SAA in Lusaka incident
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DCA Clarification
nugpot
The following question was sent to DCA Zambia
We would request clarification of the following apron markings at L.I.A.
>
> The Red Line Running along the concrete drain (East- West) on the edge
> of the Main Apron, next to the service road.
> Is this an official designation of the edge of the apron for aircraft operational purposes?
The following answer was received:-
“The Red Lines are Apron Safety lines demarcating the Apron area, marking limits of parking Areas for Ground Equipment, service roads and passenger' paths.
- The lines are narrower and are in different colour from the guidelines used for aircraft.
- This is a standard guide as per ICAO documents.”
So it would appear, as mentioned earlier in this thread, that there is no official (ICAO) line demarcation for the edge of an apron for aircraft operations.
The Red Line is for traffic OFF the apron
Nugpot – does this tie in with your reading of ICAO 14 ??
There is definitely no edge yellow line on the video. As you have pointed out there is only the taxi guide line track which could not be followed by the aircraft in the space available.
Where does that leave the Pilot?? And the Marshal?
The following question was sent to DCA Zambia
We would request clarification of the following apron markings at L.I.A.
>
> The Red Line Running along the concrete drain (East- West) on the edge
> of the Main Apron, next to the service road.
> Is this an official designation of the edge of the apron for aircraft operational purposes?
The following answer was received:-
“The Red Lines are Apron Safety lines demarcating the Apron area, marking limits of parking Areas for Ground Equipment, service roads and passenger' paths.
- The lines are narrower and are in different colour from the guidelines used for aircraft.
- This is a standard guide as per ICAO documents.”
So it would appear, as mentioned earlier in this thread, that there is no official (ICAO) line demarcation for the edge of an apron for aircraft operations.
The Red Line is for traffic OFF the apron
Nugpot – does this tie in with your reading of ICAO 14 ??
There is definitely no edge yellow line on the video. As you have pointed out there is only the taxi guide line track which could not be followed by the aircraft in the space available.
Where does that leave the Pilot?? And the Marshal?
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Flyin Bean said;
Where does that leave the Pilot?? And the Marshal?
Serious trouble for the pilot, as usual. The powers that be will no doubt nail him. They always do after an incident as it is just so much easier than actually investigating and coming up with a proper solution. Got to be seen to be doing something, you know!! As for the marshaller, well nothing will happen to him at all! Dont you just love being a pilot and always being on the wrong side of the scam? But seriously, thats why PPRUNE is a great idea. Used correctly we may just achieve the impossible and get pilots to stand together on these issues. Forlorn hope I know but, what the hell I can hope cant I?
Where does that leave the Pilot?? And the Marshal?
Serious trouble for the pilot, as usual. The powers that be will no doubt nail him. They always do after an incident as it is just so much easier than actually investigating and coming up with a proper solution. Got to be seen to be doing something, you know!! As for the marshaller, well nothing will happen to him at all! Dont you just love being a pilot and always being on the wrong side of the scam? But seriously, thats why PPRUNE is a great idea. Used correctly we may just achieve the impossible and get pilots to stand together on these issues. Forlorn hope I know but, what the hell I can hope cant I?
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As I said before, the COMMANDER is finally responsible for the aircraft. Lines or no lines, with or without a marshaller, he taxied in to a stationary object in plain view.
The lesson here is taxi slowly and LOOK. If in doubt, STOP. Call for a wing walker. If then he had hit the truck, roast the wing walker.
The other sad thing is SAA ripped the APU out of somebody elses B742, not a yr ago, 'taxiing on the line'.
But as both 4HP and I have both said "there, but for the grace of god, go I." It happens SO quickly.
The lesson here is taxi slowly and LOOK. If in doubt, STOP. Call for a wing walker. If then he had hit the truck, roast the wing walker.
The other sad thing is SAA ripped the APU out of somebody elses B742, not a yr ago, 'taxiing on the line'.
But as both 4HP and I have both said "there, but for the grace of god, go I." It happens SO quickly.
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LOL
I bet the pilot was pissed off that day because SAA doesn't want to increase his already out of this world salary and benefits......makes you wonder......another thing thats frequent among SAA pilots is that they slam the poor birds onto the runway!!!!! Pilots should stop being so arrogant and stop bitching about conditions when the cabin crew have it harder than them..though i must add cabin crew of SAA are just plain boring and lifeless....that airline needs to really start treating its employees with respect and get rid of the management and the lazy's
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I've stood on the apron and watched the aircraft taxying on many occasions. Zambian Airways 732's don't run a risk of overshooting the red line if they follow the markings on the apron. The B738,however, should turn quite a bit before the markings if it wants to avoid a wingtip over the red line.
The marshalls there are a joke tho, they just stand there waving their arms.
The marshalls there are a joke tho, they just stand there waving their arms.
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Really I dont understand what you are all going on about. The 738 is not the biggest plane we get into Lusaka and there are certainly aircraft with a longer wingspan. So, despite supposed poor bay design, red lines, etc the matter is very simple. SAA are the only ones to have done this and that is that. A very long thread for what seems to be a simple case of pilot error.
As for muzungus.. well I have seem them do some pretty silly stuff in Zambia of late.. especially ones in ZS registered aircraft.
As for muzungus.. well I have seem them do some pretty silly stuff in Zambia of late.. especially ones in ZS registered aircraft.
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A very long thread for what seems to be a simple case of pilot error.
If you are not interested why post?
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I am interested for two reasons; I am Zambian, and I was at the airport.
Of course the markings might be wrong for a 738 and yes chances are good the marsheller wasnt really giving his full attention to the job at hand. But at the end of the day.. its up to the pilot.
I have seen SAA come in there. Sometimes they race in and park that bird like its a 172. Perhaps they were tired? Long day? Still pilot error.
Of course the markings might be wrong for a 738 and yes chances are good the marsheller wasnt really giving his full attention to the job at hand. But at the end of the day.. its up to the pilot.
I have seen SAA come in there. Sometimes they race in and park that bird like its a 172. Perhaps they were tired? Long day? Still pilot error.
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As for muzungus.. well I have seem them do some pretty silly stuff in Zambia of late.
Lets not go there Mukosha, there is no need for race in this thing, I suspect you are correct and it will come down to pilot error, but dont think you are above making errors no matter how dark you are......errors happen to the best of us, as this incident has shown, and they happen quickly when they happen, dont be a smug twa*.
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Actually mzungu is the white scum that blows off the top of the ocean you see sometimes, basically the name given to the white man who arrived off the sea from afar. That told to me by many of my black friends.
Just wanted to see what his definition was?
Just wanted to see what his definition was?