ADC Flight 53 Accident + Investigation
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Anybody ever asked if that airplane had complied with Boeings' AWD airworthiness directive on the rudder?
I guess no-one will; i know of two others that have not!!!!!
Keep flying boys, show them what you're made of!!!!
Keep mute and see what happens to you all, your jobs going to expats; will be the least of concerns eventually.
This is for those concerned, and they sure know themselves.
I guess no-one will; i know of two others that have not!!!!!
Keep flying boys, show them what you're made of!!!!
Keep mute and see what happens to you all, your jobs going to expats; will be the least of concerns eventually.
This is for those concerned, and they sure know themselves.
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It's important that we don't jump to conclusions here but we all must be concerned to hear the suggestion that the NCAA or NAMA or NIMET should have the power to close the airport when there is bad weather in the vicinity.
These types of operational decisions can only be taken by the PIC. The responsibility of the controller and the met guy is to be sure the PIC has the best available information on which to base his or her decision.
The operator, and to an extent, the NCAA, has the responsibility of ensuring the PIC has the knowledge and experience to make proper decisions, using all available information.
Nigerian authorities could move out of step with the rest of the world, and give the poor controller the responsibility for closing airspace due weather, but what about other operational decisions?
These types of operational decisions can only be taken by the PIC. The responsibility of the controller and the met guy is to be sure the PIC has the best available information on which to base his or her decision.
The operator, and to an extent, the NCAA, has the responsibility of ensuring the PIC has the knowledge and experience to make proper decisions, using all available information.
Nigerian authorities could move out of step with the rest of the world, and give the poor controller the responsibility for closing airspace due weather, but what about other operational decisions?
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If the weather was as bad as they claim it was, ATC reserves the right to close the airfield boys.
We all know the history of ADC, that aircraft and its serviceability is suspect.
We all know the history of ADC, that aircraft and its serviceability is suspect.
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Ak6181,your comment says it all.
If professional pilots flying in Nigeria can make this statement,then perhaps the Nigerian aviation industry needs to be swamped with expats so a new culture can be instilled.
Arik keep the flag flying.When I have to pass through the Nigerian aviation grave yard its Arik,or aero for me only.Sorry blue tail and VK,but cant risk it.
If professional pilots flying in Nigeria can make this statement,then perhaps the Nigerian aviation industry needs to be swamped with expats so a new culture can be instilled.
Arik keep the flag flying.When I have to pass through the Nigerian aviation grave yard its Arik,or aero for me only.Sorry blue tail and VK,but cant risk it.
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AVSEC,
Your comments say it all as well. Why should the Nigerian Aviation scene be swamped by expats before a different culture can be instilled? Nothing wrong with expats especially if they bring unique skills that are unavailable locally. Sometimes, it's not the culture but resources that are required. A lot of people within the system know what to do and how to do it.Do you know that the whole of the NCAA Airworthiness dept consists of only 24 surveyors and that includes the DG? Do you know that they are paid a paltry 50K a month?
As for Arik keeping the flag flying, I wish them well but they are just reharshing everything VK has done already. Nothing new. Why do you always have to divert the discussion in order to praise your paymasters? I would also think that with complete operational oversight of VK by VS, I know which of the 2 I'd choose. An airline supported by a big international carrier, or one that has less than a week's experience in the market.
Your comments say it all as well. Why should the Nigerian Aviation scene be swamped by expats before a different culture can be instilled? Nothing wrong with expats especially if they bring unique skills that are unavailable locally. Sometimes, it's not the culture but resources that are required. A lot of people within the system know what to do and how to do it.Do you know that the whole of the NCAA Airworthiness dept consists of only 24 surveyors and that includes the DG? Do you know that they are paid a paltry 50K a month?
As for Arik keeping the flag flying, I wish them well but they are just reharshing everything VK has done already. Nothing new. Why do you always have to divert the discussion in order to praise your paymasters? I would also think that with complete operational oversight of VK by VS, I know which of the 2 I'd choose. An airline supported by a big international carrier, or one that has less than a week's experience in the market.
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Back to the point behind these posts, has anyone any idea as to what really happened to the aircraft???????
