Chad rip-off threads combined
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Where the money is
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blown-Apart:
Even in defeat you have to throw in an insult for South Africans. At least by submission you acknowledge that what has been said is correct.
Now run along little one.
Even in defeat you have to throw in an insult for South Africans. At least by submission you acknowledge that what has been said is correct.
Now run along little one.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Chile
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would the T'chad govt enforce a South African court order? It may as well come from the new planet they have just discovered. Remember your white skin counts for zippo north of the Limpopo if it counts for anything south of it. 2hi2fly I take it from your rantings (based on jack sh@t with not one fact posted) that the name is indicative of your chemicaly enhanced state.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kinshasa
Age: 71
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Truth ???
I was in Ndjamena short time after the problem and this is what I heard on the main apron :
On August 4th 3 guys arrived in Chad with SA Court order to retrieve the a/c, 2 SA pilots, the owner’s representative, a “last minute” unknown copilot, and a french who is known to be fool. Local operator asked for Court Order to be delivered through legal channel and also a delay to defend his position. He obtained this delay and the problem seemed to be over.
Then local Police arrived, interrogated toughly SA pilots and locked up the french during 6 days. It is a collection of small mistakes which created a big misunderstanding :
Arrived in the middle of the night with ambulance Falcon 20
Without visas (bribed airport police to get the visas)
With a big nitrogen canister local believe to be secret weapon ! (was laying on the apron)
Turned round inside the airport until dawn with the French telling the story all around
Went to hangar and asked a/c to be pulled out as a first step
The french had been deported from Chad in April for problems with Justice.
They rose quickly Police’s attention.
If they had arrived (without this blacklisted french) on Air France with visas, gone calmly to the hotel and taken appointments, they would not have met any problems. Who knows ?
The other rumour is local operator has really been done for big monies on this deal. And he is quite a character not easy to hassle, very upset against the SA seller.
On August 4th 3 guys arrived in Chad with SA Court order to retrieve the a/c, 2 SA pilots, the owner’s representative, a “last minute” unknown copilot, and a french who is known to be fool. Local operator asked for Court Order to be delivered through legal channel and also a delay to defend his position. He obtained this delay and the problem seemed to be over.
Then local Police arrived, interrogated toughly SA pilots and locked up the french during 6 days. It is a collection of small mistakes which created a big misunderstanding :
Arrived in the middle of the night with ambulance Falcon 20
Without visas (bribed airport police to get the visas)
With a big nitrogen canister local believe to be secret weapon ! (was laying on the apron)
Turned round inside the airport until dawn with the French telling the story all around
Went to hangar and asked a/c to be pulled out as a first step
The french had been deported from Chad in April for problems with Justice.
They rose quickly Police’s attention.
If they had arrived (without this blacklisted french) on Air France with visas, gone calmly to the hotel and taken appointments, they would not have met any problems. Who knows ?
The other rumour is local operator has really been done for big monies on this deal. And he is quite a character not easy to hassle, very upset against the SA seller.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Where the money is
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By no means at all were the airport authorities bribed for visas. The normal process was followed. Had they been bribed (they were not) then the only person who could have supplied this information was the people who had been bribed. That would be nonsensical.
As for the French pilot that accompanied the 2 pilots, I cannot vouch for him or his prior behaviour in Chad. He only went along as his name was on the Court documentation, stating that he should be present on the ferry flight back to SA as he had previously worked for the Frenchman and flown the plane that should have been removed.
ICARE 68's info is fairly accurate, although I assume that he would have gotten the bit about "the local operator has been done in for big monies on this deal" directly from the Frenchman as it is in fact the Frenchman who stopped paying for the aircraft, as he had done with the previous BE20 for which he still owes money on 80hrs.
ICARE confirms that the Nitrogen bottle was left on the tarmac in front of the terminal building under guard of the security officials. In light of this, again it is clear that the plane could not have been flown out of N'Djamena as the right-side oilo was completely flat and the crew would have required this bottle to pump up the olio. Even if they had wanted to "steal the plane" in the middle of the night, they never had keys to unlock the doors. The Frenchman was in possession of these keys.
Only after the presentation of the Court documents, did the French pilot enquire with the authorities as to whether or not the plane could be moved to the main apron for inspection by the local CAA, who were to arrive in the morning to inspect the plane as well as the Court documentation. He asked for this in the morning, and not in the middle of the night. That was the intention of the enquiry, but obviously the plane could never have been moved without consent from the authorities as there were police and soldiers all over the airport.
The reason for not arriving on Air France with visas was that the minute the High Court order was received, the owner of the BE20 insisted that the crew be flown in immediately to retrieve his plane, for which payments had not been made by the Frenchman. It is standard ops that a visa might be applied for upon arrival at N'Djamena should the crew anticipate a stay that is longer than necessary. In fact, this is how previous crew have obtained their visas when arriving in Chad to work on contract for the Frenchman. He always arranged these visas on arrival.
They also tell me that they opted to stay at the airport overnight and slept in the VIP lounge instead of booking into a hotel. This decision was made as they wanted to remain under the watchful eye of airport security so that no-one could accuse them of doing anything untoward. They were nevertheless accused by the Frenchman of tampering with another aircraft that he leases. Another false accusation and part of the reason why they were arrested and interrogated.
Nevertheless, thanks for the imput.
