Transnet to sell SAX ???
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Does this journo know the details of Lease Agreements for the 4 additional CRJ's? If he did, he would not boast about things he "stumbled" upon...
Lets just say that a significant % discount on Lease Rates makes R8 mill per C-Check insignificant, does it not...? Especially considering that SAX does C-Checks
Lets just say that a significant % discount on Lease Rates makes R8 mill per C-Check insignificant, does it not...? Especially considering that SAX does C-Checks
Your ignorance is showing. Sax has never received capitalisation from the government. Every cent was borrowed and they are well on the way of paying that off.
Most of SAX's aircraft are leased, which means that the cost of aircraft is actually reflected in the operating budget. That means operating profit is a lot better than you make it sound.
Guys, dont wanna burst ur bubble, but what they are doing is creative accounting. Paying themselves massive bonuses for the 'profits'. Then when the 'everything' hits the fan, they get a severance package. Its a great scheme. Been doing it at SAA for yrs.
Do you really think there gonna tell you its going broke?
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Nugs,
Im afriad you are wasting your time, some folk here including ol avi are hell bent on their view of the world- the facts just get in the way of a good argument.
Im afriad you are wasting your time, some folk here including ol avi are hell bent on their view of the world- the facts just get in the way of a good argument.
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The nice thing is the 'FACTS' seem to be rather plainly laid out in the article in the Business Day.
Now guys, I am sorry, thats NOT my opinion, but that of an audit firm.
I am sure had they NOT been correct. Somebody would have said so.
I am the last one to let facts get in the way of a good argument. But guys, yet again, if you dont like the 'FACTS" I present to u guys, dont shoot the messenger. These are out of a reputiable business news paper and from very crediable sources in the industry. Dont play the man, play the ball.
Sorry, my 'view of the world' is that the state run airlines are making a piss poor job of it. DJ or any of the the others have yet to put anything on the table to prove otherwise.
Solution - Get the state out of airlines. Hence where the thread started.
I can show you snippets out of financial statements to make SAA look like a gold mine. Some of the BEST frauds have been committed this way. Only the final AUDITED balance sheet will show the truth.
The nice thing about this is that it wont be long before Transnet's annual results will be out.
Then the matter will be laid to rest.
Auditors APF Chartered Accountants say this “material uncertainty” casts “significant doubt on its ability to continue as a going concern”.
I am sure had they NOT been correct. Somebody would have said so.
I am the last one to let facts get in the way of a good argument. But guys, yet again, if you dont like the 'FACTS" I present to u guys, dont shoot the messenger. These are out of a reputiable business news paper and from very crediable sources in the industry. Dont play the man, play the ball.
Nugs,
Im afriad you are wasting your time, some folk here including ol avi are hell bent on their view of the world
Im afriad you are wasting your time, some folk here including ol avi are hell bent on their view of the world
Solution - Get the state out of airlines. Hence where the thread started.
Avi8Tor, all I can say is that you are wrong. I see the financials - budget and results.
The nice thing about this is that it wont be long before Transnet's annual results will be out.
Then the matter will be laid to rest.
Last edited by Avi8tor; 22nd Jun 2007 at 13:04.
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AV8r....
Absolutely agree with you. When ministers appoint the board of an airline or any other business for that matter we all know whats going to happen.
These morons don't care about aviation. They didn't grow up dreaming of flying. So what happens....they milk it for as long as they can and then get out, and move into another industry, leaving us to pick up the pieces.
Guys like DJ run the business skewed by blatant arrogance, thereby leaving no room to make decisions based on proper research. State-owned airlines throughout the world have fallen in the same trap, politicians should leave the running of a complex business to people with the know-how.
But....although its frustrating, I know that in 10 years from now I'll be flying 787's for SAA, dealing with a brand new gang of idiots on the sixth floor.
Absolutely agree with you. When ministers appoint the board of an airline or any other business for that matter we all know whats going to happen.
These morons don't care about aviation. They didn't grow up dreaming of flying. So what happens....they milk it for as long as they can and then get out, and move into another industry, leaving us to pick up the pieces.
Guys like DJ run the business skewed by blatant arrogance, thereby leaving no room to make decisions based on proper research. State-owned airlines throughout the world have fallen in the same trap, politicians should leave the running of a complex business to people with the know-how.
