Helderberg: The Mystery Solved?
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To clarify what I said earlier, the reason you wouldn't attempt to deliver a "gun type" fission device by artillery shell is that it is in essence a large moving part. The risk of damaging the bomb mechanism on firing is great. Plus a "gun type" device is large and heavy.
That's not to say it's impossible - just difficult.
Because the moving parts of an implosion type device are easy to fix in place and ligher weight it lends itself far more readily to this method of delivery.
Vonkprop The De Klerk government never admitted either building or testing a mini-nuke (although the S Atlantic test certainly happened). I'm interested in any other observations you might have made at that time. Did you for example see the core of an implosion device? Gun type devices are not timing critical so your mention of timers is interesting...
That's not to say it's impossible - just difficult.
Because the moving parts of an implosion type device are easy to fix in place and ligher weight it lends itself far more readily to this method of delivery.
Vonkprop The De Klerk government never admitted either building or testing a mini-nuke (although the S Atlantic test certainly happened). I'm interested in any other observations you might have made at that time. Did you for example see the core of an implosion device? Gun type devices are not timing critical so your mention of timers is interesting...
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A recent internal CAA publication details how Abrahams gave a presentation on the Helderberg accident to some or the other group (toastmasters?) with the express intention of refining his story to make it more believable. Another article in the same publication says that various CAA staff have been tasked with monitoring some websites for feedback on CAA's activities.
RIP Helderberg victims - I feel another "under the carpet" session is on the way.
RIP Helderberg victims - I feel another "under the carpet" session is on the way.
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Unteleported Man
The reason the present government is trying to cover this debacle up is all related to insurance claims and possible lawsuites from the families of the deceased. Believe me, the payouts will be HUGE if all these theories or just one, are proved to be true.
There are families of 159 victims of this crash that still do not have all the answers so if for no other reason than for them, lets hope all is finally revealed!!!!!
The reason the present government is trying to cover this debacle up is all related to insurance claims and possible lawsuites from the families of the deceased. Believe me, the payouts will be HUGE if all these theories or just one, are proved to be true.
There are families of 159 victims of this crash that still do not have all the answers so if for no other reason than for them, lets hope all is finally revealed!!!!!
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If it's shown to be a wiring fault, then wouldn't that be the responsibility of Boeing, DuPont (as the manufacturers of Kapton) and probably SAA (especially as there had been previous incidents of fires on this aircraft).
Can't really see how any covert cargo would hurt the current government financially??
Can't really see how any covert cargo would hurt the current government financially??
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I Don't know about the time limit for claims but any lawyer worth his salt will be able to find his way around that.
The point is, if SAA were carrying illegal/undeclared cargo, the insurance company won't pay out regardless of what caused the fire. We all know that any insurer will use the smallest discrepancy to avoid a pay out ( although this is anything BUT a minor discrepancy). SAA (SA Government) will then have to foot the bill regardless of who the ruling party was at the time.
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: The General ]
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: The General ]
The point is, if SAA were carrying illegal/undeclared cargo, the insurance company won't pay out regardless of what caused the fire. We all know that any insurer will use the smallest discrepancy to avoid a pay out ( although this is anything BUT a minor discrepancy). SAA (SA Government) will then have to foot the bill regardless of who the ruling party was at the time.
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: The General ]
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: The General ]
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Guv
have you checked out if Kapton had been indicated in other in-flight fires, other that this aircraft? If a material behaves if a specific way, then it usually does so on more that one occasion. In aviation it is very rare to have a single occurence of such behaviour. If it was the Kapton there will certainly be other incidents as well.
have you checked out if Kapton had been indicated in other in-flight fires, other that this aircraft? If a material behaves if a specific way, then it usually does so on more that one occasion. In aviation it is very rare to have a single occurence of such behaviour. If it was the Kapton there will certainly be other incidents as well.
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thwack11 - there have been many, many incidents with Kapton. Check out www.iasa.com.au for more information.
It's blamed for bringing down SR111 and (probably) TW800 amongst others - there's a list of all the major incidents on the site.
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
It's blamed for bringing down SR111 and (probably) TW800 amongst others - there's a list of all the major incidents on the site.
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
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Nog Helderberg-nuus van Beeld:
H'berg-vlugopnemer moet weer ontwar word - Omar
Philip de Bruin
Die minister van vervoer, mnr. Dullah Omar, het opdrag gegee dat die oorspronklike vlugopnemer van die Helderberg-rampvlug vir 'n tweede keer na die VSA geneem word om daar ontwar te word.
Omar se opdrag is dat die National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) van die VSA die ontwarrring doen. Die NTSB word as een van die gesaghebbendste vervoerveiligheidsliggame ter wêreld beskou.
Dié ontwikkeling in die hernieude ondersoeke na die ware oorsaak van die Helderbergramp in 1987 is gisteraand deur mnr. Mark Whale van die Skerpioene aan Beeld bevestig. Whale ondersoek die Helderberg saam met adv. John Welch van die Nasionale Vervolgingsgesag.
