Declaring an emergency!
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Declaring an emergency!
Can anyone tell me what declaring an emergency actually entails as far as ATC are concerned. How does this differ from requesting priority landing?
For example, a while back we had a passenger that took a turn for the worst in flight, during the descent. It seemed appropriate to request priority landing asap in order to get them medical attention. Declaring an emergency in this reqard surely was not appropriate.
What sort of non-normal procedures would require declaring an emergency pertaining to airline operations? Any ATC's out there that can shed light on this? What happens when an emergency is declared? Are all aircraft obviously cleared out of your way? If so, knowing what this actually entails might make one make a more informed decision should an emergency arise.
For example, a while back we had a passenger that took a turn for the worst in flight, during the descent. It seemed appropriate to request priority landing asap in order to get them medical attention. Declaring an emergency in this reqard surely was not appropriate.
What sort of non-normal procedures would require declaring an emergency pertaining to airline operations? Any ATC's out there that can shed light on this? What happens when an emergency is declared? Are all aircraft obviously cleared out of your way? If so, knowing what this actually entails might make one make a more informed decision should an emergency arise.
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Stick to standard phraseology.
Either use PAN PAN PAN or MAYDAY MAYDAY.
The decision is yours in terms of whether it's an urgent or distress situation.
How important is the life of your passenger?! Remember that most pilots and hosties don't have a medical backround, although cabin crew would probably know more than pilots, depending on their training.
In most "civilised" parts of the world, using terms such as request priority or we are low on fuel will not have the desired effect for the pilot concerned.
Remember that you can always downgrade or upgrade your call from an urgency to a distress call and vice versa.
Safe flying!
Either use PAN PAN PAN or MAYDAY MAYDAY.
The decision is yours in terms of whether it's an urgent or distress situation.
How important is the life of your passenger?! Remember that most pilots and hosties don't have a medical backround, although cabin crew would probably know more than pilots, depending on their training.
In most "civilised" parts of the world, using terms such as request priority or we are low on fuel will not have the desired effect for the pilot concerned.
Remember that you can always downgrade or upgrade your call from an urgency to a distress call and vice versa.
Safe flying!
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Personally, I think the standard phraseologies or "PAN PAN PAN" and "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" sound rather stupid. Presumably they were first introduced in the days of HF transmission when comms were (are are still at times) bad.
Lufthansa did an audit a few years ago on SAA, and apparently they want them to say "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" when an engine failure or fire occurs! If the safety of the aircraft is not in immediate danger ie. situation under control, isn't this a slight overkill, especially with VHF comms that are crystal clear? It's another story if you are burning and the fire won't go out.
Lufthansa did an audit a few years ago on SAA, and apparently they want them to say "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" when an engine failure or fire occurs! If the safety of the aircraft is not in immediate danger ie. situation under control, isn't this a slight overkill, especially with VHF comms that are crystal clear? It's another story if you are burning and the fire won't go out.
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declaring an emergency
what should be understood about the origins of the " WORDS " that are used MAYDAY and PAN -------These come from the french words
" M' AIDEZ " and EN PANNE or " PANNE " Pronounced mayday and
pan. To a Frenchman ,there is no misunderstanding
MAYDAY means Assist me ," help" " urgently"
PAN means broken or problem , eg one engine out
Knowing the above, all is revealed .
The French certainly dont think that these are stupid words
" M' AIDEZ " and EN PANNE or " PANNE " Pronounced mayday and
pan. To a Frenchman ,there is no misunderstanding
MAYDAY means Assist me ," help" " urgently"
PAN means broken or problem , eg one engine out
Knowing the above, all is revealed .
The French certainly dont think that these are stupid words
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Stick to the publishe procedures!!!!
Use PAN and MAYDAY - they are there for a reason and do work.
You will be utterly amazed at the amount of requests we receive for priority landings and some of the even more utterly unbelieveable reasons for requesting them, such as:
Because we left late and need to land in time to catch XXXX flight back to base, otherwise we have to wait 2 hours for another fkight.
I am the instructor and I have to do another flight in another a/c with another student
We have a problem with crew and duty time (If it was a problem, why did you commence the flight?)
So you see, when is a priority landing a priority - when u have an abnormal situation and you use the CORRECT ICAO phraseology to inform ATC. It also alerts other a/c to your predicament and should hopefully keep them quiet whilst ATC addresses you and your problem.
Don't beat about the bush - tell us what the problem is using the correct phrases and we can help you ASAP.
Use PAN and MAYDAY - they are there for a reason and do work.
