Flying school ripping me off?
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Flying school ripping me off?
I am 19 years old and doing my commercial pilot license at a flying school at rand airport. As you people know it is extremely difficult, expensive and alot of hard work for someone of my age to be paying for this myself. 
. Anyway, i just need some advice on a issue here.
I am busy doing my night rating and I had a lesson booked for the afternoon. Unfortunately I was quite sick on that morning so I called the school just after 8am and cancelled the lesson for the afternoon. Now to my surprise when I went for the lesson a few days later I had to pay an extra R250-R300 (I don?t remember the exact amount) as a "No Show Fee" for when I cancelled the other day. I just feel that after having spent so much money at this school and I get charged for rubbish even though I have the good courtesy to call in early to cancel.
The worst part in this story is many times I have had to pay for 0.2 hours because after take off we realize something is wrong with the plane or the instruments are not working and so on. Many times I have paid for the taxi-ing of the aircraft to the refueling bay. A few times they had phoned me the same day to reschedule a lesson because the Instructor had to go somewhere or one of the planes...... and I had no problem with it despite it sometimes being an inconvenience to myself. A couple times after I completed my PPL I invited 3 friends to come up for a flight with a specific aircraft that I know can fly 4 people safely and when I get to the school I see my name is moved to another aircraft that can only lift 2 people or a third light person resulting in me having to do 2 trips!!! What about that? Did I ever complain, NO!
I can understand why they have this no show fee but the thing is I am a good student. I am always on time for lessons and so on. Now am I wrong or did I get ripped off for paying the No Show Fee despite having cancelled. I just need everyone's advice here because I am not sure?
. Anyway, i just need some advice on a issue here.I am busy doing my night rating and I had a lesson booked for the afternoon. Unfortunately I was quite sick on that morning so I called the school just after 8am and cancelled the lesson for the afternoon. Now to my surprise when I went for the lesson a few days later I had to pay an extra R250-R300 (I don?t remember the exact amount) as a "No Show Fee" for when I cancelled the other day. I just feel that after having spent so much money at this school and I get charged for rubbish even though I have the good courtesy to call in early to cancel.
The worst part in this story is many times I have had to pay for 0.2 hours because after take off we realize something is wrong with the plane or the instruments are not working and so on. Many times I have paid for the taxi-ing of the aircraft to the refueling bay. A few times they had phoned me the same day to reschedule a lesson because the Instructor had to go somewhere or one of the planes...... and I had no problem with it despite it sometimes being an inconvenience to myself. A couple times after I completed my PPL I invited 3 friends to come up for a flight with a specific aircraft that I know can fly 4 people safely and when I get to the school I see my name is moved to another aircraft that can only lift 2 people or a third light person resulting in me having to do 2 trips!!! What about that? Did I ever complain, NO!
I can understand why they have this no show fee but the thing is I am a good student. I am always on time for lessons and so on. Now am I wrong or did I get ripped off for paying the No Show Fee despite having cancelled. I just need everyone's advice here because I am not sure?
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I'd recommend you have a formal chat to the CFI/Admin manager about it. Let them know how you feel.
If they don't want to come to the party, then, as a parting shot, just cancel all your future bookings with them, and walk out with your training file (or a copy thereof).
There are plenty of good flying schools out there, who are more than willing to take your money. You are the client, they are there to serve you, not the other way around.
If they don't want to come to the party, then, as a parting shot, just cancel all your future bookings with them, and walk out with your training file (or a copy thereof).
There are plenty of good flying schools out there, who are more than willing to take your money. You are the client, they are there to serve you, not the other way around.
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Wow!
That's a bad school. I would never pay to refuel their aircraft. The tac. doesn't even spin over at that RPM so the fuel is next to nothing.
You need to show a greater authority with ops and as skyvan said, the CFI. I have never paid a cancellation fee either, and due to illness, have had to cancel the odd one for not just one school. I was, however, their policy to charge me a percentage, depending on when I cancelled. If you scratch their back and become flexable on occasions, they won't charge you.