Een van die aspekte wat die NTSB spesifiek oor verslag moet doen, is die bewyse wat in 'n nuwe transkripsie van 'n afskrif van die vlugopnemer gevind is dat 'n bemanningslid van die Helderberg - vermoedelik kapt. Dawie Uys, die vlie'nier, self - in 'n stadium gesê het dat daar vuurpylbrandstof aan boord is en dat dit vermoedelik die brand veroorsaak het wat tot die ramp gelei het.
Die transkripsie met die vuurpylbrandstof-bewerings in is in Julie deur mnr. Jack Mitchell, 'n forensiese kundige van die VSA, bekend gemaak nadat hy die Helderberg se vlugopnemer met die hulp van die mees moderne ontwarringsapparaat ter wêreld ontwar het.
Dit was juis 'n vroe're ontwarring van Mitchell in Mei verlede jaar wat daartoe gelei het dat Welch en Whale aangestel is om opnuut ondersoek te doen na die Helderbergramp. Hulle is aangestel nadat verskeie onthullings gepubliseer is oor die moontlikheid dat daar plofstowwe aan boord van die Helderberg was.
'n Jaar gelede het Welch en Whale die oorspronklike vlugopnemer na die FBI in die VSA gevat. Die FBI het toe bevestig dat die kopie van die vlugopnemer waarmee Mitchell gewerk het 100% klop met die oorspronklike vlugopnemer.
Philip de Bruin
Die minister van vervoer, mnr. Dullah Omar, het opdrag gegee dat die oorspronklike vlugopnemer van die Helderberg-rampvlug vir 'n tweede keer na die VSA geneem word om daar ontwar te word.
Omar se opdrag is dat die National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) van die VSA die ontwarrring doen. Die NTSB word as een van die gesaghebbendste vervoerveiligheidsliggame ter wêreld beskou.
Dié ontwikkeling in die hernieude ondersoeke na die ware oorsaak van die Helderbergramp in 1987 is gisteraand deur mnr. Mark Whale van die Skerpioene aan Beeld bevestig. Whale ondersoek die Helderberg saam met adv. John Welch van die Nasionale Vervolgingsgesag.
Een van die aspekte wat die NTSB spesifiek oor verslag moet doen, is die bewyse wat in 'n nuwe transkripsie van 'n afskrif van die vlugopnemer gevind is dat 'n bemanningslid van die Helderberg - vermoedelik kapt. Dawie Uys, die vlie'nier, self - in 'n stadium gesê het dat daar vuurpylbrandstof aan boord is en dat dit vermoedelik die brand veroorsaak het wat tot die ramp gelei het.
Die transkripsie met die vuurpylbrandstof-bewerings in is in Julie deur mnr. Jack Mitchell, 'n forensiese kundige van die VSA, bekend gemaak nadat hy die Helderberg se vlugopnemer met die hulp van die mees moderne ontwarringsapparaat ter wêreld ontwar het.
Dit was juis 'n vroe're ontwarring van Mitchell in Mei verlede jaar wat daartoe gelei het dat Welch en Whale aangestel is om opnuut ondersoek te doen na die Helderbergramp. Hulle is aangestel nadat verskeie onthullings gepubliseer is oor die moontlikheid dat daar plofstowwe aan boord van die Helderberg was.
'n Jaar gelede het Welch en Whale die oorspronklike vlugopnemer na die FBI in die VSA gevat. Die FBI het toe bevestig dat die kopie van die vlugopnemer waarmee Mitchell gewerk het 100% klop met die oorspronklike vlugopnemer.
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Helderberg and SA Nukes
Anything you read here is opinions, consider them as such.
Well, just have to say, yes, there were nukes in SA in 1987, they were on an AD of which I was in charge of the security (and I had a lot of AD's, borders and key points under my wing). I know of 20 units, they weren't terribly 'clean', however they were functional. I always wondered where they got fissile material, I thought it might be Kooberg, but it wasn't. I was told a story by CI in 1987 about a reactor in Canada that had 27kg of 'spent' rods go missing. Seems that rumour was confirmed on my return from overseas, since I had actually done a lot of the work on the reactors locally and knew people in 'low places', I was privy to information, even if it was all bad in this case. South Africa, was as most countries were with nukes, if they used them, all hell would break lose. Magnus once told me it was their weapon of last resort, should all other plans fail.
Now, the Helderberg, that one I am not going to expand on too much here, since I wrote a book that contains much of what I know and the story of why and how the plane was taken down. I was a 'contractor' and a 'meckanic' and worked for Armscor, QMG and CI designing and building permanent solutions. I gave David Klatzow some of the information already, but as far as I am concerned he drags his feet. I told him I would publish before he finished his investigation and I have.