You will be utterly amazed at the amount of requests we receive for priority landings and some of the even more utterly unbelieveable reasons for requesting them, such as:
Because we left late and need to land in time to catch XXXX flight back to base, otherwise we have to wait 2 hours for another fkight.
I am the instructor and I have to do another flight in another a/c with another student
We have a problem with crew and duty time (If it was a problem, why did you commence the flight?)
So you see, when is a priority landing a priority - when u have an abnormal situation and you use the CORRECT ICAO phraseology to inform ATC. It also alerts other a/c to your predicament and should hopefully keep them quiet whilst ATC addresses you and your problem.
Don't beat about the bush - tell us what the problem is using the correct phrases and we can help you ASAP.
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Goldfish, thanks for your insight. Are you saying that should a passenger fall ill, we then need to go through the drills of "PAN PAN PAN" or "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" and declare an emergency as well?
No one has answered the question yet that I posed. I still would like to know from the airport side of things what happens when an emergency is declared. In the scenario scetched here, an army of fire engines chasing the aircraft after it has landed is way overkill, and only scares the other pax.
No one has answered the question yet that I posed. I still would like to know from the airport side of things what happens when an emergency is declared. In the scenario scetched here, an army of fire engines chasing the aircraft after it has landed is way overkill, and only scares the other pax.
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As previously stated Emergencies can be upgraded and down graded. If I were to loose an engine I would declare a Mayday till the situation is either under control or not. If it is under control you just downgrad to Pan Pan.
If someone is low on fuel and does not declare an emergency then as far as I'm concerened he is not in a desprate situation, he's just starting to sweat a little.
But you better have an emergency when you declare a Mayday because I'm sure that there are plenty of pilots out there like me who take a very dim view of the misuse of the term in order for someone to get on the ground faster so they can get off to their dinner date.
But what may be an emergency to one pilot may not be to another, it's all relevent on experience. I regard engine out and fires as being an emergency warranting a Mayday call, at least until everything is back under control. What if you lost an engine and could not maintain, or you had a fire you could not control, at least now everyone knows you are in trouble and if you are unable to make further comm's your situation is clear to everyone.
As regards to the mention of a sick passenger or ill one. If the passengers condition is life threatening then I would call for a Mayday, priority landing and medical staff on standby on ground. If the passenger is just suffering from a problem of equalizing his or her ear drums then I would not even bother to call, except in the case of un-preasurized aircraft where you might need to request a slow descent with somewhere to circle whilst you do it, notifying atc of you predicament and cause of delay to your expected approach. It's true most of us are not medicaly trained, but with or without training it's in the pilots judgment to evaluate the situation. If you think the passenger needs immediate medical aid, declare an emergency, if immediate aid will make no diffrence then inform atc that you will need some assistance on ground but your situation does not warrantan emergency.
At the end of the day it's up to the pilot to decide, decalring an emergency requires a lot of extra paper work, so those who abuse the system will get caught. But you should never be afraid to declare an emergency. You can always be sorry for over reaction, but if something happened and you did not declare an emergency, then you will be forever held accountable for your inaction.
And any bugger who abbuses the system will get a swift kick up his backside
If someone is low on fuel and does not declare an emergency then as far as I'm concerened he is not in a desprate situation, he's just starting to sweat a little.
But you better have an emergency when you declare a Mayday because I'm sure that there are plenty of pilots out there like me who take a very dim view of the misuse of the term in order for someone to get on the ground faster so they can get off to their dinner date.
But what may be an emergency to one pilot may not be to another, it's all relevent on experience. I regard engine out and fires as being an emergency warranting a Mayday call, at least until everything is back under control. What if you lost an engine and could not maintain, or you had a fire you could not control, at least now everyone knows you are in trouble and if you are unable to make further comm's your situation is clear to everyone.
As regards to the mention of a sick passenger or ill one. If the passengers condition is life threatening then I would call for a Mayday, priority landing and medical staff on standby on ground. If the passenger is just suffering from a problem of equalizing his or her ear drums then I would not even bother to call, except in the case of un-preasurized aircraft where you might need to request a slow descent with somewhere to circle whilst you do it, notifying atc of you predicament and cause of delay to your expected approach. It's true most of us are not medicaly trained, but with or without training it's in the pilots judgment to evaluate the situation. If you think the passenger needs immediate medical aid, declare an emergency, if immediate aid will make no diffrence then inform atc that you will need some assistance on ground but your situation does not warrantan emergency.