As a CPL student, act like a commander, because you will be sooner that you think, but do it in a way that shows respect, tact etc...so you control the outcome. This skill will come over time, but it is one you will have to aquire. They wouldn't dare changing your a/c without ringing you at least, to ask if you minded. You must know all the facts, and laws etc...before getting too heavily involved though. The facts in this case is they don't have a good customer care policy and are getting as much as they can from you, so don't hold back in becoming a bit awkward if you need to.
Would I pay for a tec. flight?
Probably because it is good practice and vacume pumps do suffer from sheared drives and poor lubrication (for example) at any time.
Try going to Cape Town. I hear from a few guys on a JAA Conv. here that it's the best.
That's a bad school. I would never pay to refuel their aircraft. The tac. doesn't even spin over at that RPM so the fuel is next to nothing.
You need to show a greater authority with ops and as skyvan said, the CFI. I have never paid a cancellation fee either, and due to illness, have had to cancel the odd one for not just one school. I was, however, their policy to charge me a percentage, depending on when I cancelled. If you scratch their back and become flexable on occasions, they won't charge you.
As a CPL student, act like a commander, because you will be sooner that you think, but do it in a way that shows respect, tact etc...so you control the outcome. This skill will come over time, but it is one you will have to aquire. They wouldn't dare changing your a/c without ringing you at least, to ask if you minded. You must know all the facts, and laws etc...before getting too heavily involved though. The facts in this case is they don't have a good customer care policy and are getting as much as they can from you, so don't hold back in becoming a bit awkward if you need to.
Would I pay for a tec. flight?
Probably because it is good practice and vacume pumps do suffer from sheared drives and poor lubrication (for example) at any time.
Try going to Cape Town. I hear from a few guys on a JAA Conv. here that it's the best.
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certainly sounds like you are getting ripped off. put them straight, it is your money after all, and you are just letting them take it.
it is normal for a lot of schools to charge a cancellation fee, but not if you give them enough notice, which it sounds like you did. and being charged to refuel!!?? HA, bloody bastards. takes me back to my days. we were charged on hobbes time and easy way around that was to turn off the master after start. no i know i should never be telling up and coming pilots to do things like this and i'm NOT condoning BAD airmanship. but hey, i know how this guy feels and if they are going to screw you, screw them back. there are lots of ways!! if they want to be that pety and charge for the 0.1 hobbes time used to taxi, then i think they have more swerious problems than you not wanting to pay them!!
good luck and if they carry on their crap, just leave, then we'll see who is chasing who, trust me, they come running and do an immediate about face turn with regard to their attitude!!!
it is normal for a lot of schools to charge a cancellation fee, but not if you give them enough notice, which it sounds like you did. and being charged to refuel!!?? HA, bloody bastards. takes me back to my days. we were charged on hobbes time and easy way around that was to turn off the master after start. no i know i should never be telling up and coming pilots to do things like this and i'm NOT condoning BAD airmanship. but hey, i know how this guy feels and if they are going to screw you, screw them back. there are lots of ways!! if they want to be that pety and charge for the 0.1 hobbes time used to taxi, then i think they have more swerious problems than you not wanting to pay them!!
good luck and if they carry on their crap, just leave, then we'll see who is chasing who, trust me, they come running and do an immediate about face turn with regard to their attitude!!!
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Skyvan and Papi both sound most resaonable.. If the head of the company wont help, then move on. Just make sure you dont go to a School that wants upfront money. They seem to disappear. Take a look down at Vereeniging(wish I could pronounce that), its not that far away.
Another recomendation as a student is not to make big gaps in your training if at all possible. You go away for a couple weeks and then you have to step back a bit which costs you money..
Hang in there, Good Luck.
Another recomendation as a student is not to make big gaps in your training if at all possible. You go away for a couple weeks and then you have to step back a bit which costs you money..
Hang in there, Good Luck.
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pack up and move on
1 Paying for an aircraft that is tech is unacceptable however you are trying to build hours, though i don't see the advantage to your training paying for a u/s aircraft??
( i recently did a renewal on a Baron 55 that went tech just after take-off and due to traffic the whole flight took 0.5 hours, and i didn't pay a cent for it)
2 Paying a penalty for a no-show should only be done by a school in extreme circumstances to teach an undisciplined student a lesson (usually mummy and daddy throw a fit).