We should all keep our personal problems to ourselves. Lets stick to the business at hand.
What happened and what can we possibly do to avert a future occurence?
Cheers all.
We should all keep our personal problems to ourselves. Lets stick to the business at hand.
What happened and what can we possibly do to avert a future occurence?
Cheers all.
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ADC Flight 53 Accident + Investigation
Tower Conversation Transcript
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very chilling!
source: The Guardian (Lagos)
---------------------------------
Time Station Transmission Explanation Notes
10:14:30 A/C ABUJA ADK 053 request start-up -
- Twr ADK 053 roger UNH 1011, temperature 30 time 1015,
start-up approved
- A/C Start-up approved, could you say again the UNH and
temperature?
- Twr 1011,30
10:14:45 A/C Thank you sir!
- Twr ADL 053 Abuja Tower
- A/C Go Ahead
- Twr Confirm destination is Jos?
- A/C Sokoto!
10:15:00 Twr Roger
10:21:08 A/C Abuja ADK 06, ADK 053 request taxi?
- Twr ADK 053 cleared taxi holding position runway 22
A/C Holding position runway 22 ADK 053
10:22:22 A/C Abuja ADK 06, ADK 053 wind check?
- Twr The wind 210/08 variable at 8KTS - A/C Roger
10:22:35 Twr Wind South-Westerly now at 15KTS
- A/C Copied
10:22:47 Twr ADK 053 cleared Abuja – Sokoto in the UV224 to climb
and maintain flight level 260
10:22:59 A/C Roger ADK 053 cleared Abuja/Sokoto as filed level 260,
104-6 and endurance of 3 hrs 40 minutes
- Twr Say again souls on board?
10:23:18 A/C 104-6
- Twr Copied report-ready
- A/C *Pilot clicked microphone twice to acknowledge*
10:24:10 Twr Wind Southerly at 35KTS This is an unsolicited wind Report, indicating Tower's concern
- A/C Roger Crew offered no comment
10:24:32 Twr TWD 2401 cleared taxi ruy 22 roger -
10:24:38 Twr And the wind is southerly at 28KTS This is the 2nd unsolicited wind report
- A/C Southerly okay
10:25:04 Twr Affirmative 28KTS And a 3rd unsolicited wind report, expressing concern
A/C Okay sir, we’ll call you in a minute sir
Twr That’s gusty wind sir! This is a direct warning of poten- tial danger
A/C Yes Sir
10:25:40 A/C Abuja ADK 053 is ready for take-off
Twr ADK 053 the wind is south westerly at 5KTS
10:25:48 A/C Southwesterly at 15KTS cleared take-off ADK 053 confirm Sir?
Twr Negative, confirmed you are ready for repature now? This request for confirmation is unsual and represents a further naming
10:25:58 A/C Immediate, Ready Immediate
10:26:03 Twr Rogers ADK 053 in position cleared take off runaway
22 departs right on course the wind is 210 at 15KTS
A/C Cleared take off ruly 22 departure hightrn wind copied ADK (053) A/C Tower VGN 042
10:27:04 Twr VGN 042 Go ahead
A/C Please do you have, can you kindly give us the wind speed and direction?
Twr Wind speed indicated in the towers southerly at 15KTS
A/C It looks more like 35KTS to me This is Virgin Nigeria's attempt to draw ADK crews attention to the dangerous nature of the wind
A/C That is the tower indication, 15KTS now reducing to 12KTS A/C Okay standby, we'll wait for an improvement in the weather This is Virgin Nigeria demon strating the proper judgement and airmanship 10:27:30 Twr Copied
10:27:40 Twr ADK 053 airborne at 1029 contact approach 119-8 These timings reflect a slight this crepancy between the operational
block and the time injection on he ATC voice re order
10:28:30 A/C on ground ADK 053 Abuja is calling you
Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower?
A/C on ground May be it is the weather
10:28:40 Twr He saw the weather before calling for take off
10:29:44 A/C on
ground I don’t think it is a big problem, maybe he is just battling with the turbulence
10:30:30 Twr ADK 053 Abuja tower
10:31:38 Twr ADK can you read Abuja
10:31:55 Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower, how do you read?