At the end of the day it's up to the pilot to decide, decalring an emergency requires a lot of extra paper work, so those who abuse the system will get caught. But you should never be afraid to declare an emergency. You can always be sorry for over reaction, but if something happened and you did not declare an emergency, then you will be forever held accountable for your inaction.
And any bugger who abbuses the system will get a swift kick up his backside
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FOGyro- yes you should declare the phase if the illness warrants help immediately upon arrival. After all how do we know HOW ILL the passenger is - I had a upset stomach yesterday - I was thus not healthy = I was ill, but could get through the day without any help, but if you have heart pains it could be serious - thus declare the phase and we will ensure you arrive speedily and without delay. A passenger with an upset stomach might be ill but does not neceesarily need priority handling and immediate help upon landing.
As to what happens on the ground - TELL US EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG - the secret to being properly preared is PROPER COMMUNICATIONS. Once you have told us what is wrong we alert ACSA and if they are not panicing, they will hopefully have everything under control when u arrive.
Same as an a/c emergency - that is why the emergency vehicles are on stand-by - better to be forewarned and ready for you and then deal with anything should it happen when you land, than only then get ready and leave the fire-station. That 90 secs (wasted) could mean the difference between life and death.
It NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE me, in 25 years of controlling, how AFRAID pilots are to tell ATC what is wrong. They use amazing codes and foreign and ex-SAAF terms to tell us what is wrong. U then have to spend several minutes and waste many transmissions to try and decode this
that the pilots are saying to find out what is wrong. Why is there such a "afraidness" (cant think of any other english word!!!!) to tell us EXACTLY what is wrong and declare the appropriate phase. After all u have a problem - communicate it to us CORRECTLY. Sooner or later everyone else is going to hear bout it. Those wasted transmissions waste time which could also mean the difference between life and death
I have to FULLY AGREE with Lufthansa - why are pilots so scared to tell us about their problems. And I am (not) sorry to say this but SAA is the biggest culprit in this respect.
Soap Box Cowboy speaks the greatest sense I have ever seen on PPRUNE. He is so correct - He must be a pleasure to fly with. From ATC there is not a lot of paperwork, really, but at least I know there is one pilot who reads PPRUNE and wont be afraid to speak English and communicate correctly with ATC. And as he says abuse the system and you will be caught out.
As to what happens on the ground - TELL US EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG - the secret to being properly preared is PROPER COMMUNICATIONS. Once you have told us what is wrong we alert ACSA and if they are not panicing, they will hopefully have everything under control when u arrive.
Same as an a/c emergency - that is why the emergency vehicles are on stand-by - better to be forewarned and ready for you and then deal with anything should it happen when you land, than only then get ready and leave the fire-station. That 90 secs (wasted) could mean the difference between life and death.
It NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE me, in 25 years of controlling, how AFRAID pilots are to tell ATC what is wrong. They use amazing codes and foreign and ex-SAAF terms to tell us what is wrong. U then have to spend several minutes and waste many transmissions to try and decode this
that the pilots are saying to find out what is wrong. Why is there such a "afraidness" (cant think of any other english word!!!!) to tell us EXACTLY what is wrong and declare the appropriate phase. After all u have a problem - communicate it to us CORRECTLY. Sooner or later everyone else is going to hear bout it. Those wasted transmissions waste time which could also mean the difference between life and deathI have to FULLY AGREE with Lufthansa - why are pilots so scared to tell us about their problems. And I am (not) sorry to say this but SAA is the biggest culprit in this respect.
Soap Box Cowboy speaks the greatest sense I have ever seen on PPRUNE. He is so correct - He must be a pleasure to fly with. From ATC there is not a lot of paperwork, really, but at least I know there is one pilot who reads PPRUNE and wont be afraid to speak English and communicate correctly with ATC. And as he says abuse the system and you will be caught out.
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Quite right indeed... Mayday and Pan Pan are standard phraseology and who cares if they sound stupid... 
In 3 words, ATC knows you are in trouble and will give you instant priority.
Also to be considered: VHF comms may be crystal-clear, but foreign pilots' accents or practice of English may not always be... Mayday is simple enough to pronounce and understand.
In many companies, the ops manual specifies cases (non exhaustive) when a Mayday must be called, e.g. fuel down to final reserve or unconscious pax for undetermined reasons. In the latter case, if you have time later on to inform ATC about the nature of the emergency, you will not get that "army of fire engines chasing the aircraft after it has landed"
but instead an ambulance waiting for your ill passenger upon arrival, which is always nice... 