3 As a client you are paying for a service and if the instructor does not show it is hindering your progression. You are a Captain in training and as such need to learn to 'stand up' for yourself.
Although i trained at another school (that should and shall remain nameless!) the best place i have seen in years is APTRAC in P.E. I recently visited the school for interest sake and was exceptionally impressed with what they had to offer.
e.g. recently taken delivery of a 1900 sim used for advanced twin training and can be configured to 200 and Baron 58. The particular sim is rumoured to be less than half the price than a well known competitor in Lanseria, and in my opinion is a far better product.
The atmosphere appears to be positive and motivational, while the owner is an experienced airline captain not some 'two bit wanna-be', as many seem to be!
(and funnily enough i'm not working there, but have just seen enough crappy schools and dodgy operators for more than one lifetime!)
Good luck!
( i recently did a renewal on a Baron 55 that went tech just after take-off and due to traffic the whole flight took 0.5 hours, and i didn't pay a cent for it)
2 Paying a penalty for a no-show should only be done by a school in extreme circumstances to teach an undisciplined student a lesson (usually mummy and daddy throw a fit).
3 As a client you are paying for a service and if the instructor does not show it is hindering your progression. You are a Captain in training and as such need to learn to 'stand up' for yourself.
Although i trained at another school (that should and shall remain nameless!) the best place i have seen in years is APTRAC in P.E. I recently visited the school for interest sake and was exceptionally impressed with what they had to offer.
e.g. recently taken delivery of a 1900 sim used for advanced twin training and can be configured to 200 and Baron 58. The particular sim is rumoured to be less than half the price than a well known competitor in Lanseria, and in my opinion is a far better product.
The atmosphere appears to be positive and motivational, while the owner is an experienced airline captain not some 'two bit wanna-be', as many seem to be!
(and funnily enough i'm not working there, but have just seen enough crappy schools and dodgy operators for more than one lifetime!)
Good luck!
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Hobbes meters are usually connected to a pressure switch on the oil line in most ZS reg single engine aircraft so switching off the master with the engine running is merely bad airmanship and achieves no saving in metered time.
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i'm with the contract dog on this one, APTRAC are a good bunch. and sorry if you think i'm promoting bad airmanship SRT but i'm not. i was in a similar school and a lot of taxing was involved, that i was expected to pay for when moving the aerie around the apron. so i was shown a simple trick and it saved me a few bucks. i don't know enough about pressure switches and oil lines and frankly couldn't care less at this stage of my flying. but it worked for me, i was also an instructor and would NEVER condone a student doing this but he might just have got his couple hundred rand back from the bull
cancellation fee trick they try and pull.
anyway, the point of the thread was to help this youngster out, and that's all i was doing. buddy, if things don't come right where you are, don't hesitate to move on. you'll see later that it all builds into your experience. they need you more that you need them although it may not seem so and they certainly would never want you to think that.
cancellation fee trick they try and pull.anyway, the point of the thread was to help this youngster out, and that's all i was doing. buddy, if things don't come right where you are, don't hesitate to move on. you'll see later that it all builds into your experience. they need you more that you need them although it may not seem so and they certainly would never want you to think that.
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I am 19 years old and doing my commercial pilot license at a flying school at rand airport. As you people know it is extremely difficult, expensive and alot of hard work for someone of my age to be paying for this myself. . Anyway, i just need some advice on a issue here.
I am busy doing my night rating and I had a lesson booked for the afternoon. Unfortunately I was quite sick on that morning so I called the school just after 8am and cancelled the lesson for the afternoon. Now to my surprise when I went for the lesson a few days later I had to pay an extra R250-R300 (I don?t remember the exact amount) as a "No Show Fee" for when I cancelled the other day. I just feel that after having spent so much money at this school and I get charged for rubbish even though I have the good courtesy to call in early to cancel.
