Silly Twits! Flying Tiger Harvards

[J3ST3R]

Originally Posted by Ajax 28

I would love to know what all the people who seem to support this "stunt" would have said if one of the aircraft had crashed.... would you all still praise the "stunt"...? Just some food for thought...

Aerobatics teams are supposed to "wow the crowds" - that's the whole point! Every single display we see involves an element of risk ... that is the nature of aerobatics.

Should we now stop supporting the displays of the Silver Falcons, the Sasol Tigers, the USAF Thunderbirds, as they have all lost aircraft (and pilots) during displays?

[Shrike200]

Originally Posted by nugpot

Think of this as a VFR pilot seeing a CAT II approach for the first time. Absolute magic until you know how.

Yes, yes, but lets say I want to do this myself- how would I go about it? Should I just head off to some lake in my Cub on a calm day, or what? At least with a CAT II approach I actually get trained by somebody who knows how to do it, according to clearly defined procedures (both for the approach and for the training). And it's all done on the sim to get it right, plus there's recurrency training, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for experienced pilots doing great stunts with planes, and this is a great stunt. My question above is genuine - how did these guys do it the first time? Surely they must have (to misquote nike) 'just did it'? Maybe after some tips from somebody else who had done it before...ie remember the brakes or something like that!

[J3ST3R]

It's clear that this type of stunt has been done before, as pictures posted elsewhere on this site can attest. I understand that this stunt was also performed by a few "windgat" Kudu pilots during the Border War.

So it would just have taken a little research and calling around to get the lowdown on how to pull it off.

I think what makes this stunt unique is the number of aircraft taking part, and the media coverage of the event.

[Stan Schroeder]

First time for everything

Shrike, I understand what you are saying, but how was anything done the first time, what about the inverted ribbon cut at 20ft off the deck?? how was that done the first time? and methinks it holds just as much a "smear you down the rwy" factor as the harvards watersking on the Poch dam, never seen anyone loose thier rag over that stunt.
What about Chuck breaking the barrier? Just go and do it, even something that we all take for granted today, stalls and spins, someone had to just go and do it, and today we reap the benefits thereof.
See everything just "had to be done" for the first time, but it is about CALCULATED risk, no one is saying that there is no element of danger, sure there is, just a motor coughing would spoil your day, but the risk is calculated.
There is an element of risk, every time we strap ourselves into a hurtling piece of aluminium and defy the laws of gravity, even as a student in a 172.
The sad thing, is how many weekend warriors go and smear themselves across the countryside every summer season, taking on bad weather and marginal vfr with thier 150hr vfr ppl licences, I for one would like to see as much energy and outcry as has gone into this thread, go into trying to stamp out the behavior of these "twits", they generaly take innocent, unsespecting folk with them.....now how sad is that.

Keep the top side up and the pointy end going forward

[Nellis]

My goodness, we have a bunch of seriously boring pilots around. Did the Wright brothers have to get flying instruction before they started flying. Half the fun of flying is taking yourself into the red and checking the boundaries. If you do not get the adrenalin rush and the hollow feeling in your stomach now and then, you will never know your limits. If you take things into the red and you hit the brick wall, then your planning was poor and more than likely you will not do it again.

Where is the spirit of man amongst you guys? Where is the spirit of adventure?

Julle is soos ou vroens met 'n nat broek!! [Translated means: You are like old ladies with wet panties!!]

[RadTag]

I have to agree with Pointer41. Altough it looks spectacular, its a bad example of what flying is about. I am willing to bet money that some idiot kills himself trying to recreate this. Leave the stupid stunts for the boys from the "Jackass" movies.

[james ozzie]

150 hr VFR PPL Twits

....with thier 150hr vfr ppl licences, I for one would like to see as much energy and outcry as has gone into this thread, go into trying to stamp out the behavior of these "twits",
Nice one, Stan.
This is a Professional Pilots site, I know, but just a word for the low hour VFR PPL bottom feeders (remember you nearly all were once one yourselves!!!) - There is a silent majority of PPLs out there who are cautious, mindful of their limitations, respectful of the rules and who have clean incident free flying records. I have not studied the stats but the impression I get from the accident reports is that the majority of bad incidents seem to involve pilots with ratings and considerable experience - perhaps as they get higher hours, ratings, complex types & accustomed to flying in bad weather, their confidence outgrows their abilities?
Back to thread...

[B Sousa]

I am willing to bet money that some idiot kills himself trying to recreate this.

There does seem to be an abundant supply of those and there is plenty of water around, hopefully they wont harm anyone else.......
Go for it..........


I still see posts on this matter as if these guys do this in everyday flying. Somewhere the message says that these folks train for this, its stunt flying and its for airshows. I would hope and do assume that if they have other flying jobs there is a wide line between the two.
I cant understand the bad name thing for Aviation based on stunts for airshows.
Again if these guys fly for SAA and skim the ocean when landing at CPT, its a whole different ballgame.

[Stan Schroeder]

ppl's

James
You are absolutly correct, my comments are not a shot at ppls in general, as you say we were all there, and I for one was one of the silent majority of the law abiding and straight out of the rule book ppl's, and still am as a comm pilot.
I was merely stating that there is a big enough uproar when a few, highly trained and qualified pilots do a stunt on a dam, yet every summer we read the reports of bad weather accidents and the forums or mouth pieces in place don't come alive with the same condemnation.
Perhaps I should rephrase, I realize that for every one top gun maverick out there there are nine who play it straight and clean, and this applies not only to the PPL freternaty, but through the ranks of Comm and ATP as well.
Unfortunatly it is this minority, that do our industry no good in the eyes of the general public.
Bet you a dollar to a dime one accident invoving fatalities puts us in a worse light than the water ski stunt, in the eyes of the public, and so it should be.
Hope that straightens it out.

