WHAT'S UP WITH NAC?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Sybersakke
As much as I hate employers in aviation who take advantage of pilots because they know "there are hundreds of them out there looking for a job" I must say one thing about NAC. I flew for them on contracts for just over a year around 2003, and I have never been treated better - and I have worked for a few in the 12 odd years that I have been flying. If it was'nt for the fact that contract flying is contract flying, I would have possibly still been flying for them.
Lets face it " no one is perfect". Just read all the whinging on PPRUNE and you will find you can name an aviation company and someone there will have something to moan about.
Lets face it " no one is perfect". Just read all the whinging on PPRUNE and you will find you can name an aviation company and someone there will have something to moan about.
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On this issue ....of a Company not looking after you ....Yea right... loyal Contract Pilots !!!.....HA ha ha..... "show me the money is the slogan boys.....right ! @ so dont give us "this company must look after us " when we are just contactors..count your blessing you have a job .....one of these days the Bosses are going to import "cheap' labour...like the rest of the industies that battle with unions...expensive and lazy labour.Catch a wake up and count your blessings right.And dont think that they are not available I have worked with Chinese Pilots that would fly rings around most of us and work for a pittance.They are good...believe me ...hard working...sharp and not LAZY and most important dont sit around complianing and moaning about everything,no boys they are in the books and in the classrooms slogging away.More Chinese Pilots are getting training right now then their are Pilots in RSA so beware it is a matter of time they wash up on the African Contract shore's.......
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Oh and on the NAC issue .....maybe the heat in the 'Simulator Cockpit' got to much for these complainers about NAC.Only company that do proper training and have the equpiment to do it............
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Steel hawk you sound like one the employers.
I too have dealt with Chinese pilots. I suppose that we are all welcome to our own opinions, mine is that they are not up to scratch proffesionally. Why do Cathay Pacific and Dragon air hire so many expat pilots when all of these Chinese pilots are sitting on there doorstep? Maybe employers, who would like to take this options, ideally want someone who doesn't know how to think for themselves, or question authority. But you get what you pay for! And if some South African companies want to compromise safety for 'a cheaper pilot' well thats up too them. Frankly i wouldn't be suprised if certain SA companies tried it!!!
Speaking of wich, what is so wrong about complaining. My fellow pilots, if something is not up to scratch COMPLAIN. It is your god given right. For far too long we South Africans have been told to sit down, shut up and take it. The most critical nations in the world are also the most forward. South Africa, and China ( yes i have been there, Steelhawk ) are about 10 - 20 years behind Europe and the US in everything. Hence them being 1st world and us being 3rd world. And look how they complain when there working conditions are crap, or there salaries aren't competitive.
Steelhawk, if nobody ever criticised anything how can we improve on ourselves!?!
I tell you what, if certain SA companies want to employ a bunch of foriegn pilots who can't think, or stand up for themselves. Then these companies can relocate to these to those countries. They'll probally fit in better there, with there questionable scupples!!!
Oh, and when you said "aren't lazy" did you mean willing to work over crew and duty???
I too have dealt with Chinese pilots. I suppose that we are all welcome to our own opinions, mine is that they are not up to scratch proffesionally. Why do Cathay Pacific and Dragon air hire so many expat pilots when all of these Chinese pilots are sitting on there doorstep? Maybe employers, who would like to take this options, ideally want someone who doesn't know how to think for themselves, or question authority. But you get what you pay for! And if some South African companies want to compromise safety for 'a cheaper pilot' well thats up too them. Frankly i wouldn't be suprised if certain SA companies tried it!!!
Speaking of wich, what is so wrong about complaining. My fellow pilots, if something is not up to scratch COMPLAIN. It is your god given right. For far too long we South Africans have been told to sit down, shut up and take it. The most critical nations in the world are also the most forward. South Africa, and China ( yes i have been there, Steelhawk ) are about 10 - 20 years behind Europe and the US in everything. Hence them being 1st world and us being 3rd world. And look how they complain when there working conditions are crap, or there salaries aren't competitive.
Steelhawk, if nobody ever criticised anything how can we improve on ourselves!?!
I tell you what, if certain SA companies want to employ a bunch of foriegn pilots who can't think, or stand up for themselves. Then these companies can relocate to these to those countries. They'll probally fit in better there, with there questionable scupples!!!