10:32:51 Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower, how do you read?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very chilling!
source: The Guardian (Lagos)
---------------------------------
Time Station Transmission Explanation Notes
10:14:30 A/C ABUJA ADK 053 request start-up -
- Twr ADK 053 roger UNH 1011, temperature 30 time 1015,
start-up approved
- A/C Start-up approved, could you say again the UNH and
temperature?
- Twr 1011,30
10:14:45 A/C Thank you sir!
- Twr ADL 053 Abuja Tower
- A/C Go Ahead
- Twr Confirm destination is Jos?
- A/C Sokoto!
10:15:00 Twr Roger
10:21:08 A/C Abuja ADK 06, ADK 053 request taxi?
- Twr ADK 053 cleared taxi holding position runway 22
A/C Holding position runway 22 ADK 053
10:22:22 A/C Abuja ADK 06, ADK 053 wind check?
- Twr The wind 210/08 variable at 8KTS - A/C Roger
10:22:35 Twr Wind South-Westerly now at 15KTS
- A/C Copied
10:22:47 Twr ADK 053 cleared Abuja – Sokoto in the UV224 to climb
and maintain flight level 260
10:22:59 A/C Roger ADK 053 cleared Abuja/Sokoto as filed level 260,
104-6 and endurance of 3 hrs 40 minutes
- Twr Say again souls on board?
10:23:18 A/C 104-6
- Twr Copied report-ready
- A/C *Pilot clicked microphone twice to acknowledge*
10:24:10 Twr Wind Southerly at 35KTS This is an unsolicited wind Report, indicating Tower's concern
- A/C Roger Crew offered no comment
10:24:32 Twr TWD 2401 cleared taxi ruy 22 roger -
10:24:38 Twr And the wind is southerly at 28KTS This is the 2nd unsolicited wind report
- A/C Southerly okay
10:25:04 Twr Affirmative 28KTS And a 3rd unsolicited wind report, expressing concern
A/C Okay sir, we’ll call you in a minute sir
Twr That’s gusty wind sir! This is a direct warning of poten- tial danger
A/C Yes Sir
10:25:40 A/C Abuja ADK 053 is ready for take-off
Twr ADK 053 the wind is south westerly at 5KTS
10:25:48 A/C Southwesterly at 15KTS cleared take-off ADK 053 confirm Sir?
Twr Negative, confirmed you are ready for repature now? This request for confirmation is unsual and represents a further naming
10:25:58 A/C Immediate, Ready Immediate
10:26:03 Twr Rogers ADK 053 in position cleared take off runaway
22 departs right on course the wind is 210 at 15KTS
A/C Cleared take off ruly 22 departure hightrn wind copied ADK (053) A/C Tower VGN 042
10:27:04 Twr VGN 042 Go ahead
A/C Please do you have, can you kindly give us the wind speed and direction?
Twr Wind speed indicated in the towers southerly at 15KTS
A/C It looks more like 35KTS to me This is Virgin Nigeria's attempt to draw ADK crews attention to the dangerous nature of the wind
A/C That is the tower indication, 15KTS now reducing to 12KTS A/C Okay standby, we'll wait for an improvement in the weather This is Virgin Nigeria demon strating the proper judgement and airmanship 10:27:30 Twr Copied
10:27:40 Twr ADK 053 airborne at 1029 contact approach 119-8 These timings reflect a slight this crepancy between the operational
block and the time injection on he ATC voice re order
10:28:30 A/C on ground ADK 053 Abuja is calling you
Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower?
A/C on ground May be it is the weather
10:28:40 Twr He saw the weather before calling for take off
10:29:44 A/C on
ground I don’t think it is a big problem, maybe he is just battling with the turbulence
10:30:30 Twr ADK 053 Abuja tower
10:31:38 Twr ADK can you read Abuja
10:31:55 Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower, how do you read?
10:32:51 Twr ADK 053 Abuja Tower, how do you read?
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Less i need an eye test i do see i take off clerance issued by ATC, with wind at 15knot and almost aligned as a head wind
and an acknowledgement by the crew.
