SAA Pilots leaving ??
Join Date: May 2002
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Aviation in SA typically follows the cycles in developed countries with a two to three year lag.
Whilst The US, Canada, Europe and Asia are just starting to feel the pilot shortage squeeze, it will be a few years coming in SA.
Watch for large incentives for current employees in legacy carriers to stay and inducements to join for those on the outside. Don't be too hasty in leaving SA - things will improve. If you're hell-bent on getting out, wait a little while for the dust to settle (and it will) and then make your move to a settled, comfortable, well-paid life elsewhere. The real questions are:
1. Do you have the resources and fortitude to wait it out (2 years IMHO).
2. What will you ultimately gain by leaving for "greener pastures" like EK and O8? Remember that you'll lose seniority (being at the bottom of the list again really sucks), you'll be a stranger in a strange land, your wife and kids will be displaced (happy wife - happy life, remember) and worst of all, limited boerrie and biltong!
3. Do you really know what you're getting yourself into? Have you been to DXB and felt what 48 degrees in the shade feels like - for six months at a stretch? Have you ever tried to reason with an Indian Crew Controller who really only wants to see that the roster is full? Have you sucked polluted air in HKG for three months at a time, imprisoned by the air conditioning, praying that your kids asthma will improve? Do you know what it's like to spend a day - or a week - not speaking to anyone - because no-one understands you or speaks English? Have you ever paid a dollar (US) for a tomato or 5 bucks for a miserable packet of (tasteless) wieners?
The expat life is not for everyone - only a few have what it takes to "just do it". The notice boards at CX are chock-a-block with japies begging for basing buddies so that they can spend a few months "at home", falling over eachother in the bids for JNB flights. Everyone (all 67 at last count) becomes your best mate - jumpseat requests, meat orders, that small "packet" from Mum when you do get that elusive JNB flight...not all that great, by the way - 12 hours over, 24 hours in what has to be the worst crew hotel I have ever stayed in - and 12 hours back.
Think carefully, and always remember that there's a reason the grass is greener over there.
Whilst The US, Canada, Europe and Asia are just starting to feel the pilot shortage squeeze, it will be a few years coming in SA.
Watch for large incentives for current employees in legacy carriers to stay and inducements to join for those on the outside. Don't be too hasty in leaving SA - things will improve. If you're hell-bent on getting out, wait a little while for the dust to settle (and it will) and then make your move to a settled, comfortable, well-paid life elsewhere. The real questions are:
1. Do you have the resources and fortitude to wait it out (2 years IMHO).
2. What will you ultimately gain by leaving for "greener pastures" like EK and O8? Remember that you'll lose seniority (being at the bottom of the list again really sucks), you'll be a stranger in a strange land, your wife and kids will be displaced (happy wife - happy life, remember) and worst of all, limited boerrie and biltong!
3. Do you really know what you're getting yourself into? Have you been to DXB and felt what 48 degrees in the shade feels like - for six months at a stretch? Have you ever tried to reason with an Indian Crew Controller who really only wants to see that the roster is full? Have you sucked polluted air in HKG for three months at a time, imprisoned by the air conditioning, praying that your kids asthma will improve? Do you know what it's like to spend a day - or a week - not speaking to anyone - because no-one understands you or speaks English? Have you ever paid a dollar (US) for a tomato or 5 bucks for a miserable packet of (tasteless) wieners?
The expat life is not for everyone - only a few have what it takes to "just do it". The notice boards at CX are chock-a-block with japies begging for basing buddies so that they can spend a few months "at home", falling over eachother in the bids for JNB flights. Everyone (all 67 at last count) becomes your best mate - jumpseat requests, meat orders, that small "packet" from Mum when you do get that elusive JNB flight...not all that great, by the way - 12 hours over, 24 hours in what has to be the worst crew hotel I have ever stayed in - and 12 hours back.
Think carefully, and always remember that there's a reason the grass is greener over there.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Yes sure it is warm here in the desert, but we are prepared for it. A/C all over and everywhere. The place where I have been most uncomfortable ever has been in SA. It gets warm and cold, neither of the two have SA been ever prepared for. In winter you burn the gas heater and in summer you cant wait for 2am so it will cool down so you can go to sleep!
In DXB it is always the same because we are well equiped. It is 47 C outside at the moment and I must say I just switched my a/c down a tad.
Traffic is bad, but not even close to the f...up at William Nicol! At least we are getting new roads and public transport which actually will work and on time.