The worst part in this story is many times I have had to pay for 0.2 hours because after take off we realize something is wrong with the plane or the instruments are not working and so on. Many times I have paid for the taxi-ing of the aircraft to the refueling bay. A few times they had phoned me the same day to reschedule a lesson because the Instructor had to go somewhere or one of the planes...... and I had no problem with it despite it sometimes being an inconvenience to myself. A couple times after I completed my PPL I invited 3 friends to come up for a flight with a specific aircraft that I know can fly 4 people safely and when I get to the school I see my name is moved to another aircraft that can only lift 2 people or a third light person resulting in me having to do 2 trips!!! What about that? Did I ever complain, NO!
I can understand why they have this no show fee but the thing is I am a good student. I am always on time for lessons and so on. Now am I wrong or did I get ripped off for paying the No Show Fee despite having cancelled. I just need everyone's advice here because I am not sure?
. Anyway, i just need some advice on a issue here.I am busy doing my night rating and I had a lesson booked for the afternoon. Unfortunately I was quite sick on that morning so I called the school just after 8am and cancelled the lesson for the afternoon. Now to my surprise when I went for the lesson a few days later I had to pay an extra R250-R300 (I don?t remember the exact amount) as a "No Show Fee" for when I cancelled the other day. I just feel that after having spent so much money at this school and I get charged for rubbish even though I have the good courtesy to call in early to cancel.
The worst part in this story is many times I have had to pay for 0.2 hours because after take off we realize something is wrong with the plane or the instruments are not working and so on. Many times I have paid for the taxi-ing of the aircraft to the refueling bay. A few times they had phoned me the same day to reschedule a lesson because the Instructor had to go somewhere or one of the planes...... and I had no problem with it despite it sometimes being an inconvenience to myself. A couple times after I completed my PPL I invited 3 friends to come up for a flight with a specific aircraft that I know can fly 4 people safely and when I get to the school I see my name is moved to another aircraft that can only lift 2 people or a third light person resulting in me having to do 2 trips!!! What about that? Did I ever complain, NO!
I can understand why they have this no show fee but the thing is I am a good student. I am always on time for lessons and so on. Now am I wrong or did I get ripped off for paying the No Show Fee despite having cancelled. I just need everyone's advice here because I am not sure?
If they do, their reputation will precede them and thay will lose business.The owners of these schools don't seem to realise how it feels to spend a huge chunk of our hard-earned cash learning to fly. For many we are seen as cows waiting to be milked. If you land here from Europe then you are an even fatter cow.
If you called in sick then there is absolutely no basis for deducting any fees. If you had a hangover and couldn't get out of bed or turned up too late then that's a different story. That sort of behaviour must be discouraged.
Many schools and clubs set certain rules about aircraft positioning on the ground. Some say the a/c has to be refueled for the next pupil or taxied to the flightline and positioned into wind. This is all par for the course and you can't really complain. If it's always you 'paying' for the trip to the fuel bay because the others don't do it, then you need to speak up.
If there's a fault with the a/c and you discovered this after takeoff then you should never have to pay. See if the fault was snagged before. It's possible the AMO didn't do a good job. When you land, just go to the office or wherever you sign the a/c out and cross off your name. Do not enter the flight in any documents. Just snag it and leave the cross-charging of taxying and testing to the AMO. Everyone will understand.
Rescheduling is down to the instructors. If they've changed a booking then I would assume your instructor approved the change. If not then there is an organisational problem. How can a second instructor arbitrarily change your booking? On many occasions there is a reason you were assigned that particular a/c. OK so not all clubs have such rules. You can suggest they adopt one in that case. You won't be popular, but at least you'll be less inconvenienced. Decide which you want... If you didn't complain at the time then try to forget it. You shouldn't 'store' these for the next occasion. People don't accept this reasoning.
The fact that you always turn up (and on time) will certainly have been noticed. Aviation is a discipline and more attention is paid to your behaviour than you realise. Try to fit in, complain little, make helpful suggestions and it will turn out all right. Keep an eye on your school account. Watch what happens to your deposit too. If you bought five shirts, make sure you only paid for five. Keep on top of everything. In no time at all you will have a nice career and in no time this school will become a happy distant memory.
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Thanks for all the input everyone. Well I did not have a hangover! lol I had bad flu and they could hear cause when I phoned in my voice was half gone. 
