SAA, the chop has started
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By Airmail:
Many of the pilots and especially cabin crew at SAA are ex-Sunair employees.
With regards to retrenchments: Firstly, two requirements of law need to be met, especially with regards to a parastatal such as SAA. It has to be both substantive (all avenues exhausted) and procedural (a plan of action regarding packages, who goes etc. must be documented, with every t crossed and i dotted). So far, the "substantive" part is pub-talk. Therefore methinks that this process will most probably take the best part of next year anyway...and as 'saywhat' has very correctly noted...three CEO's would have come and gone by then anyway.
I LOVE DEMOCRACY IN A CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY
Many of the pilots and especially cabin crew at SAA are ex-Sunair employees.
With regards to retrenchments: Firstly, two requirements of law need to be met, especially with regards to a parastatal such as SAA. It has to be both substantive (all avenues exhausted) and procedural (a plan of action regarding packages, who goes etc. must be documented, with every t crossed and i dotted). So far, the "substantive" part is pub-talk. Therefore methinks that this process will most probably take the best part of next year anyway...and as 'saywhat' has very correctly noted...three CEO's would have come and gone by then anyway.
I LOVE DEMOCRACY IN A CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY
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"S.A.A. predatory business dealings in the FliteStar / Avia and Sun Air days
Avia was Gert de Klerks' money moving scheme which was so effective it only lasted a couple of months.
As for Sun Air, another great operation, you can't allow your direct competition ( Comair ) to control your board of directors ( 2 out of 5, if I'm not mistaken ) and expect to do a roaring trade.
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Hey Avi8tor, why don't you come work for SAA and we'll start a B scale, JUST FOR YOU!! Or maybe you are personally so worthless that SAA won't have to pay you at all?
As civil servants, something to think about.
Last edited by Avi8tor; 27th Jul 2007 at 20:15.
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I am concerned about my tax RAND
I bet your total tax liability per annum in SA is less than I pay in VAT each month....
Not that it really makes a difference. It is amusing to see you playing the taxpayer card from the foreign desert.
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Really not the point, dont you think?
Why should the tax payer be supporting SAA at all? I can see why the employees at SAA would get real nervous if there was a change in the status quo.
I have said before, I bet every departement at SAA thinks is EVERYBODY else thats over paid and under worked.
Cut the apron strings and let SAA sink or swim. The industry will be better off in the long run.
Why should the tax payer be supporting SAA at all? I can see why the employees at SAA would get real nervous if there was a change in the status quo.
I have said before, I bet every departement at SAA thinks is EVERYBODY else thats over paid and under worked.
Cut the apron strings and let SAA sink or swim. The industry will be better off in the long run.
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You are right Avi8tor. It is not really the point, but you dodged the question. You post from overseas and act if you personally pay to keep SAA and SAX flying.
A few examples:
From this thread
From"All recruitment at SAA on hold (The world according to JetNut thread)"
From "SAA restructuring info"
From"SAA - the bottomless pit"
From "SAA vs Pilot Shortage"
So, how much do you really contribute to SA's tax coffers? Or is it just a nice argument for an expat.....
Remember that we know each other, so this is in good humour....
A few examples:
From this thread
with out me, the tax payer
Wonder if i am FINALLY gonna stop wasting my taxes on the national carrier?
without me, the tax payer, pitching in.
as long as it’s not my tax money paying for it.
the state starts to using my tax ZAR
Remember that we know each other, so this is in good humour....
17 pilots
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AVIATOR, I would not be to loud about the tax payer paying for SAA when in Dubai the government is subsidizing the fuel and aircraft purchases. If it was not for the generous terms the government ...sorry royal family... gave to EK I wonder if it would be as big as it is now.
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Hi
The question is: Can SAA survive without the taxpayers ?
The answer is NO
Spoories ala SAA/ SAL cost the taxpayers more that 100 -300 Billion since 1934.
SAA is a brain-dead useless organisation and a disgrace for capitalism.
You Skygods are flying for a fool’s paradise. I guess you guys should sooner than later seriously think about layoffs.
I would like to see the Skygod’s working for real money, - flying contract in Afghanistan or Sudan in a Twin Otter or 1900, doing 100 per month and staying a places generally known as Cockroach –Inns.
TFC
The question is: Can SAA survive without the taxpayers ?