Yes it is expensive and not like home. Rememer home is a great place for holiday and much cheaper now!! Half price! Cheap cheap, eish.
Then comes the winter here in DXB and it feels like spring in SA. Brilliant. Yes I miss the crime.....NOT. Nice to know I will have the choice to fly an A380 0r B748.
Yes I miss the boerrie and billies, maybe I will just hop onto one of the 3 flight to JNB today. Or maybe tomorrow seeing that I have 3 days off.
Live is what you make of it and it is all about choices. I have made maine and loving it. Dont do what I did, but do what you want and tell us what you like about it.
Happy flying guys and gals.
In DXB it is always the same because we are well equiped. It is 47 C outside at the moment and I must say I just switched my a/c down a tad.
Traffic is bad, but not even close to the f...up at William Nicol! At least we are getting new roads and public transport which actually will work and on time.
Yes it is expensive and not like home. Rememer home is a great place for holiday and much cheaper now!! Half price! Cheap cheap, eish.
Then comes the winter here in DXB and it feels like spring in SA. Brilliant. Yes I miss the crime.....NOT. Nice to know I will have the choice to fly an A380 0r B748.
Yes I miss the boerrie and billies, maybe I will just hop onto one of the 3 flight to JNB today. Or maybe tomorrow seeing that I have 3 days off.
Live is what you make of it and it is all about choices. I have made maine and loving it. Dont do what I did, but do what you want and tell us what you like about it.
Happy flying guys and gals.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Slightly off topic here, but how will the current financial instability at SAA influence aircraft maintenance standards? Yes yes, I know pilots don't do maintenance
I must say I never really post on here.We got all the guys her posting from the middle east, far east, south Africa and so on.
How really cares – it seems to me – everybody posting on here has to justify there decisions. Who cares if you went to Ek, Catahy or wherever. . That’s you proplem.
Its just a guess – but most pilots – as far as I know – can think, and make decisions.
It’s the ones who make the wrong decisions , who have to make a point all the time.
How really cares – it seems to me – everybody posting on here has to justify there decisions. Who cares if you went to Ek, Catahy or wherever. . That’s you proplem.
Its just a guess – but most pilots – as far as I know – can think, and make decisions.
It’s the ones who make the wrong decisions , who have to make a point all the time.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Capt Underpants,
I admire your optimism, however I need to remind you that one violent crime against you and your family changes all - irreversably, and your chances of this happening in SA is so much greater than other places mentioned.
The grass is greener because of the manure- at least there IS grass and manure, and not stolen, nationalized or broken.
I admire your optimism, however I need to remind you that one violent crime against you and your family changes all - irreversably, and your chances of this happening in SA is so much greater than other places mentioned.
The grass is greener because of the manure- at least there IS grass and manure, and not stolen, nationalized or broken.
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The expat life is not for everyone - only a few have what it takes to "just do it". The notice boards at CX are chock-a-block with japies begging for basing buddies so that they can spend a few months "at home", falling over eachother in the bids for JNB flights. Everyone (all 67 at last count) becomes your best mate - jumpseat requests, meat orders, that small "packet" from Mum when you do get that elusive JNB flight...
Capt. Underpants, I just want to point out a few FACTS, Firstly the notice board at CX City is NOT chock a block with JNB basing requests. Last year I saw one for the Airbus and one for the 400. The one for the Airbus was up for a while as there were not many takers. One of the unique features of the C.X. system is the fact that there is a temp. basing system. At the moment there is more South Africans on temp. basing’s in Europe and North America, and I did not see anyone on a temp basing in S.A at the moment. I also had a look at the master roster and from today until end Sept. I only saw 2 requests for JNB flights. (I only looked at F/O roster to get an idea as I think most S.A.’s fall in this category) The JNB flight is wide open for swaps with non S.A’s.
Temp Basings a great way to travel and requests is a great way to go and play a cheap round of golf and win some money of your friends.
As far as shopping go I found the fact that most food is imported, the choice in the shops like CitySuper and Taste is better then in S.A. As for price, if you get paid here you can afford it. Once again look at the economist’s forecast regarding cost of living in S.A. for the following year.
We all have different comfort zones, but remember: You regret more the things you did not do then the once you did.
Cannot comment on the EK remarks as all my friends over there are happy.
not all that great, by the way - 12 hours over, 24 hours in what has to be the worst crew hotel I have ever stayed in - and 12 hours back.