As for the French pilot that accompanied the 2 pilots, I cannot vouch for him or his prior behaviour in Chad. He only went along as his name was on the Court documentation, stating that he should be present on the ferry flight back to SA as he had previously worked for the Frenchman and flown the plane that should have been removed.
ICARE 68's info is fairly accurate, although I assume that he would have gotten the bit about "the local operator has been done in for big monies on this deal" directly from the Frenchman as it is in fact the Frenchman who stopped paying for the aircraft, as he had done with the previous BE20 for which he still owes money on 80hrs.
ICARE confirms that the Nitrogen bottle was left on the tarmac in front of the terminal building under guard of the security officials. In light of this, again it is clear that the plane could not have been flown out of N'Djamena as the right-side oilo was completely flat and the crew would have required this bottle to pump up the olio. Even if they had wanted to "steal the plane" in the middle of the night, they never had keys to unlock the doors. The Frenchman was in possession of these keys.
Only after the presentation of the Court documents, did the French pilot enquire with the authorities as to whether or not the plane could be moved to the main apron for inspection by the local CAA, who were to arrive in the morning to inspect the plane as well as the Court documentation. He asked for this in the morning, and not in the middle of the night. That was the intention of the enquiry, but obviously the plane could never have been moved without consent from the authorities as there were police and soldiers all over the airport.
The reason for not arriving on Air France with visas was that the minute the High Court order was received, the owner of the BE20 insisted that the crew be flown in immediately to retrieve his plane, for which payments had not been made by the Frenchman. It is standard ops that a visa might be applied for upon arrival at N'Djamena should the crew anticipate a stay that is longer than necessary. In fact, this is how previous crew have obtained their visas when arriving in Chad to work on contract for the Frenchman. He always arranged these visas on arrival.
They also tell me that they opted to stay at the airport overnight and slept in the VIP lounge instead of booking into a hotel. This decision was made as they wanted to remain under the watchful eye of airport security so that no-one could accuse them of doing anything untoward. They were nevertheless accused by the Frenchman of tampering with another aircraft that he leases. Another false accusation and part of the reason why they were arrested and interrogated.
Nevertheless, thanks for the imput.
Last edited by 2high2fly; 18th Aug 2006 at 21:01.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Chile
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The situation created by the jolly old J+&n Sa^*r+ and his crooked dealings with Mr "T" led to all of the above fiasco of deeds and name calling. Who is deemed to have misbehaved after the fact is a matter of perception. I can guarantee that the problem wont be resolved quickly due to the distance between the two parties. We on this forum cannot resolve anything we can only take sides, strut our stuff and offend each other "ad nauseum" (albeit light heartedly ) .
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kinshasa
Age: 71
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May be… However I doubt Chadian authorities could have hassled and locked up 3 foreign pilots without any reasons, just for this french operator’s purposes. Very probably there was something wrong.
I spoke with the french operator’s pilot in Bangui 3 days ago. He said his boss stopped paying the lease just when the aircraft was grounded because of undercarriage problem. That is normal on a simple lease, you cannot lease a grounded aircraft.
The SA seller had changed the lease purchase contract in simple lease contract just before departure from Lanseria to Chad. The French understood this was pure theft but he accepted just to hold the counterpart of his monies.
Honestly, whatever may be the french operator’s reputation, I believe the SA seller tried to steal his money. He uses to do such things as far I understand
I spoke with the french operator’s pilot in Bangui 3 days ago. He said his boss stopped paying the lease just when the aircraft was grounded because of undercarriage problem. That is normal on a simple lease, you cannot lease a grounded aircraft.
The SA seller had changed the lease purchase contract in simple lease contract just before departure from Lanseria to Chad. The French understood this was pure theft but he accepted just to hold the counterpart of his monies.
Honestly, whatever may be the french operator’s reputation, I believe the SA seller tried to steal his money. He uses to do such things as far I understand
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'The frenchman' as he's referred to in these postings has come under a lot of flack... I've no idea how much of this is deserved ...no doubt there are people out there with what they consider genuine grievances..but for what it's worth, in the time I flew for him I was treated well.... paid in excess of the agreed salary, paid on time and received additional 'per-diem' not negotiated in the original terms of employment.
That's all I have to say and I promise anyone who might like to think otherwise, I'm not a close friend of the guy and he has no idea that this posting is being made... His current regular pilot will know this as a fact.
That's all I have to say and I promise anyone who might like to think otherwise, I'm not a close friend of the guy and he has no idea that this posting is being made... His current regular pilot will know this as a fact.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: world
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MungoP
paid in excess of the agreed salary, paid on time and received additional 'per-diem' not negotiated in the original terms of employment
I am looking for a sereious operator to work for . May I have his contact?
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
I am looking for a sereious operator to work for . May I have his contact?
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kinshasa
Age: 71
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to these accurate informations there’s just one guy insulting constantly the “frenchman”, using various names. He was SA co-pilot of this cowboys outfit in Ndjamena, but also only one who was not aware of target, retrieve an aircraft by surprise in the framework of major conflict between 2 big sharks. As he was unemployed and also promised a good reward, he rushed into the trap – should have wondered that SA seller was not coming with them ! – Then at destination, no reward, just bad time with Chadian Police ! And now since return back home, SA seller has just been ignoring him. Well, I can understand he is very frustrated but next time he’d better try not to be involved in such a brawl !