The answer is NO
Spoories ala SAA/ SAL cost the taxpayers more that 100 -300 Billion since 1934.
SAA is a brain-dead useless organisation and a disgrace for capitalism.
You Skygods are flying for a fool’s paradise. I guess you guys should sooner than later seriously think about layoffs.
I would like to see the Skygod’s working for real money, - flying contract in Afghanistan or Sudan in a Twin Otter or 1900, doing 100 per month and staying a places generally known as Cockroach –Inns.
TFC
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Circus...
Been there done that...got holes blown in the t-shirt. Any other requirements SAA pilots need to meet ?
PS: Nugpot, Frogman...well said!
I would like to see the Skygod’s working for real money, - flying contract in Afghanistan or Sudan in a Twin Otter or 1900, doing 100 per month and staying a places generally known as Cockroach –Inns.
Been there done that...got holes blown in the t-shirt. Any other requirements SAA pilots need to meet ?
PS: Nugpot, Frogman...well said!
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You missed the point sir. If you look at profit reporting for Q1 and Q2 the figures are shocking. On the other hand , if you loss- making employer can still pay you salaries after making 20 Billion the last few years then you are either in good hand or living in a bubble.
The chances are good that your current T-Shirt is already full of holes and needs a replacement soon.
Isn’t it a pie in the sky business, overregulated with super egos?
I would seriously worry if my employer is in the same financial boat than SAA with Brent reaching for $ 100/ barrel.
TFC
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Isn’t it a pie in the sky business, overregulated with super egos?
I don't know why I keep responding to this perpetual mediocrity, but I just can't help myself...
Firstly, I do agree with you on this point, circus, the operative word in your quote is overregulated. And as long as the government insists on appointing the controlling board who in turn appoints the CEO, who in turn appoints top management (this doesn't always happen though, as in some cases at SAA the board appoints top management directly, which becomes a corporate governance issue...but thats a seperate topic), and competitors like Comair etc, have very miniscule political/government interference, SAA will continuously run at a loss, and the pilots will continuously receive the compensation they rightly deserve.
And having said that, I'm very confident that every single pilot at SAA has no trouble sleeping at night, even with doomsaday rumours of "retrenchment", because there are hundreds of companies throughout the world who will gladly accept their resumes. However, the same can't be said of individuals occupying current management positions (which have nothing to do with flying).
"A fish rots from the head"
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An interesting thought. . .
Does the amount of P.A.Y.E. paid to SARS by SAA employees exceed its losses. After all, some airlines don't have the burden of P.A.Y.E.
I'm NOT suggesting that SAA is well run!
Also, if SAA were to disappear, most of the L/R capacity would be provided by airlines from the overseas; OR, Nationwide's B767 would be a very busy bee.
Thus a large percentage of the 10,000 odd jobs would be transferred elsewhere.(if only temporarily) Say 6,000 less homeowners, car owners, VAT payers, etc. would be lost to this economy.
How would this affect my TAX, not to mention the skills drain of tech engineers, aircrew, etc.?
Does the amount of P.A.Y.E. paid to SARS by SAA employees exceed its losses. After all, some airlines don't have the burden of P.A.Y.E.
I'm NOT suggesting that SAA is well run!
Also, if SAA were to disappear, most of the L/R capacity would be provided by airlines from the overseas; OR, Nationwide's B767 would be a very busy bee.
Thus a large percentage of the 10,000 odd jobs would be transferred elsewhere.(if only temporarily) Say 6,000 less homeowners, car owners, VAT payers, etc. would be lost to this economy.How would this affect my TAX, not to mention the skills drain of tech engineers, aircrew, etc.?
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Thus a large percentage of the 10,000 odd jobs would be transferred elsewhere.(if only temporarily)
Seem to remember that in 2004 SAA could have given each passenger R245 and told them to fly elsewhere, I would have been better off.
I am not saying the changed face of SA airlines will not come without pain, but if its NOT done, I promise we will be having this same debate every few yrs.
All the 'legacy' carriers have been through this, BA had to go broke twice before it sorted itself out. Italy and Greece are up that tree now.
But the proof is in the eating, look where BA/AF/KLM/LH are now and how ALL the airlines in those countries have prospered. A bankrupt national carrier only stunts the growth of the WHOLE industry.