Personally I have not stayed in the Indaba Hotel, but what I do know it could not be worse then most places I stayed in Africa on contract. The reason the company stay at the Indaba is due to the fact that the hotel has a 10 foot wall and electric fence around the outdoor area, this make the cabin crew feel save as they are all very concerned about their personal safety as S.A. is the port on the network they feel the least safe. Sad but true
Capt. Underpants, I just want to point out a few FACTS, Firstly the notice board at CX City is NOT chock a block with JNB basing requests. Last year I saw one for the Airbus and one for the 400. The one for the Airbus was up for a while as there were not many takers. One of the unique features of the C.X. system is the fact that there is a temp. basing system. At the moment there is more South Africans on temp. basing’s in Europe and North America, and I did not see anyone on a temp basing in S.A at the moment. I also had a look at the master roster and from today until end Sept. I only saw 2 requests for JNB flights. (I only looked at F/O roster to get an idea as I think most S.A.’s fall in this category) The JNB flight is wide open for swaps with non S.A’s.
Temp Basings a great way to travel and requests is a great way to go and play a cheap round of golf and win some money of your friends.
As far as shopping go I found the fact that most food is imported, the choice in the shops like CitySuper and Taste is better then in S.A. As for price, if you get paid here you can afford it. Once again look at the economist’s forecast regarding cost of living in S.A. for the following year.
We all have different comfort zones, but remember: You regret more the things you did not do then the once you did.
Cannot comment on the EK remarks as all my friends over there are happy.
not all that great, by the way - 12 hours over, 24 hours in what has to be the worst crew hotel I have ever stayed in - and 12 hours back.
Personally I have not stayed in the Indaba Hotel, but what I do know it could not be worse then most places I stayed in Africa on contract. The reason the company stay at the Indaba is due to the fact that the hotel has a 10 foot wall and electric fence around the outdoor area, this make the cabin crew feel save as they are all very concerned about their personal safety as S.A. is the port on the network they feel the least safe. Sad but true
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Captain Underpants, I think you have forgotten to say is that the notice begging guys to do a temp base in JNB was there because you cannot get enough guys to put their family in a crime ridden county for two months. Out of 60+ Japies you only need 4 to make a temp base. If you cannot get that out of 60+ you need to think what the real issues are in SA.
Personally I have not seen people falling over each other for a JNB...6 day Paris yes.
Personally I have not seen people falling over each other for a JNB...6 day Paris yes.
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7 applied for the temp base in JNB, 5 got it for Jul / Aug, some of them had to due personal reasons and one of them didnt even stay in SA! There are one or two guys who would come back given the choice but by and large, most wouldnt.
Join Date: May 2002
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Not to get into a discussion about the Indaba, but the reason it's behind 10ft high barbed/electrified fences "patrolled" by their inadequate "security" is because it's 3 km from possibly the most dangerous slum/temporary settlement/squatter camp in the whole of Gauteng(?) - Diepsloot(?). There is a shebeen (?) outside the main gate, hookers patrol the area and if you want to score some MJ, well, just ask the pump jockeys at the gas station. For you, special price.
What, may I ask, is wrong with the Sandton Sun/Holiday Inn/Intercontinental/Hilton where the crew are safe, unthreatened, able to move without relying on inadequate hotel transport and have a better choice than what is currently on offer? Money, that's what. It would cost our masters a whole $5 more per crew member per night. To hell with crew safety and security. Need I remind you of the crime stats in Johannesburg or whatever it's being called these days?
I do remember being put up at the Sandton Sun, and we were moved for "security" reasons to that other dreadful hotel in Centurion - the one that used to flood when the stream overflowed! It's been a steady, downhill slide since then.
The next time you do a JNB flight, just ask the girls what they're doing while they're there - I do - for the most part, they spend it cowering in their hotel rooms. They're petrified - with good reason - of the consequences of stepping outside the 10ft high electrified security fence.
Anyway, I digress. To each his own, but be aware of what you're letting yourself into.
What, may I ask, is wrong with the Sandton Sun/Holiday Inn/Intercontinental/Hilton where the crew are safe, unthreatened, able to move without relying on inadequate hotel transport and have a better choice than what is currently on offer? Money, that's what. It would cost our masters a whole $5 more per crew member per night. To hell with crew safety and security. Need I remind you of the crime stats in Johannesburg or whatever it's being called these days?
I do remember being put up at the Sandton Sun, and we were moved for "security" reasons to that other dreadful hotel in Centurion - the one that used to flood when the stream overflowed! It's been a steady, downhill slide since then.