In 3 words, ATC knows you are in trouble and will give you instant priority.Also to be considered: VHF comms may be crystal-clear, but foreign pilots' accents or practice of English may not always be... Mayday is simple enough to pronounce and understand.
In many companies, the ops manual specifies cases (non exhaustive) when a Mayday must be called, e.g. fuel down to final reserve or unconscious pax for undetermined reasons. In the latter case, if you have time later on to inform ATC about the nature of the emergency, you will not get that "army of fire engines chasing the aircraft after it has landed"
but instead an ambulance waiting for your ill passenger upon arrival, which is always nice...
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There is a distinct separation in interpretation according to ICAO Pans ATM 4444, between 1) Priority landing & 2) Emergency.
A piority landing request, irrespective of life threatening state of health of passenger is NOT an emergency.
A priority landing request by pilot with reason for request will ensure that the ATCO re-prioritizes your landing sequence such that your track miles to touchdown are reduced to an absolute minimum whilst continuously ensuring standard Air Traffic management within associated CTR/TMA/CTA. Medical assistance will as a matter of procedure be arranged upon arrival.
An emergency consitues setting of transponder to 7700 unless ATC has issued a specific code.
An emergency will consitute Unlawful interference, Bomb Threat, Decompression, Fire, Fuel Critical and in many cases Radio Failure.
Associated transponder settings of 7600 or 7500 by the crew will alert the ATCO to disposition of aircraft.
In emergency cases where crew are still able to broadcast, then the associated Maydayx3 or Panx3 will be used.
Hope that helps.
A piority landing request, irrespective of life threatening state of health of passenger is NOT an emergency.
A priority landing request by pilot with reason for request will ensure that the ATCO re-prioritizes your landing sequence such that your track miles to touchdown are reduced to an absolute minimum whilst continuously ensuring standard Air Traffic management within associated CTR/TMA/CTA. Medical assistance will as a matter of procedure be arranged upon arrival.
An emergency consitues setting of transponder to 7700 unless ATC has issued a specific code.
An emergency will consitute Unlawful interference, Bomb Threat, Decompression, Fire, Fuel Critical and in many cases Radio Failure.
Associated transponder settings of 7600 or 7500 by the crew will alert the ATCO to disposition of aircraft.
In emergency cases where crew are still able to broadcast, then the associated Maydayx3 or Panx3 will be used.
Hope that helps.
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Topo di radar, that last post of yours seems to have answered my question the best thusfar, giving the professional gen. that I needed. For a lot of crew on the line, it's sometimes a grey area. One doesn't want to underdo or overdo, only do what's appropriate.
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Look at the definition of each emergency and you will know exactly which one to use.1. Distress covers aircraft threatened[/COLOR] by grave and imminent danger and in need of immediate assistance.
Anything wrong with your plane..use this one
2. Urgency identifies a very urgent message concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft or other vehicle, or some person on board or within sight.
Anything to do with pax, crew or seeing something strange on the ground (ship sinking).... use this one.
Hope this helps.
Regards RE
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Mayday?
BTW there is a lively debate going on in the Tech Log Forum right now on this very subject. Thread title is "Mayday over the Bay of Biscay"
Interesting to see the European perspective especiaslly with regard to PAN.
Check it out.
Interesting to see the European perspective especiaslly with regard to PAN.
Check it out.
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THE NON ANGLOPHONE PERSPECTIVE
What a great thread!
I teach Aviation English to French Air Traffic Controller students at the French Aviation University (l'ENAC) in Toulouse and being an SA ATPL, Instructor and Radio Licence Examiner, I am struck by the amount of training that the ICNAs (ATCs) undergo and specifically in phraseaology.
I am also struck by the lack of real training that Pilots recieve in this field.
We tend to blunder our way through our Radio Licences and at the end of the day say things like "estimating yours" (if you do this to PE ATC they will ask if you are going to George!), or we call "position" over Africa because we know that if we give our AIREP correctly, the only response we will get is "station calling"!!
Here is a question: if you are told by ATC to "climb F250" is the correct response "climb or climbing F250"? Just shows the lack in my own training since I have been corrected here to say "climbing" whereas I have always (been) taught to read back verbatim.
I hope that all English speaking pilots and ATC are gearing up for 2008 when the new ICAO Language Proficiency Rating Scale minimum level 4 comes into effect. It will affect English mother toungue speakers as well (I am sure you have all skimmed through the AIC in this regard and ignored it).
Quite frankly I am shocked by the slang and casual language used over the air. I have only really become aware of it since listening to the many recordings we use to teach our students to comprehend "Live Traffic" and they listen in amazement to South African, American, British, Australian Pilots and ATCs in real recordings. We are expecting non mother tongue English ATCs and Pilots to use correct phraseology but we don't use it ourselves.