Anyway I will post a reply to inform eveyone what the outcome is. Lets see. Maybe when i confront them they will be understanding about the whole thing.
Anyway I will post a reply to inform eveyone what the outcome is. Lets see. Maybe when i confront them they will be understanding about the whole thing.
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piper C,
Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I have to say that I did some flying 5 years ago at Wonderboom and was left less than impressed. I subsequently posted on this website about my concerns and received a mixed response - although I was actually only trying to get feedback. Eventually a forum moderator sent me a private message basically saying that you pay your money and you take your chance - "caveat emptor" - Latin for buyer beware. I pulled the thread. I lost money as I pulled out of that place, with little to show for it in the end.
I sympathise with you! It's very upsetting to be paying for something that you want to do and that you're passionate about and yet you get this horrible feeling that you're being cheated. Paying for refueling time of an aircraft is indeed a rip-off. I often found (still do) myself getting to an aircraft with a litre of fuel in each wing and trundling over to the fuel bay to fill up. I started to notice that I was the only one doing it as everyone else would simply benefit from my fuel. I try to put a stop to that by refusing to accept an aircraft unless it had sufficient fuel for the flight and I would offer to refuel to the amount I'd used at the end.
Your school, it seems, is trying it on! Don't pay for it. Taxiing around performing sundry duties on the tarmac is of no use to your log-book so you don't have to pay for it. Turn-backs for technical faults are arguable. They shouldn't happen at all, but they do, and I would say it's not a bad thing to have experienced one or two. When they keep occuring, though, there are likely problems that need addressing with the aircraft and the maintenance. I recall a Duchess that crashed with a lad flying and his instructor during inflight shutdowns (dangerous practice up around that density alt I thought?). Next week he gets airborne in a Cessna and seconds later he's back on terra firma except it's a public highway - obviously power-loss. The rudder flew off one whilst an Arrow had a total elec failure - at night - and belly flopped into some unattended airfield up north of Wonderboom. I had minor experiences by comparrison which included having my face shot blasted on finals by fragments of air-vent ducting and pulling the carb-heat control all the way out as it wasn't attached to anything!! This fleet was a pile of poop! My advice: if the fleet is unsafe don't fly - and it's a hard call to make when you're new to flying but trust your instincts - if it doesn't feel right don't fly! You're flying to enjoy it and enjoy it you should - don't feel awkward or bad or even scared. I found myself getting scared of the aircraft and before I realised the whole business of flying training was becoming an ordeal. You must avert this. Only fly if it's right for you on the day given variables; your health, aircraft health, weather and so on.
Cancellations cost money! No matter what your industry if your customers cancel it usually, but not always, has a cost on your company and we as pilots try to avoid them. Cancellations are however neccessary sometimes - ill health for example. Instructors should encourage you to assess your own suitability to fly given the prevailing circumstances and your decision should be commended. This is something that will be your trump card when you're flying for an airline as you'll be expected to make assessments of your crew as well!! Under no circumstances should your school charge you for a legitimate cancellation especially if you informed them of it in advance. Only in the case of persistent offenders should a penalty be considered. There are bullies in the flight training world and they don't stop at pressing young trainee pilots into paying for things that shouldn't have a charge.
Flights schools operate on a curve similar to the drag curve which is shaped like a bowl. When things are going well, their customers are all happy and their fleet is well maintained they are operating with minimum drag. When things start going wrong through inefficiency or bad luck they start moving backwards along the drag curve. Things start getting tougher as they try to get back to equilibrium, but with the "added drag" they find it hard and often impossible to get back. They may adopt some drastic measures including trying to charge for the unchargeable. Generally, the same problems which pushed them back in the first place are preventing them from moving forward! There they remain until they can either shape up or they drop off the curve altogether. A strange analogy you might think but I've seen some shockingly poor schools in all respects and the best place for them are the history books. I have no time for dodgy or unscrupulous schools -may they RIP!