The next time you do a JNB flight, just ask the girls what they're doing while they're there - I do - for the most part, they spend it cowering in their hotel rooms. They're petrified - with good reason - of the consequences of stepping outside the 10ft high electrified security fence.
Anyway, I digress. To each his own, but be aware of what you're letting yourself into.
Está servira para distraerle.
That is an absolutely accurate assessment of the Indaba Hotel, which used to be the Fourways Garden hotel and before that the Little Roseneath. Furthermore, as the Zimbabweans move southwards from their promised land to the city of gold, the first big urban encampment they will find will be just next door.
The bottle store, next door to the hotel, which used to have its own liquor shop, has closed. Not for lack of business but for other, somewhat more obvious reasons.
It's still an excellent location at rush hour if you want to buy firearms from any one of the myriad taxi drivers whose mini buses are parked alongside the road.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 29th Aug 2007 at 06:35.
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7 out of 67 applying for the base is hardly what I call a stampede, and by the way all our girls do is sit in their room, fold the money and watch CNN. No matter where they are.
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Lets face it once you leave SA you realize that it is a great place to go on Holiday but that there is life after SA. Great place to go on a 24 hour trip...more fun than in LHR or the USA, but to live there full time putting up with all of the social problems and the crime once you have gotten used to living in a semi normal place like HKG it is difficult.
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When will you idiots realize that there is not a right or wrong answer here. If you go - great. If you stay, - great. But for God's sake, stop bleating about what other people did or didn't do. I personally don't give a rats arse about anyone's personal decisions they make in life, but I do take offence when they infer that I have done wrong. My life - I'll live it.
Last edited by saywhat; 29th Aug 2007 at 08:47.
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7 out of 67 applying for the base is hardly what I call a stampede
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We are way of the topic here, if you want to discuss hotel etc. lets move it to the fragrant harbor forum. My last word on it is in agreement with Frogman and cheetah, But they don’t watch CCN, its Bloomberg, just ask them the exchange rates anytime of night.
Capt. Under a lot have changed from the days we left the Sandton / Pretoria Hotels. Even these hotel now advice tourists to be careful and provide escorts on shopping trips. Especially Asians are prime targets; saw in the South China Morning Post a Chinese citizen was killed on the East Rand a couple of days ago. The Cabin Crew I spoke to said if they move Hotels anywhere in JNB they will request the highest floor as they feel that is the safest. Shows you the perception visitors have of the place.
The Indaba is with in the standards as agreed to by the AOA, (same standards as most legacy carriers) if you don’t like it join up and get pro active.
Back to the topic:
They are not leaving yet, hoping for a miracle, but they sure are window shopping more then most people realize.
P.S. Correct Asian Eagle, the first "Green passports" was excepted in approx 1998.
Capt. Under a lot have changed from the days we left the Sandton / Pretoria Hotels. Even these hotel now advice tourists to be careful and provide escorts on shopping trips. Especially Asians are prime targets; saw in the South China Morning Post a Chinese citizen was killed on the East Rand a couple of days ago. The Cabin Crew I spoke to said if they move Hotels anywhere in JNB they will request the highest floor as they feel that is the safest. Shows you the perception visitors have of the place.
The Indaba is with in the standards as agreed to by the AOA, (same standards as most legacy carriers) if you don’t like it join up and get pro active.
Back to the topic:
They are not leaving yet, hoping for a miracle, but they sure are window shopping more then most people realize.
P.S. Correct Asian Eagle, the first "Green passports" was excepted in approx 1998.
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Hey Saywhat, don't be so sensitive, what we have here is generally called a "discussion", no one (I believe) is saying that your specific choice or course of action is wrong - the folks are airing their views- and one would always find all extremes being aired. It is healthy debate and could possibly help/influence a mind set or decision to be made. Good luck with yours.
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Beta Light
The Indaba is an absolute
hole and I was very very surprised to hear that you guys stay there, I lived down the road from that place a while ago and Cpt. Underpants has a fair assesment of the place.
There is no way in hell you would find SAA crew living in a hole like that (yes maybe thats why we dont make a profit...lets not go there) but SAA crew generally stay in similar hotels to other airlines around the world. Its obvious that Cathay is trying to save costs but good god, which moron said ok to the Indaba. By the way I believe your retirement age is going from 55 to 65 in one shot? so how long to command now, my mates working there estimate about 10 years to command...just asking its what I have heard.