Back to the original thread. Avianca B707 Flight AV052 from Bogota to JFK crashed at Cove Neck, NY (1990) 12 miles short of the field due to lack of fuel. The Captain spoke no English and the FO overestimated his own Engilish abilitiies. The Captain told him to warn the ATC that they were running out of fuel but the FO made a vague reference to it to ATC and told the Captain that he had indeed made them aware of their plight. Apart from the cultural differences between the American ATC and the S American pilots, the FAA report into the crash gave the cause, amongst other, as "the lack of standardized understandable terminology for pilots and controllers for minumum and emergency fuel states". 73 fatalities resulted.
I wonder if somebody can put chapter and verse to the term "declaring an emergency" (in terms of ICAO Doc 4444).
I will be using this thread in my classes the future.
I teach Aviation English to French Air Traffic Controller students at the French Aviation University (l'ENAC) in Toulouse and being an SA ATPL, Instructor and Radio Licence Examiner, I am struck by the amount of training that the ICNAs (ATCs) undergo and specifically in phraseaology.
I am also struck by the lack of real training that Pilots recieve in this field.
We tend to blunder our way through our Radio Licences and at the end of the day say things like "estimating yours" (if you do this to PE ATC they will ask if you are going to George!), or we call "position" over Africa because we know that if we give our AIREP correctly, the only response we will get is "station calling"!!
Here is a question: if you are told by ATC to "climb F250" is the correct response "climb or climbing F250"? Just shows the lack in my own training since I have been corrected here to say "climbing" whereas I have always (been) taught to read back verbatim.
I hope that all English speaking pilots and ATC are gearing up for 2008 when the new ICAO Language Proficiency Rating Scale minimum level 4 comes into effect. It will affect English mother toungue speakers as well (I am sure you have all skimmed through the AIC in this regard and ignored it).
Quite frankly I am shocked by the slang and casual language used over the air. I have only really become aware of it since listening to the many recordings we use to teach our students to comprehend "Live Traffic" and they listen in amazement to South African, American, British, Australian Pilots and ATCs in real recordings. We are expecting non mother tongue English ATCs and Pilots to use correct phraseology but we don't use it ourselves.
Back to the original thread. Avianca B707 Flight AV052 from Bogota to JFK crashed at Cove Neck, NY (1990) 12 miles short of the field due to lack of fuel. The Captain spoke no English and the FO overestimated his own Engilish abilitiies. The Captain told him to warn the ATC that they were running out of fuel but the FO made a vague reference to it to ATC and told the Captain that he had indeed made them aware of their plight. Apart from the cultural differences between the American ATC and the S American pilots, the FAA report into the crash gave the cause, amongst other, as "the lack of standardized understandable terminology for pilots and controllers for minumum and emergency fuel states". 73 fatalities resulted.
I wonder if somebody can put chapter and verse to the term "declaring an emergency" (in terms of ICAO Doc 4444).
I will be using this thread in my classes the future.
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Agree - great thread.
Off the topic I know but since we touching on correct terminologies:
Re reporting flight levels: Should FL045 be reported as FL zero four five or FL four five. I have been told the latter is correct but many pilots use the former. Haven't been able to find a definitive answer.
Why do so many pilots use the term FOX instead of FOXTROT?? Is this acceptable? - as far as I am concerned if it was meant to be FOX they wouldnt have bothered putting the TROT on the end in the first place - sounds unprofessional to me. What's next - X instead of X RAY etc.
Why do so many pilots use the term 'at this time' Of course it's at this time - what other time would it be??? Reduntant words that only clutter the airwaves.
The other common one is pilots reading back departure clearances and saying 'after take off' instead of after departure'
any others??
Off the topic I know but since we touching on correct terminologies:
Re reporting flight levels: Should FL045 be reported as FL zero four five or FL four five. I have been told the latter is correct but many pilots use the former. Haven't been able to find a definitive answer.
Why do so many pilots use the term FOX instead of FOXTROT?? Is this acceptable? - as far as I am concerned if it was meant to be FOX they wouldnt have bothered putting the TROT on the end in the first place - sounds unprofessional to me. What's next - X instead of X RAY etc.
Why do so many pilots use the term 'at this time' Of course it's at this time - what other time would it be??? Reduntant words that only clutter the airwaves.
The other common one is pilots reading back departure clearances and saying 'after take off' instead of after departure'
any others??
