SA licences getting JAR recognition?
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What ever the rumours are: if JAR gets implemented here it will send Aviation down very quickly as there would be loads of changes to comply and with the standards over here that will make things different for many operators. Additionally as far as licencing goes, it will get even more difficult for AA and socalled "dispriviledged" people to obtain a licence - 14 exams also cost a hell of a lot more. I personally think it would be great - but I don't think they will do it soon.
It took Germany 5 years at least to implement JAR from 2000 - then the date was postponed and postponed again and again and they finally did it in 2005. So maybe in 20 years in SA (or never...)?
It took Germany 5 years at least to implement JAR from 2000 - then the date was postponed and postponed again and again and they finally did it in 2005. So maybe in 20 years in SA (or never...)?
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JAR
CAA had a meeting with a Cape Town flight school the other day and they were very sure of the fact that we would go the JAR route. Their(CAA) feeling was that the benefit to all other than the higher standards would be our licenses being recognized in the EU. But as others have said...whether or not they would pass a JAR audit remains to be seen
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It would be good for SA boys for those who could afford it. THE QUESTION TO GO JAR or NOT. Im curently doing the JAR ATPL. Will shed some light on the costs.
You have 2 choices on how you wish to complete the course. Distance learning will take average 9 months to complete and then you are learning like hell, or in house 5 months full time, its alot of work, few pilots get it right first time.
The costs
14 subjects
Books distance learn £2000.00
Books in house £2500.00
Exam fees per subject £60.00 x 14 £ 840.00
Medical £ 500.00
CPL FLIGHT TEST Training £5000.00
ICAO CPL conversion £3000.00
CAA FEE CPL TEST UK £675.00
IR(instrument rating)Multi EngTraining £12000.00
ICAO IR conversion £6000.00
CAA FEE IR TEST UK £675.00
RATINGS. All turbine and Jet Ratings not done at an approved JAR facility will have to be reflown.
Total cost for a SA pilot who holds a valid CPL and IR doing distance learning will spend approx £13690.00 or R 150 000.00 rate of 11 to 1.
From Zero to ATPL £22190.00 or R 244 090.00 does not include ppl cost or flying the 150 hours required.
These are the costs for a JAR licence, and it won't get cheaper in SA. The JAR system is extremely expensive, South African currency does not support the costs nor do Pilot salaries in South Africa. Here in the UK banks do offer pilots student loans, unlike in SA where banks don't do this unless you have security to offer. If you were Lucky enough to secure a loan what would your repayments be and what salary would you have to earn to still live after making your monthly repayments. A bond of 20 years maybe!!!!
The SA CAA are on HAPPY PILLS if they think they going to convert to the JAR system. They don't even accept the JAR licence. Have they stopped to consider the costs, who will pay, its another of their tricks for them to kill aviation and to make money. Its a shame they want to give up the South African licence and not protect South African interest in the global aviation market. The USA refuse to give up their FAA licence, why should South Africa? South african pilots are of the best trained in the world. What I have seen here, their flight training is no different from that in South Africa, you still fly the same aircraft the same approach and the same landing, there is no difference in training, its the costs.
But thats my thoughts, maybe I'm wrong you be the Judge.
You have 2 choices on how you wish to complete the course. Distance learning will take average 9 months to complete and then you are learning like hell, or in house 5 months full time, its alot of work, few pilots get it right first time.
The costs
14 subjects
Books distance learn £2000.00
Books in house £2500.00
Exam fees per subject £60.00 x 14 £ 840.00
Medical £ 500.00
CPL FLIGHT TEST Training £5000.00
ICAO CPL conversion £3000.00
CAA FEE CPL TEST UK £675.00
IR(instrument rating)Multi EngTraining £12000.00
ICAO IR conversion £6000.00
CAA FEE IR TEST UK £675.00
RATINGS. All turbine and Jet Ratings not done at an approved JAR facility will have to be reflown.
Total cost for a SA pilot who holds a valid CPL and IR doing distance learning will spend approx £13690.00 or R 150 000.00 rate of 11 to 1.
From Zero to ATPL £22190.00 or R 244 090.00 does not include ppl cost or flying the 150 hours required.
These are the costs for a JAR licence, and it won't get cheaper in SA. The JAR system is extremely expensive, South African currency does not support the costs nor do Pilot salaries in South Africa. Here in the UK banks do offer pilots student loans, unlike in SA where banks don't do this unless you have security to offer. If you were Lucky enough to secure a loan what would your repayments be and what salary would you have to earn to still live after making your monthly repayments. A bond of 20 years maybe!!!!