The SAA was transporting both fissile material and accelerant, both from an asian country to the north and east. The fissile material was highly enriched, extremely 'hot' and it was coming in for one of my designs that was being built by another invisible contractor to Armscor. The accelerant, which was a back up plan for conventional weapons (SAMS) was going to two separate companies, not one as Klatzow was thinking. Three people on the plane knew what they were carrying. There is so much more I know about...
I would like to get in touch with the families of the Helderberg victims as I would like to explain to them what I know, as personally as possible, before any of this goes mainstream. I think they deserve an explanation, as much as I can give them anyway and I don't want to see it sanitized by governments or investigators.
Meckanic
Well, just have to say, yes, there were nukes in SA in 1987, they were on an AD of which I was in charge of the security (and I had a lot of AD's, borders and key points under my wing). I know of 20 units, they weren't terribly 'clean', however they were functional. I always wondered where they got fissile material, I thought it might be Kooberg, but it wasn't. I was told a story by CI in 1987 about a reactor in Canada that had 27kg of 'spent' rods go missing. Seems that rumour was confirmed on my return from overseas, since I had actually done a lot of the work on the reactors locally and knew people in 'low places', I was privy to information, even if it was all bad in this case. South Africa, was as most countries were with nukes, if they used them, all hell would break lose. Magnus once told me it was their weapon of last resort, should all other plans fail.
Now, the Helderberg, that one I am not going to expand on too much here, since I wrote a book that contains much of what I know and the story of why and how the plane was taken down. I was a 'contractor' and a 'meckanic' and worked for Armscor, QMG and CI designing and building permanent solutions. I gave David Klatzow some of the information already, but as far as I am concerned he drags his feet. I told him I would publish before he finished his investigation and I have.
The SAA was transporting both fissile material and accelerant, both from an asian country to the north and east. The fissile material was highly enriched, extremely 'hot' and it was coming in for one of my designs that was being built by another invisible contractor to Armscor. The accelerant, which was a back up plan for conventional weapons (SAMS) was going to two separate companies, not one as Klatzow was thinking. Three people on the plane knew what they were carrying. There is so much more I know about...
I would like to get in touch with the families of the Helderberg victims as I would like to explain to them what I know, as personally as possible, before any of this goes mainstream. I think they deserve an explanation, as much as I can give them anyway and I don't want to see it sanitized by governments or investigators.
Meckanic
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The man to speak to is David Klatzoff (hope it's spelled correctly)
He was the INDEPENDANT forensic investigator in charge of the Helderberg crash. A very intelligent man with a lot of information. The government (old and new) hates his guts. Google his name.
He was the INDEPENDANT forensic investigator in charge of the Helderberg crash. A very intelligent man with a lot of information. The government (old and new) hates his guts. Google his name.
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Thanks Meckanic
I would assume that the fissile material was recovered or else Mauritius would have a nice radioactive spot on there coast if the material got out of its container that is.
I would assume that the fissile material was recovered or else Mauritius would have a nice radioactive spot on there coast if the material got out of its container that is.
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Fissile Material and Other Matters
I don't know the status of the material, it might however be a little difficult to locate and recover a couple of kilo's of material where the plane went down. Otherwise, they would have picked up the black box as well. Consider that any subsequent explosion caused by wing ignition could have sent the material a few of kilometers from the event point and that would force an underwater excavation and salvage program covering between 100 and 200 square miles. That's a radioactive needle in a haystack under a lot of water.
Now, Dr. Klatzow may have a number of interesting 'theories' regadless of which, he wasn't there, working for Armscor, dealing with CI/MI, the SADF, QMG/KMG or running back and forth between military bases, border bases and keypoints, as far as I know. However, I was doing this from 86 onward.
That isn't to say that I don't find Klatzow intelligent and headstrong in his pursuit of the truth. I do find however, that it took 2 or 3 months for him to get back to me (I contacted connected people in December 2005, he contacted me back February 2006). If this case is so important to him, why not jump on it? Why not send the people to take my deposition (I already told him I would not go back to SA, I'd be dead before I got off the steps and onto the tarmac).
But, time will tell, my book is out now, I've done my part with the exception of talking to the families of the victims of the Helderberg.
Now, Dr. Klatzow may have a number of interesting 'theories' regadless of which, he wasn't there, working for Armscor, dealing with CI/MI, the SADF, QMG/KMG or running back and forth between military bases, border bases and keypoints, as far as I know. However, I was doing this from 86 onward.
That isn't to say that I don't find Klatzow intelligent and headstrong in his pursuit of the truth. I do find however, that it took 2 or 3 months for him to get back to me (I contacted connected people in December 2005, he contacted me back February 2006). If this case is so important to him, why not jump on it? Why not send the people to take my deposition (I already told him I would not go back to SA, I'd be dead before I got off the steps and onto the tarmac).
But, time will tell, my book is out now, I've done my part with the exception of talking to the families of the victims of the Helderberg.