But the contoller who affirmed the prsent winds in his take off clerance now turns around to ask for wind from another aircraft?
Help me guys boris, insisted that he was advised not to take off,and that all the latest gadgets were available and servicable in DNAA,i guess the windshear alert system was unservicable??????? hicup,hicup
and an acknowledgement by the crew.
But the contoller who affirmed the prsent winds in his take off clerance now turns around to ask for wind from another aircraft?
Help me guys boris, insisted that he was advised not to take off,and that all the latest gadgets were available and servicable in DNAA,i guess the windshear alert system was unservicable??????? hicup,hicup
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[U]
They may pay your daily bread,but if you know how much confusion arik pilots have on a day to day basis with ATC,and how much they get lost sometimes,you might change those comments.I suggest you tell thier managment to always keep a nigerian in the cockpit with them otherwise???????
Originally Posted by AVSEC;[/U
Arik keep the flag flying.When I have to pass through the Nigerian aviation grave yard its Arik,.
They may pay your daily bread,but if you know how much confusion arik pilots have on a day to day basis with ATC,and how much they get lost sometimes,you might change those comments.I suggest you tell thier managment to always keep a nigerian in the cockpit with them otherwise???????
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18L,
Well deduced. From all i have read here, there was more confusion than anything else!
If the control tower felt the weather was not safe from visual observations, they should have closed the aerodrome.
My suspicions lie with either that airplane or windshear, i may be wrong, but who has ever really recovered from windshear and come out to tell us for real that there was a laid down procedure to get out of it?
Though we are all taught a likely method to get out, it is my take that if it ever happens, its usually too fast and far too violent for any form of recovery; i stand to be corrected men???!!
Then again, like i said in the other thread (Another Plane Mishap), has anyone asked if that airplane complied with the Airworthiness Directives from Boeing?
Well deduced. From all i have read here, there was more confusion than anything else!
If the control tower felt the weather was not safe from visual observations, they should have closed the aerodrome.
My suspicions lie with either that airplane or windshear, i may be wrong, but who has ever really recovered from windshear and come out to tell us for real that there was a laid down procedure to get out of it?
Though we are all taught a likely method to get out, it is my take that if it ever happens, its usually too fast and far too violent for any form of recovery; i stand to be corrected men???!!
Then again, like i said in the other thread (Another Plane Mishap), has anyone asked if that airplane complied with the Airworthiness Directives from Boeing?
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Seemingly, the tower gave out wind checks at intervals, at ADC and VGN request, and winds were approx. 10-15 kts southerly. The tower DID however go further and give 3 unsolicited wind checks confirming the presence of gusty winds (35 kts same direction) and that was confirmed by Virgin Nigeria 733 crew. The tower explicitely gave out "warnings", and apparently, so did VK, to the ADK crew!
The atc transcript is open to interpretation, but the underlining fact is that it was up to the pilot to take off or not, AT HIS OWN RISK, and up to his judgement and experience. With all the VIP movements and "nigeria factor" I dont think it's fair to blame the tower either for not closing the airfield....In any case, just prior to 10:20AM local the winds were predictable and the conditions quite ripe for a safe takeoff.
There are some published survivor's accounts telling of "severe vibration" prior to the crash. We can only speculate that was a STALL caused by the windshear and a lack of attitude+speed compensation by ADK crew. The loud "bangs" are still inexplicable at this stage though....Blackboxes will be revealing...
The atc transcript is open to interpretation, but the underlining fact is that it was up to the pilot to take off or not, AT HIS OWN RISK, and up to his judgement and experience. With all the VIP movements and "nigeria factor" I dont think it's fair to blame the tower either for not closing the airfield....In any case, just prior to 10:20AM local the winds were predictable and the conditions quite ripe for a safe takeoff.
There are some published survivor's accounts telling of "severe vibration" prior to the crash. We can only speculate that was a STALL caused by the windshear and a lack of attitude+speed compensation by ADK crew. The loud "bangs" are still inexplicable at this stage though....Blackboxes will be revealing...