SAA has abot 850 pilots, yes thats small compared to Cathay and most others, I have heard of 2 maybe 3 guys that have left, maybe a few others doing JAA licences, thats less than 1% of the total SAA crew numbers, lets not get all excited here and make a big thing about nothing, I know of a number of guys who left and basically begged to come back. I am quite happy at SAA with no intention of leaving, I am glad you are happy at Cathay, I like to come there occasionally and do what people do in Hong Kong, but I do not think I could live there with my family, I could if I had to but not by choice, as for Emirates, there is no way in hell you would find me there, yes nice aircraft, expansion, short wait to command, but lets factor in its a desert, its hot, its full of Arabs, expats are second class citizens, 90% probablity that your wife will move back to SA or the UK and live there while you sweat it out in the desert, you work damn hard and finally if your kids do live with you at age 20 (or 18 whatever it is) they are required to leave.........nice place, no thanks.
The Indaba is an absolute
hole and I was very very surprised to hear that you guys stay there, I lived down the road from that place a while ago and Cpt. Underpants has a fair assesment of the place.There is no way in hell you would find SAA crew living in a
hole like that (yes maybe thats why we dont make a profit...lets not go there) but SAA crew generally stay in similar hotels to other airlines around the world. Its obvious that Cathay is trying to save costs but good god, which moron said ok to the Indaba. By the way I believe your retirement age is going from 55 to 65 in one shot? so how long to command now, my mates working there estimate about 10 years to command...just asking its what I have heard.SAA has abot 850 pilots, yes thats small compared to Cathay and most others, I have heard of 2 maybe 3 guys that have left, maybe a few others doing JAA licences, thats less than 1% of the total SAA crew numbers, lets not get all excited here and make a big thing about nothing, I know of a number of guys who left and basically begged to come back. I am quite happy at SAA with no intention of leaving, I am glad you are happy at Cathay, I like to come there occasionally and do what people do in Hong Kong, but I do not think I could live there with my family, I could if I had to but not by choice, as for Emirates, there is no way in hell you would find me there, yes nice aircraft, expansion, short wait to command, but lets factor in its a desert, its
hot, its full of Arabs, expats are second class citizens, 90% probablity that your wife will move back to SA or the UK and live there while you sweat it out in the desert, you work damn hard and finally if your kids do live with you at age 20 (or 18 whatever it is) they are required to leave.........nice place, no thanks.
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Once again the question was “Pilots leaving S.A.A”. All I am saying after talking to some old class mates is………..watch this space.
I will respond to your questions regarding hotels and age 65, but I think after this we should move it to a different forum, as not only is it of topic, but maybe there will be more input from colleges that are more up to date on the topics.
As far as the Hotel’s go, we have, through the union, minimum standards that the hotels need to comply with. It is better then most legacy carriers. I found it astounding that these regulations even stipulate that the bedding have to be either cotton or silk!! As for the surroundings outside the wall there is no regulation. As B.A. recently discovered in India when the Captain cancelled the flight due to insufficient crew rest due to noise from a cricket match outside the hotel.
As I mentioned earlier I have never stayed in the hotel but as far as I understand it is not the Indaba hotel, but location. Unfortunately JNB is seen as a third world port, due to it being the port with the highest number of stolen, lost and damaged bags per seat on our network. Been a victim of it myself three times.
The company also have contract with most hotels that is a distance away from shopping malls to provide the crew with transport on a regular schedule to shopping malls. Indaba, LAX and Paris to name a few.
All hotels have a CX crew lounge including free broadband computers, unlimited use to the crew. I wont call this cost saving, as the once I use most CDG,LHR, Vancouver, Manilla etc. are the size of 3 regular rooms. I don’t know how many company’s provide similar facility’s.
Most hotels only have limited rooms for airline, as they only see us as good during the low season to keep occupancy up. I bit like the cheap tickets advertised on the Low Cost Carriers.
Over the last 3 or 4 years a lot of the destinations increased from daily to 3 daily flights, some are planned for 7 daily ( LAX being one, and looking for more slots at LHR). These crews overlap which necessitate a lot of extra rooms. Sometimes the hotels willing to take so many crews are hard to find, as crew are not big spenders in the hotels. To keep logistics simple it is preferred to keep crew together in one hotel. Remember our crews are on different patterns and different bases. Something most airlines don’t have to deal with.
Age 65 will have a very minimal impact on upgrades. The problem is the training system can only handle so much, and with the expansion and the number of aircraft arriving we unfortunately need the + 65 ers to crew these airframes. If the 65 ers go your mates will not have a command any sooner, you will just see more parked jets. They want to grow the fleet by close to 50%. No training department can handle this. The slow down, if any, will be worth it if you can add 10 years to your career, were all going to get to 55 wishing for 65. We are negotiating from a position of strength. The union just rejected the first company proposal.