Oh, and when you said "aren't lazy" did you mean willing to work over crew and duty???
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/26/news/pilots.php
I don't think Chinese pilots are going to be rushing to Africa soon.
I don't think Chinese pilots are going to be rushing to Africa soon.
Idiot
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nice one toast
Steelhawk, remember China is a country trying to catch up with 1st world. And doing an impressive job i might say. But guess what, as the country advances, so do the people. Japan was where China was 50 years ago and now look at them. There pilots now earn good salaries and have excellant working conditions. The point i'm trying to make is that these cheap, non complaining chinese pilots of yours won't be around for very long!!! They will soon learn that you are trying taking advantage of them.
Steelhawk, remember China is a country trying to catch up with 1st world. And doing an impressive job i might say. But guess what, as the country advances, so do the people. Japan was where China was 50 years ago and now look at them. There pilots now earn good salaries and have excellant working conditions. The point i'm trying to make is that these cheap, non complaining chinese pilots of yours won't be around for very long!!! They will soon learn that you are trying taking advantage of them.
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Smells like.. Have to agree, but one must remember they provide a living to the young ones of today. NAC has been a great company and not for those sitting in the office many miles away but for the guy's and girl's hard at work in there out stations. They are the ones pulling thumbs and making it work and keeping the clients happy, and I will probably say it goes for most of the contractors out there.
Problem today is they are staring at individual trees and not the whole forest and sadly that has broken down the delicate balance that lives in a contract company
I have no doubt NAC will pull itself out this hole it's dug and rise up again but not until there is a re-think at managment level and attitudes changed.
As to the training Steel.. I have to dissagree, a pilot must know how to fly to pass a interview or get his CV in the door, the training at NAC is all about procedures and sad to say the instructors there are spending more time teaching people to fly an ILs than the SOP'S they are supposed to following, for as a past Cap of contract flying there is nothing more disturbing than teaching basic SOP'S to fellow aviatiors in some of the most difficult flying conditions in the world, it's not always the most safe enviroment..
Just my few humble words..........
P.S forgive the spelling if any , suffering from a heavy one
Problem today is they are staring at individual trees and not the whole forest and sadly that has broken down the delicate balance that lives in a contract company
I have no doubt NAC will pull itself out this hole it's dug and rise up again but not until there is a re-think at managment level and attitudes changed.
As to the training Steel.. I have to dissagree, a pilot must know how to fly to pass a interview or get his CV in the door, the training at NAC is all about procedures and sad to say the instructors there are spending more time teaching people to fly an ILs than the SOP'S they are supposed to following, for as a past Cap of contract flying there is nothing more disturbing than teaching basic SOP'S to fellow aviatiors in some of the most difficult flying conditions in the world, it's not always the most safe enviroment..
Just my few humble words..........
P.S forgive the spelling if any , suffering from a heavy one
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steelhawk or steelwalker
walker thaz what u gonna need to walk with after forced to play in the traffic.....
u have the mind set of ELPRICK the DICKtator, but maybe it is you after all
. only someone with your upbringing and attitude would say what you have said in your reply. CHINESE are out of the equation, they cant even fill their own aviation slots, we WESTERN people have to do it for them, but hey maybe it aint such a bad IDEA for you to go and work over there, they will appreciate your attitude and you fit their criteria like a glove, so do all of us real aviatiors a favour and leave, without you contracts would be what it used to be.
u have the mind set of ELPRICK the DICKtator, but maybe it is you after all
. only someone with your upbringing and attitude would say what you have said in your reply. CHINESE are out of the equation, they cant even fill their own aviation slots, we WESTERN people have to do it for them, but hey maybe it aint such a bad IDEA for you to go and work over there, they will appreciate your attitude and you fit their criteria like a glove, so do all of us real aviatiors a favour and leave, without you contracts would be what it used to be.
Not another nobby
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OK guys it may be a long time ago, but I did my CPL, IR Grade III & Grade II with NAC at Lanseria. Worked as both Instructor and Charter Pilot with NAC and never had any complaints, really enjoyed working for NAC and believe I got a lot out of them in terms of experience. Maybe things have changed, but for a long time they were a quality company to work for. Maybe not the best payers, but then pay is not everything. Certainly one of my more satisfying employment experiences and look back with good memories; airies were always tip-top even if they were old they still felt like new especially the trusty Be58’s. I still have my NAC tie, Wings and Coy epaulettes and wouldn’t give them away to anyone.