With my bad experiences behind me I've since flown at various places in Europe and America and back in SA. My approach to these schools changed and I took more control over my budget, and flying, as a result. You still take a chance when you fly at a new place but always be prepared to review their performance as you would your own. Take a look at their facilities and their aircraft. Are they safe? Talk to other students; what do they say? What about the instructors? I always think you can tell a lot about a school by sitting and watching the instructors. Are they running around doing the funky chicken all the time? Are they rushed and pressured? Do they greet you with a warm smile or a vomitous scowl? Or, as I've seen, are they just as depressed as you may be if you stay there too long? Instructors often bear the brunt of poor efficiency and shoddy management so take a long hard look at them - there's a nice person in there deep down, I promise! Don't worry so much about staff turnover as it could be for a number of reasons and if a school has a good reputation it is bound to lose some staff to bigger and better organisations.
I know you don't get much in the way of luxury when you're training but you do get choice and you can choose another aircraft or another school. Don't be bullied and don't feel pressured to fly when you don't want to. When you're on top of the world wild horses won't stop you flying - when you're concerned or a little off colour you shouldn't and you're the expert on you so you make that call. As your experience grows then so will your confidence but never push it - it comes naturally. By virtue of the fact that you're prepared to fly in something most people refuse to go near you're well on your way so don't be rushed or pressured. Just enjoy!
I appreciate these comments don't entirely apply to your original thread but it might be read by people in similar predicaments. So, to whomever it may concern I hope all goes well.
df1
As an addendum, aim to discuss your learning objectives with the school, not only your instructor. I might seem unecessary but you need to hold them to your course plan and not just a CAA syllabus. I know three guys who fell foul of just doing it day by day with the instructor and got ripped off by a spiralling course cost which should have been fixed - in one case the school owner wasn't even sure what course the guy was on! Generally, many (but not all) pilots are not terribly business minded but if you treat your training as a business then go all out to scrutinise every erroneous or suspect fee you may avoid some heartache later on.
Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I have to say that I did some flying 5 years ago at Wonderboom and was left less than impressed. I subsequently posted on this website about my concerns and received a mixed response - although I was actually only trying to get feedback. Eventually a forum moderator sent me a private message basically saying that you pay your money and you take your chance - "caveat emptor" - Latin for buyer beware. I pulled the thread. I lost money as I pulled out of that place, with little to show for it in the end.
I sympathise with you! It's very upsetting to be paying for something that you want to do and that you're passionate about and yet you get this horrible feeling that you're being cheated. Paying for refueling time of an aircraft is indeed a rip-off. I often found (still do) myself getting to an aircraft with a litre of fuel in each wing and trundling over to the fuel bay to fill up. I started to notice that I was the only one doing it as everyone else would simply benefit from my fuel. I try to put a stop to that by refusing to accept an aircraft unless it had sufficient fuel for the flight and I would offer to refuel to the amount I'd used at the end.
Your school, it seems, is trying it on! Don't pay for it. Taxiing around performing sundry duties on the tarmac is of no use to your log-book so you don't have to pay for it. Turn-backs for technical faults are arguable. They shouldn't happen at all, but they do, and I would say it's not a bad thing to have experienced one or two. When they keep occuring, though, there are likely problems that need addressing with the aircraft and the maintenance. I recall a Duchess that crashed with a lad flying and his instructor during inflight shutdowns (dangerous practice up around that density alt I thought?). Next week he gets airborne in a Cessna and seconds later he's back on terra firma except it's a public highway - obviously power-loss. The rudder flew off one whilst an Arrow had a total elec failure - at night - and belly flopped into some unattended airfield up north of Wonderboom. I had minor experiences by comparrison which included having my face shot blasted on finals by fragments of air-vent ducting and pulling the carb-heat control all the way out as it wasn't attached to anything!! This fleet was a pile of poop! My advice: if the fleet is unsafe don't fly - and it's a hard call to make when you're new to flying but trust your instincts - if it doesn't feel right don't fly! You're flying to enjoy it and enjoy it you should - don't feel awkward or bad or even scared. I found myself getting scared of the aircraft and before I realised the whole business of flying training was becoming an ordeal. You must avert this. Only fly if it's right for you on the day given variables; your health, aircraft health, weather and so on.