But....although its frustrating, I know that in 10 years from now I'll be flying 787's for SAA, dealing with a brand new gang of idiots on the sixth floor.
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suitcaseman, please show me how this can be a fact. SAX was never for sale. Maria Ramos said in a Transnet briefing that SAX might be sold.
I guess it is the same kind of fact that all captains are arrogant and selfish.......
I guess it is the same kind of fact that all captains are arrogant and selfish.......
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even gave conditions of the sale which had been negociated by the union
Having been there, I can only say that you are misinformed. SAX never was for sale.
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Sorry, my 'view of the world' is that the state run airlines are making a piss poor job of it. DJ or any of the the others have yet to put anything on the table to prove otherwise.
Solution - Get the state out of airlines. Hence where the thread started.
Solution - Get the state out of airlines. Hence where the thread started.
Avi8tor,
Just a question wrt your statement
making a piss poor job of it.
If things are so "piss poor", how and why did your CV get to the SAX Recruitment desk?
Maria was stating "as a fact" that SAX would be sold off by the end of the year.
Last edited by Q4NVS; 23rd Jun 2007 at 19:30. Reason: Because I still can...
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Is it not true that you were called for a SAX Interview just before you left Airlink (and SA) for Dubai?
Looks like the FACTS are getting in the way of a good rumor.
I dont understand why the SAA/SAX crew on this forum are not joining me in calling for government to get out of running their respective airlines?
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I dont understand why the SAA/SAX crew on this forum are not joining me in calling for government to get out of running their respective airlines?
I don't understand what any of this has to do with someone who fled to Dubai.
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Cause unlike some people, I have the greater interest of the industry at heart. Might not be there, but still would like to see EVERYBODY doing well.
Also not sure my selfish, money grabbing ways has anything to do with SAX financial pickle?
Also not sure my selfish, money grabbing ways has anything to do with SAX financial pickle?
Last edited by Avi8tor; 24th Jun 2007 at 19:41.
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Guys like DJ run the business skewed by blatant arrogance, thereby leaving no room to make decisions based on proper research. State-owned airlines throughout the world have fallen in the same trap, politicians should leave the running of a complex business to people with the know-how.
But....although its frustrating, I know that in 10 years from now I'll be flying 787's for SAA, dealing with a brand new gang of idiots on the sixth floor.
But....although its frustrating, I know that in 10 years from now I'll be flying 787's for SAA, dealing with a brand new gang of idiots on the sixth floor.
I find it most interesting you feel you will be flying 787's in ten years, most interesting indeed. Yes, perhaps you will be flying them but not for SAA! Ignorance is bliss I suppose, but if it works for you...
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Hello DeskJerk,
You've managed to contradict yourself in the space of one posting. You claim that decisions are made at SAA based on business research, and then say that it takes six months to implement, and some big idiots shoot from the hip.
All this is saying to me (and the rest of SA) is that no proper research is ever done, and all decisions are taken ad hoc in crisis management. Otherwise, if proper research was actually done (and SAA management actually earned their salaries, like the pilots), then one would know exactly when time was of the essence in decision-making.
The airline industry is an extremely dynamic cut-throat environment, with no room for under-achievers. Fools running airline's will find themselves in a perpetual state of catch-up (if not out-of-work).
The South African economy is booming like it never has before. All major companies are capitalising on this. A simple example is SAB, today the second largest beer consortium in the world, with a huge stake in the Chinese market (a tough foreign market to penetrate). Yet, SAA is lagging so far behind that it's actually an embarrassment.
Why would an airline ever lease aircraft (on a time-scale contract with hundreds of clauses)????
Ask the question, what is the core function of this business? Answer: It is passenger/cargo transportation, with aircraft being your core asset. Why would any business rely on another totally seperate entity for the supply of a core asset, the risks are far too high (and we are seeing some of the problems now), if that supplier goes bust, there's no other to replace it in a short space of time. Only a complete business moron would engage in contracts like that. One doesn't see ESKOM leasing a nuclear power-plant....
Its so fliipin' frustrating to watch.
DJ, how do you (and your cronies) justify your salaries, when you're obviously not competent enough to run this complex organisation (as the financial results have shown)....maybe you should become a journalist, as you seem to enjoy writing (crap).
