your belongings go out the window in paying for all the damages...and, yes, you get criminally charged with the likelihood of going to jail.
Sounds like junk does it not....lets hope you never have to find out.
But I bet you are one of the first to moan about an unlicenced, overloaded taxi.
One day when you are big and a Full Pint, you can look back on what you wrote and cringe with embarrassment on the twaddle you wrote.
SRT.....honestly, these guys are doing a great job...the concerns that you have......knowing a lot of the guys, you dont have to worry there.
In fact one pilot has already been arrested for trying to bribe the guys.
When we all started out in aviation, we certainly did not know then what we know now, so lets give them a chance and the help they deserve.
If you new what conditions that they are working under, you most certainly will give them a chance.
Just think of your child flying with some pilot that was not fully legal/qualified and they were to encounter horrendous weather enroute and that poloiceman stopped the flight beforehand ........just a thought.
Goffel.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just think of your child flying with some pilot that was not fully legal/qualified and they were to encounter horrendous weather enroute and that poloiceman stopped the flight beforehand ........just a thought.
The safety and legal side of things are a great idea, but I'm afraid corruption from those who wield authority has become a way of life in SA.
Reckon I'll wait and see which way it pans out, but being the cold hearted cynical box I am, I'm not going to hold my breath...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Your nearest Marriott
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats the problem. First of all, trusting the SAPS is problem, created by themselves. Secondly, like was the case in recent times (although I know things are changing), having people trying to enforce something they dont understand, a la certain CAA inspectors of recent times, it creates animosity between the two groups. I say, you want to have the cops policing aviation, they had better know what they are talking about.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The wrong side of town.
Posts: 193
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was recently ramp checked at a mine airstrip in the Northern Cape, the two police officers were very appologetic for the inconvenience and were extremely polite, they only checked pilots licences and aircraft docs.
Cant really say it put me out at all.
Cant really say it put me out at all.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reptile
Hello dude you were quick to judge my spelling but pls check your own before you judge others.And I agree with you the pilots doing their own thing must be punished.
!!!! ps!!! The word: aviayion.
Is spelled aviation.
Last edited by pac 1975; 30th Mar 2008 at 09:54.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reptile's mistake is a common problem caused by small keyboards and fat fingers, unlike yours which is caused by being a mong.
Their = belonging to them
There = that location (If you absolutely HAVE to play the spelling police game...)
Their = belonging to them
There = that location (If you absolutely HAVE to play the spelling police game...)