[currawong]

Shrike200,

Get yourself a job with an Ag operator that works rice. Chances are he will not turn you loose untill you can do what these folks do.

Its a safety thing.

As for bad examples...Red Arrows, Blue Angels...all those nasty aerobatics at low level...downright dangerous

[Shrike200]

Of course, I should have thought of that - low level ops/judgement, tail draggers etc, that would do the trick. Just a pity you can't do that 'part time', away from the S&L at FL350 job. Doh!

[Dammit]

Shrike200 Give up flying and go back to your "Zimmer frame". Its a great desplay of skill. If pilots weren't prepaired to try new things you wouldn't have your CATII ILS. If it was pland and properly thought out then it is an example of good flying. You shouldn't be flying if you are scared of planes. Show respect but never be scared......

[B Sousa]

Get yourself a job with an Ag operator that works rice. Chances are he will not turn you loose untill you can do what these folks do.
Its a safety thing.
As for bad examples...Red Arrows, Blue Angels...all those nasty aerobatics at low level...downright dangerous

Currawong, you have been counting sheep too long. Ag operators do things like this not as a "Safety Thing" but as a "Lets see how good you really think you are, thing". Ag folks have a horrible safety record.

As to the demo teams being dangerous, sure, more than the average flyer. It goes with the territory and if you cant handle it you shouldnt be there. Danger for the most part is restricted to the participants. Albeit some get to close to the crowds as we have seen in the past.

[Shrike200]

Whoa! Slow down dude! Go and reread what I've posted - you'll find I said something like "I like great aviation stunts, and this is a great stunt!" Just look at the comments on the PPL thread, guys are even debating whether this was done in Photoshop - it's a great stunt!

I also subscribe to the thought that aircraft are fun, and exciting stunts by experienced pilots is all good. I suppose when I go for my next session of aerobatics, I'll have to skip packing the zimmer frame, it did tend to bounce around the cockpit the whole time - a real pain. (Previous sentence said in jest, just to clarify for you.)

I was just wondering how they, or anyone else (for example myself ) could gain that experience, maybe one day I'd also like to do things like that for displays. Clear enough?

[Dammit]

Shrike200. Good man . I take it all back

[Sir Cumference]

Fact is it was planned, undertaken and if the pictures are real, they provide proof of a very successful and unique display!

I am led to believe that the program "Aviation Action Africa" the first of which was aired this last month on Supersport 2, will have video footage of the stunt. I personally look forward to seeing it!

SC

[J3ST3R]

Originally Posted by Sir Cumference

Fact is it was planned, undertaken and if the pictures are real, they provide proof of a very successful and unique display!
I am led to believe that the program "Aviation Action Africa" the first of which was aired this last month on Supersport 2, will have video footage of the stunt. I personally look forward to seeing it!
SC

Here is the flighting schedule for the Aviation Action episode featuring this stunt:

13 March @ 20h00 (SuperSport 1)
14 March @ 03h00 (SuperSport 1)
14 March @ 07h30 (SuperSport 1)
15 March @ 14h30 (SuperSport 2)
18 March @ 02h30 (SuperSport 1)
21 March @ 19h30 (SuperSport 1)

[US student]

1st impressions last: Flying Lions

I was recently really embarrassed by the photos of the Flying Lions over the Klipdrift dam.
I'm 100% sure that the Lions jumped through all the hoops required(excuse the pun!), did all the necessary briefings and prepared well for photo shoot, afterall they're all experienced and highly regarded pilots.

Neverless, when I was shown the photos by one of my colleagues I really felt embarrased. The question asked me was if this was if this was typical of SA pilots. What could I say..... Are the Lions really testing new skills and expanding the envelope? I mean we've been flying Harvards for a long time. 40 years ago, yes this is ground breaking. Today? I have my doubts

The guys who asked these questions are not monkeys, they're highly regarded aviators (ex-Chief Test pilot of NASA, ex-3 time space shuttle commander, Skunkworks chief engineer to mention a few!)

To a Leyman the photos are really impressive, so i'm sure they'll have the effect that was intended to the general public. But, is this really the impression we want to portray to the international flying community?

Like I say, first impressions last!

[putco]

I'm thinking the big difference between a NASA test pilot and the Flying Lions is that the latter haven't lost an aircraft yet! But you're right, the message is not great, just like feathering both engines, rolling and pouring iced tea - backhand!

If you attempt this without planning and common sense you probably shouldn't be a passenger on an aircraft!

Lovely pictures, well done, move on.

[B200Drvr]

US Student, I am sure these fellows have watched the likes of Bob Hoover (mentioned above) Sean D Tucker and many other great American airshow/stunt pilots perform, just look at some of the flying in the movies. Thats all this was, a stunt performed by a very, very experienced team of stunt/airshow pilots, this was not done by a group of weekend warriors on the spur of the moment.
If the Americans had done it, they would have hailed it as great, which is what it truely was. Take nothing away from these performers, that was a performance second to none. Hats off.