I am NOT A COMPANY MAN, but
a) I have the right to leave – so have your friends if they are not happy.
b) I remember where I came from. Do I want to go back NOT – maybe your friends can go back and be happy at their previous employer
c) Have the company met my expectation? Not really, but the lifestyle sure make up for it.
I can tell you that S.A.A. and the country have not delivered on expectation to my mates who joined around the 1995 -1998 mark. It was the Promised Land, the rainbow nation, the airline that is now free from sanctions. The airline that was going to criss cross the globe. New routes and more frequency, commands was going to be in record time.
And the rest is history.
Deskjockey might be able to comfirm /deny this, But has S.A.A. now less routes /aircraft /capacity then 15 years ago, as a friend in S.A.A. claim??
I admire the loyalty of most S.A.A. crew, and I really hope it work out, firstly for some really good friends, and secondly to the benefit of aviation.
Unfortunately the indicators are bleak, and like the stock exchange people need confidence to invest.
I will respond to your questions regarding hotels and age 65, but I think after this we should move it to a different forum, as not only is it of topic, but maybe there will be more input from colleges that are more up to date on the topics.
As far as the Hotel’s go, we have, through the union, minimum standards that the hotels need to comply with. It is better then most legacy carriers. I found it astounding that these regulations even stipulate that the bedding have to be either cotton or silk!! As for the surroundings outside the wall there is no regulation. As B.A. recently discovered in India when the Captain cancelled the flight due to insufficient crew rest due to noise from a cricket match outside the hotel.
As I mentioned earlier I have never stayed in the hotel but as far as I understand it is not the Indaba hotel, but location. Unfortunately JNB is seen as a third world port, due to it being the port with the highest number of stolen, lost and damaged bags per seat on our network. Been a victim of it myself three times.
The company also have contract with most hotels that is a distance away from shopping malls to provide the crew with transport on a regular schedule to shopping malls. Indaba, LAX and Paris to name a few.
All hotels have a CX crew lounge including free broadband computers, unlimited use to the crew. I wont call this cost saving, as the once I use most CDG,LHR, Vancouver, Manilla etc. are the size of 3 regular rooms. I don’t know how many company’s provide similar facility’s.
Most hotels only have limited rooms for airline, as they only see us as good during the low season to keep occupancy up. I bit like the cheap tickets advertised on the Low Cost Carriers.
Over the last 3 or 4 years a lot of the destinations increased from daily to 3 daily flights, some are planned for 7 daily ( LAX being one, and looking for more slots at LHR). These crews overlap which necessitate a lot of extra rooms. Sometimes the hotels willing to take so many crews are hard to find, as crew are not big spenders in the hotels. To keep logistics simple it is preferred to keep crew together in one hotel. Remember our crews are on different patterns and different bases. Something most airlines don’t have to deal with.
Age 65 will have a very minimal impact on upgrades. The problem is the training system can only handle so much, and with the expansion and the number of aircraft arriving we unfortunately need the + 65 ers to crew these airframes. If the 65 ers go your mates will not have a command any sooner, you will just see more parked jets. They want to grow the fleet by close to 50%. No training department can handle this. The slow down, if any, will be worth it if you can add 10 years to your career, were all going to get to 55 wishing for 65. We are negotiating from a position of strength. The union just rejected the first company proposal.
I am NOT A COMPANY MAN, but
a) I have the right to leave – so have your friends if they are not happy.
b) I remember where I came from. Do I want to go back NOT – maybe your friends can go back and be happy at their previous employer
c) Have the company met my expectation? Not really, but the lifestyle sure make up for it.
I can tell you that S.A.A. and the country have not delivered on expectation to my mates who joined around the 1995 -1998 mark. It was the Promised Land, the rainbow nation, the airline that is now free from sanctions. The airline that was going to criss cross the globe. New routes and more frequency, commands was going to be in record time.
And the rest is history.
Deskjockey might be able to comfirm /deny this, But has S.A.A. now less routes /aircraft /capacity then 15 years ago, as a friend in S.A.A. claim??
I admire the loyalty of most S.A.A. crew, and I really hope it work out, firstly for some really good friends, and secondly to the benefit of aviation.
Unfortunately the indicators are bleak, and like the stock exchange people need confidence to invest.
Last edited by Beta Light; 29th Aug 2007 at 17:05.