The SA CAA are on HAPPY PILLS if they think they going to convert to the JAR system. They don't even accept the JAR licence. Have they stopped to consider the costs, who will pay, its another of their tricks for them to kill aviation and to make money. Its a shame they want to give up the South African licence and not protect South African interest in the global aviation market. The USA refuse to give up their FAA licence, why should South Africa? South african pilots are of the best trained in the world. What I have seen here, their flight training is no different from that in South Africa, you still fly the same aircraft the same approach and the same landing, there is no difference in training, its the costs.
But thats my thoughts, maybe I'm wrong you be the Judge.
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JAR baby !!!
I think going JAR makes a lot of sense....maybe not for the golden oldies but for the young guns that would have the whole JAR aviation world to choose from.
Just my 2 cents anyway...
Just my 2 cents anyway...
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JAR change
I have asked about this before in here, but seem some of you have heard the rumour too. I have heard this on 2 seperate occasions from 4 different CAA inspectors so must be some truth to it.......
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Originally Posted by ghostrider42
I have asked about this before in here, but seem some of you have heard the rumour too. I have heard this on 2 seperate occasions from 4 different CAA inspectors so must be some truth to it.......
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It's not because SACAA suddenly manages to follow EASA Parts (the JAA disappears for ever in less than 6 months, remember ?) that they'll become "accepted for mutual recognition", meaning that a "JAR-FCL" license issued by SACAA is immediately accepted without any limitation by EU CAAs. You obviously have to pass the audits, and then wait for a full year !
States that have nothing to do with the European Union sometimes decide to follow some but not all EU standards because they feel that's better for their industry (I think Mauritius did that).
But we're definitely NOT there yet. Let's see if SACAA even manages to pass an FAA audit. Or even an ICAO audit...
States that have nothing to do with the European Union sometimes decide to follow some but not all EU standards because they feel that's better for their industry (I think Mauritius did that).
But we're definitely NOT there yet. Let's see if SACAA even manages to pass an FAA audit. Or even an ICAO audit...
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I only have one question!!!
Why on earth would you have a European System implemented in South Africa? Seems rather silly!!!
South Africa should keep its way of doing things under the SACAA that makes alot more sense. What really matters is that the SACAA is a member of ICAO!!!!
Happy Landings!!!!
Pete77!!!
Why on earth would you have a European System implemented in South Africa? Seems rather silly!!!
South Africa should keep its way of doing things under the SACAA that makes alot more sense. What really matters is that the SACAA is a member of ICAO!!!!
Happy Landings!!!!
Pete77!!!
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Err, probably because civil aviation authorities from around the globe are now trying to inject as many "quality concepts" as possible in their operations ? Traceability, customer service, excellence, reliability, safety, etc. Then it's easier to copy something that's been already done than to reinvent the wheel once again. Considering SA's history and tremendous weight of the British in EU aviation laws, it kinda makes sense to turn to the EASA.
No, I'm not kidding you !
Maybe I should add that it's not because they try that they succeed, but you knew that didn't you ?
No, I'm not kidding you !
Maybe I should add that it's not because they try that they succeed, but you knew that didn't you ?
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Very Interesting,
Then why not adopt a system used in another southern hemisphere member country like for instance Australias CASA. It would be alot cheaper and easier to implement and I believe that you might find same "quality concepts" as possible in their operations ? Traceability, customer service, excellence, reliability, safety, etc. That you are looking to implement in South Africa.
But I guess you already know that don't you!!!!!!
Keep It Safe!!!!
Pete77
Then why not adopt a system used in another southern hemisphere member country like for instance Australias CASA. It would be alot cheaper and easier to implement and I believe that you might find same "quality concepts" as possible in their operations ? Traceability, customer service, excellence, reliability, safety, etc. That you are looking to implement in South Africa.
But I guess you already know that don't you!!!!!!
Keep It Safe!!!!
Pete77
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JAA structure
This thread is getting shot down by some.......... but we at Eastern Cape Flight School have also been told about the coming change next year.
Basically SACAA were caught with their pants down at the last ICAO audit and told to get their house in order else lose the right to fly to Europe and Bushworld. What we have heard is the SACAA is wanting to adopt the JAA "structure" to the exam system, books, course material etc etc and slowly start to make changes thereafter, which is great so much crap in the syllabus at present. I agree they would never pass a JAR audit so lets see what happens.....there's hope for us!
Basically SACAA were caught with their pants down at the last ICAO audit and told to get their house in order else lose the right to fly to Europe and Bushworld. What we have heard is the SACAA is wanting to adopt the JAA "structure" to the exam system, books, course material etc etc and slowly start to make changes thereafter, which is great so much crap in the syllabus at present. I agree they would never pass a JAR audit so lets see what happens.....there's hope for us!
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Cargodoor I don't know who you spoke to at CAA but I was there when they came around to our offices to discuss it, it's on the cards for sure, can they get it together? - well that's going to be a long thread when it starts. Hopefully the CAA syllabus will FINALLY get updated from the early 70's