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Whether or not the storm in the vicinity of the airport proves to be the ultimate cause of the accident only the investigation will reveal... however... any pilot in the position of this crew having visual evidence of a storm close to the field and hearing widely varying wind pronouncements over a very short period should know that micro-bursts and resulting wind-shear are a very likely hazard to be found in the area. It's our job to know.
Taking off into those conditions in my book is a non-starter and any accident resulting from that departure could be said to have begun to happen even before the aircraft became airborne... if an accident did not result from the actions of the crew then it could also be said that it was blind luck that they got away with it.
Vibration... possibly approaching stall.... Loud bangs...probably compressor stall.
Taking off into those conditions in my book is a non-starter and any accident resulting from that departure could be said to have begun to happen even before the aircraft became airborne... if an accident did not result from the actions of the crew then it could also be said that it was blind luck that they got away with it.
Vibration... possibly approaching stall.... Loud bangs...probably compressor stall.
Avsec you never cease to amaze me with the pure unadulterated drivel that you post on here.
Just what has VK done to make you lump them in with the rest of the pack? In case you really are incapable of reading for yourself please get someone else to read you the parts of the tower transcript where the VK pilot correctly assesses the weather conditions as too dangerous and delays his departure. It is immaterial as to whether he is an expat or a Nigerian, he made the correct decision.
Your anti VK ravings display that you are as capable as Boris the Shady of making pronouncements whilst having no grasp of aviation. Arik doesn't have any track record for safety yet as they have only just started operating (or have they started?) yet your blind loyalty to your paymaster leads you to post biased rubbish worthy of some of Nigerias worst newspapers.
Please stop posting if you cannot make informed and unbiased comments.
Just what has VK done to make you lump them in with the rest of the pack? In case you really are incapable of reading for yourself please get someone else to read you the parts of the tower transcript where the VK pilot correctly assesses the weather conditions as too dangerous and delays his departure. It is immaterial as to whether he is an expat or a Nigerian, he made the correct decision.
Your anti VK ravings display that you are as capable as Boris the Shady of making pronouncements whilst having no grasp of aviation. Arik doesn't have any track record for safety yet as they have only just started operating (or have they started?) yet your blind loyalty to your paymaster leads you to post biased rubbish worthy of some of Nigerias worst newspapers.
Please stop posting if you cannot make informed and unbiased comments.
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Thunderstorm + Airplane = ????
Hey Rani & MungoP
I totally agree with you guys on the stall and possible compressor stall. I also know that as pilots, weather is a major factor when it comes to making decisions. I'm still not clear why the ADC crew decided to proceed with their departure despite seeing the horrible weather that was in the vicinity. What ever happened to Situational Awareness (SA)???? From the ATC transcript, there was a lot of chatter between the tower and other flight crew regarding the weather. I mean I just don't get it, is there something the public doesn't know? Because when it comes down to it, the decision to push the throttle lies with the PIC/Capt. Folks, thunderstorms and windshear just don't mix well with airplanes.
PS: I was reading somewhere that the CVR has not been recovered. Read that only the FDR was found. How true is that? And how come it was after Boris made his statement the CVR wasn't found?
I totally agree with you guys on the stall and possible compressor stall. I also know that as pilots, weather is a major factor when it comes to making decisions. I'm still not clear why the ADC crew decided to proceed with their departure despite seeing the horrible weather that was in the vicinity. What ever happened to Situational Awareness (SA)???? From the ATC transcript, there was a lot of chatter between the tower and other flight crew regarding the weather. I mean I just don't get it, is there something the public doesn't know? Because when it comes down to it, the decision to push the throttle lies with the PIC/Capt. Folks, thunderstorms and windshear just don't mix well with airplanes.
PS: I was reading somewhere that the CVR has not been recovered. Read that only the FDR was found. How true is that? And how come it was after Boris made his statement the CVR wasn't found?
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Sn,
Please be kind enough to ignore the man. If he is incapable of making informed comments, then he's incapable.
'You can force a donkey'; you all know the rest.
Back to the point, whats new?
Please be kind enough to ignore the man. If he is incapable of making informed comments, then he's incapable.
'You can force a donkey'; you all know the rest.
Back to the point, whats new?
Last edited by LongJohnThomas; 2nd Nov 2006 at 21:35.