I'm glad you seem to have no hope for this company, which only strengthens my previous statement...you okes are clueless.
You've managed to contradict yourself in the space of one posting. You claim that decisions are made at SAA based on business research, and then say that it takes six months to implement, and some big idiots shoot from the hip.
All this is saying to me (and the rest of SA) is that no proper research is ever done, and all decisions are taken ad hoc in crisis management. Otherwise, if proper research was actually done (and SAA management actually earned their salaries, like the pilots), then one would know exactly when time was of the essence in decision-making.
The airline industry is an extremely dynamic cut-throat environment, with no room for under-achievers. Fools running airline's will find themselves in a perpetual state of catch-up (if not out-of-work).
The South African economy is booming like it never has before. All major companies are capitalising on this. A simple example is SAB, today the second largest beer consortium in the world, with a huge stake in the Chinese market (a tough foreign market to penetrate). Yet, SAA is lagging so far behind that it's actually an embarrassment.
Why would an airline ever lease aircraft (on a time-scale contract with hundreds of clauses)????
Ask the question, what is the core function of this business? Answer: It is passenger/cargo transportation, with aircraft being your core asset. Why would any business rely on another totally seperate entity for the supply of a core asset, the risks are far too high (and we are seeing some of the problems now), if that supplier goes bust, there's no other to replace it in a short space of time. Only a complete business moron would engage in contracts like that. One doesn't see ESKOM leasing a nuclear power-plant....
Its so fliipin' frustrating to watch.
DJ, how do you (and your cronies) justify your salaries, when you're obviously not competent enough to run this complex organisation (as the financial results have shown)....maybe you should become a journalist, as you seem to enjoy writing (crap).
I'm glad you seem to have no hope for this company, which only strengthens my previous statement...you okes are clueless.
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Tisk Tisk, Jetbut, the only moron here is you, in fact Im pretty sure the only way you managed to sneak in at SAA was because your daddy organised it.
The only thing your post tells the rest of SA is that there are some (thank goodness not all) real pricks flying for SAA! Something that has come up for debate here on pprune a number of times.
Interesting you took my post to mean I have no hope in the future of SAA, actually my insinuation was more clearly directed at you, but then I suppose it was too subtle for a University graduate such as yourself, moron.
The only thing your post tells the rest of SA is that there are some (thank goodness not all) real pricks flying for SAA! Something that has come up for debate here on pprune a number of times.
Interesting you took my post to mean I have no hope in the future of SAA, actually my insinuation was more clearly directed at you, but then I suppose it was too subtle for a University graduate such as yourself, moron.
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Simmer down gents. It's bad enough you have the clowns in charge trying to run the company into the ground while dipping into the taxpayer's pocket, but to tear it apart from inside is not going to help matters.
Maybe you should meet in the carpark with a sixpack each and settle this like men - a down-down competition....
Maybe you should meet in the carpark with a sixpack each and settle this like men - a down-down competition....
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That looked like handbags at 30 paces stuff, very back in the 3rd grade.
The idea of this forum is that people express opinions on facts as they see them. Other people of similar interest, debate the issues with differing opinions and introduce new facts and ideas.
Just because somebody has a different opinion to you doesnt warrent name calling or getting personal.
The fact that SAA is under performing the rest of the SA economy and world wide industry trends in undisputable.
But nobody is suggesting that anybody who posts here is single handedly responsible.
Leave the name calling to the 7 year olds.
The idea of this forum is that people express opinions on facts as they see them. Other people of similar interest, debate the issues with differing opinions and introduce new facts and ideas.
Just because somebody has a different opinion to you doesnt warrent name calling or getting personal.
The fact that SAA is under performing the rest of the SA economy and world wide industry trends in undisputable.
But nobody is suggesting that anybody who posts here is single handedly responsible.
Leave the name calling to the 7 year olds.
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Transnet expects more money from the sale of the remaining few businesses, with the Carlton Centre expected to fetch a huge profit. CEO Maria Ramos said yesterday the other remaining assets, which include SA Express, Shosholoza Meyl, autopax, the Blue Train, arivia.kom, Freightdynamics and several properties, would be disposed of by March .
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Anybody know who Deskjockey is? Or will he be a man and tell us himself. Come on!
So why dont you be a man and tell us who you are Mr Comair.