Cancellations cost money! No matter what your industry if your customers cancel it usually, but not always, has a cost on your company and we as pilots try to avoid them. Cancellations are however neccessary sometimes - ill health for example. Instructors should encourage you to assess your own suitability to fly given the prevailing circumstances and your decision should be commended. This is something that will be your trump card when you're flying for an airline as you'll be expected to make assessments of your crew as well!! Under no circumstances should your school charge you for a legitimate cancellation especially if you informed them of it in advance. Only in the case of persistent offenders should a penalty be considered. There are bullies in the flight training world and they don't stop at pressing young trainee pilots into paying for things that shouldn't have a charge.
Flights schools operate on a curve similar to the drag curve which is shaped like a bowl. When things are going well, their customers are all happy and their fleet is well maintained they are operating with minimum drag. When things start going wrong through inefficiency or bad luck they start moving backwards along the drag curve. Things start getting tougher as they try to get back to equilibrium, but with the "added drag" they find it hard and often impossible to get back. They may adopt some drastic measures including trying to charge for the unchargeable. Generally, the same problems which pushed them back in the first place are preventing them from moving forward! There they remain until they can either shape up or they drop off the curve altogether. A strange analogy you might think but I've seen some shockingly poor schools in all respects and the best place for them are the history books. I have no time for dodgy or unscrupulous schools -may they RIP!
With my bad experiences behind me I've since flown at various places in Europe and America and back in SA. My approach to these schools changed and I took more control over my budget, and flying, as a result. You still take a chance when you fly at a new place but always be prepared to review their performance as you would your own. Take a look at their facilities and their aircraft. Are they safe? Talk to other students; what do they say? What about the instructors? I always think you can tell a lot about a school by sitting and watching the instructors. Are they running around doing the funky chicken all the time? Are they rushed and pressured? Do they greet you with a warm smile or a vomitous scowl? Or, as I've seen, are they just as depressed as you may be if you stay there too long? Instructors often bear the brunt of poor efficiency and shoddy management so take a long hard look at them - there's a nice person in there deep down, I promise! Don't worry so much about staff turnover as it could be for a number of reasons and if a school has a good reputation it is bound to lose some staff to bigger and better organisations.
I know you don't get much in the way of luxury when you're training but you do get choice and you can choose another aircraft or another school. Don't be bullied and don't feel pressured to fly when you don't want to. When you're on top of the world wild horses won't stop you flying - when you're concerned or a little off colour you shouldn't and you're the expert on you so you make that call. As your experience grows then so will your confidence but never push it - it comes naturally. By virtue of the fact that you're prepared to fly in something most people refuse to go near you're well on your way so don't be rushed or pressured. Just enjoy!
I appreciate these comments don't entirely apply to your original thread but it might be read by people in similar predicaments. So, to whomever it may concern I hope all goes well.
df1
As an addendum, aim to discuss your learning objectives with the school, not only your instructor. I might seem unecessary but you need to hold them to your course plan and not just a CAA syllabus. I know three guys who fell foul of just doing it day by day with the instructor and got ripped off by a spiralling course cost which should have been fixed - in one case the school owner wasn't even sure what course the guy was on! Generally, many (but not all) pilots are not terribly business minded but if you treat your training as a business then go all out to scrutinise every erroneous or suspect fee you may avoid some heartache later on.
Last edited by df1; 30th Sep 2006 at 07:47. Reason: additions
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Not all fields have bowsers and at some point all students will have to drop by the pumps to fill up, particularly if long sorties are being flown. Expecting the school to cover the trip to the pumps each time will only lead to increased costs passed on to the student. They're in it as a business.
Most aircraft owners have linked the Hobbes to the oil pressure line, thus if the engine is running, you're being charged. Turning off the master electrical switch is not only bad airmanship but won't gain you anything. Those aircraft with the Hobbes linked to the master will be turning over while the aircraft is being preflighted in any case so it's swings and roundabouts....
Best practice is if you're unhappy, move on....
Most aircraft owners have linked the Hobbes to the oil pressure line, thus if the engine is running, you're being charged. Turning off the master electrical switch is not only bad airmanship but won't gain you anything. Those aircraft with the Hobbes linked to the master will be turning over while the aircraft is being preflighted in any case so it's swings and roundabouts....
Best practice is if you're unhappy, move on....