Maybe that is history, but if I ever needed to go back to Africa NAC would still be my first port of call.
Maybe that is history, but if I ever needed to go back to Africa NAC would still be my first port of call.
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Thats what everyone is saying porridge. It's the point of this thread. NAC was a tip top company to work for, they always looked after you, the aircraft was always in top condition, pilots were happy. Lately, however, they have lost there shine. Pilot's are complaining about maintenance issues. They feel like they aren't treated the way they used to be... etc. You get the picture.
Mattman i agree with what you said. NAC will pull themselves backup, but not before management look more closely at themselves to see how they got here in the first place.
Mattman i agree with what you said. NAC will pull themselves backup, but not before management look more closely at themselves to see how they got here in the first place.
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Last Note
One last note for you Steelhawk.
According to airdisaster.com China Airlines has the highest accident rate compared to other major airlines in Asia. Check it out.
According to airdisaster.com China Airlines has the highest accident rate compared to other major airlines in Asia. Check it out.
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By the way----- there,s a rumor going around that the bank wants to sell N.A.C and also Raytheon have been talking to other companies at FALA regarding the taking over the dealership as they (Raytheon) are very unhappy with N.A.C .I cant see that happenning.
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Originally Posted by mattman
Smells like.. Have to agree, but one must remember they provide a living to the young ones of today.
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[QUOTE] Many of the contracts require 3000, 4000 plus TT for captains and significant twin and turbine time. The type of pilot that meets these requirements, and havent buggered off to the airlines yet are typically not youngsters and are in it for the long haul.
I got to disagree, we're not all in it for the long haul, some of us are just waiting for our opportunity to get into an airline ... and it's not easy! It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. So, yes, some of us are stuck for the time being but it will change.
We are on the upward side of the sine curve presently! Because of the shortage of crew we now can 'dictate' (for lack of a better word) what we want to get paid and make it a sweeter deal.... it wasn't always like this and it will eventually change to suit the operator....negative side of the curve if you wish.
So if you don't like it and you do have a bit of experience, look elsewhere and i'm sure you should find something better. It's what you make of it ultimately!
Anyways, that's my 2 cents worth! I'm off for a drink.
Safe flying
I got to disagree, we're not all in it for the long haul, some of us are just waiting for our opportunity to get into an airline ... and it's not easy! It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. So, yes, some of us are stuck for the time being but it will change.
We are on the upward side of the sine curve presently! Because of the shortage of crew we now can 'dictate' (for lack of a better word) what we want to get paid and make it a sweeter deal.... it wasn't always like this and it will eventually change to suit the operator....negative side of the curve if you wish.
So if you don't like it and you do have a bit of experience, look elsewhere and i'm sure you should find something better. It's what you make of it ultimately!
Anyways, that's my 2 cents worth! I'm off for a drink.
Safe flying
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Sorry Dude did not mean to offend, sadly I was one of those with 4000+ sitting on contracts
but I still like to think of myself as a young one
Work hard play hard and we might get lucky
Will give credit were it is due though NAC helped a lot of low timers into the market, hey you had to do your time in the office , but next thing they knew they were driving 1900's and 200's credit to ole Uncle Ray for that one .
I hope some of the top bosses open there eye's and see whats happening and give the guy's a chance to get it up to top notch again before they start to shut things down, there's still plenty of flying to be done...
but I still like to think of myself as a young one Work hard play hard and we might get lucky
Will give credit were it is due though NAC helped a lot of low timers into the market, hey you had to do your time in the office
, but next thing they knew they were driving 1900's and 200's credit to ole Uncle Ray for that one . I hope some of the top bosses open there eye's and see whats happening and give the guy's a chance to get it up to top notch again before they start to shut things down, there's still plenty of flying to be done...
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My 2 Cents
i think NAC is a good company at the end of the day compared to some of the other operators. All these contract companies have their own problems, some larger than others, but at the end of the day, there are companies that pilots would prefer to fly for or not to fly for. I think NAC really does nees to look at more competative salaries as i have heard some of the co-jo's are earning peanuts and the captains are also grossly underpaid for the responisiblities and hours they hold.
perhaps there is still hope for them, however i think some serious changes need to be made to management.
JBG
perhaps there is still hope for them, however i think some serious changes need to be made to management.
JBG