Helicopter crash off Cape Point
Gatvol
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Rarely doe a name get mentioned prior to notification of next of Kin. When it does occur it usually requires someone in the Police process to get their hands slapped.
I wouldnt be surprised on the method used to obtain the name would have been to call the family and asked if the person was home yet.........Morons.
Since many have posted here and the King of Cut and Paste has left his sources. We can assume at this point an inexperienced Pilot got in over his head and the military aircraft had nothing to do with it..........
I guess some of the more sensitive here would call that speculation. Lets see how close it comes.....
It does not make it any easier on the family
I wouldnt be surprised on the method used to obtain the name would have been to call the family and asked if the person was home yet.........Morons.
Since many have posted here and the King of Cut and Paste has left his sources. We can assume at this point an inexperienced Pilot got in over his head and the military aircraft had nothing to do with it..........
I guess some of the more sensitive here would call that speculation. Lets see how close it comes.....
It does not make it any easier on the family
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R22 Down
There are some very worrying things coming out of this tradgedy, as a Heli pilot in CT I regularly hire-and-fly at most of the flight schools here. All of them have the same rules for student pilots:
1. No solo flying when the wind is above 15kts
2. Solo flights for students to the GF area only, ie Delta 200 unless on a specific instructor approved solo cross country in which a flight plan should be filed.
3. No flight over water, period - as a solo student
The next question is who was he following....or if he wasn't following an instructor in another aircraft who in their right mind gave him permission to fly in the Cape Point area where the wind is rarely below 30kts.
And, not to start anything else but just a thought, when you call ATC for clearance at CPTINTL you state that you are a student pilot on a cross country, normally they would be sceptical of you being allowed to fly off to Cape Point and would contact the school....
All kinds of things happen here, what about his life insurance, 2 kids and a wife, will they pay out? I doubt it, as far as I know most of them don't give you life cover for flying until you have finished your PPL
And the AC owner, how does he feel being about 2 bar out of pocket
will his insurance cough up?
A very tragic event from all angles, condolences to the family
I hope we get to the bottom of all of this!!
1. No solo flying when the wind is above 15kts
2. Solo flights for students to the GF area only, ie Delta 200 unless on a specific instructor approved solo cross country in which a flight plan should be filed.
3. No flight over water, period - as a solo student
The next question is who was he following....or if he wasn't following an instructor in another aircraft who in their right mind gave him permission to fly in the Cape Point area where the wind is rarely below 30kts.
And, not to start anything else but just a thought, when you call ATC for clearance at CPTINTL you state that you are a student pilot on a cross country, normally they would be sceptical of you being allowed to fly off to Cape Point and would contact the school....
All kinds of things happen here, what about his life insurance, 2 kids and a wife, will they pay out? I doubt it, as far as I know most of them don't give you life cover for flying until you have finished your PPL
And the AC owner, how does he feel being about 2 bar out of pocket
will his insurance cough up?A very tragic event from all angles, condolences to the family
I hope we get to the bottom of all of this!!
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Originally Posted by Heli_Sticktime
3. No flight over water ...
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There is a procedure for us contacting the flying school if a pilot flies around the Capew Point???? Must admit I don't know anything about this one. News to me and I do work tower every now and then.
Maybe it is in the SOPs and I have not read it, but I don't think so - would be interested to hear where you got that info from Heli_Sticktime.
One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on trainging flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example. Approved areas are there for reasons. One wonders if this occurence would have happened if the student was doing (apparant formation flying) training in an approved area?
Maybe it is in the SOPs and I have not read it, but I don't think so - would be interested to hear where you got that info from Heli_Sticktime.
One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on trainging flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example. Approved areas are there for reasons. One wonders if this occurence would have happened if the student was doing (apparant formation flying) training in an approved area?
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Sorry Goldfish Jack, was not implying that it was a SOP, just affirming what you say in your next paragraph -
One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on training flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example.
You guys know what's normal practise for the flight schools, but maybe in this instance there were two AC(as speculated earlier) and that the lead AC doing the radio work was an instructor and that's possibly why no questions were raised at time of departure?
One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on training flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example.
You guys know what's normal practise for the flight schools, but maybe in this instance there were two AC(as speculated earlier) and that the lead AC doing the radio work was an instructor and that's possibly why no questions were raised at time of departure?
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If this was indeed a first solo flght - then surely the guy does a circuit, lands, his instructor gets back in and they go drink tea or juice or something.
Then onto three hours of solo consolidation before being let loose to the GF - or has the whole thing changed in the last few years.
Maybe the first solo thing is just journo garbage!
Then onto three hours of solo consolidation before being let loose to the GF - or has the whole thing changed in the last few years.
Maybe the first solo thing is just journo garbage!
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First solo, but that should keep him in the circuit off course, or has it changed.
Instructor, which school can afford instructors flying "naval" maschines in a leading position? He should surely then be following the student, or what use has that then being in front of him.
ATC tapes may reveal something, I'm sure, not the RT ones alone. What was in the area, in the air at that time, resembling eyewitness (plural, albeit one was protecting the baboons from the tourists) accounts.
This will end the speculation. Otherwise someones conscience should wake up as even an Oryx has more than one crew member.
Waiting for the truth to reveal itself.
Instructor, which school can afford instructors flying "naval" maschines in a leading position? He should surely then be following the student, or what use has that then being in front of him.
ATC tapes may reveal something, I'm sure, not the RT ones alone. What was in the area, in the air at that time, resembling eyewitness (plural, albeit one was protecting the baboons from the tourists) accounts.
This will end the speculation. Otherwise someones conscience should wake up as even an Oryx has more than one crew member.
Waiting for the truth to reveal itself.
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CAPE TIMES
Police recovered the wreck of the helicopter and the body of the pilot yesterday, on the second day of the dramatic search for the helicopter that crashed into the sea on Tuesday near Buffels Bay off Cape Point.
The body of the pilot, 41-year-old Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus from Plattekloof, was found outside the wreckage.
On Tuesday a black Robinson 22 helicopter, being piloted by Erasmus, a trainee pilot, was flying with another helicopter in the Cape Point area.
About 800m from the shore Erasmus's helicopter "began to lose height and nose-dived into the sea", said eye-witness Sue Dalrymple.
Navy divers, police divers, Metro and Disaster Management helped in Tuesday's search for the plane which started at about 1pm and was called off at about 8pm.
Police spokesman, Billy Jones, said divers yesterday morning went into the water at 7am but had to suspend the search due to bad conditions. Later, the search was resumed and the wreck was located.
According to Erasmus's partner in his commercial law firm, Riaan Marx, Erasmus, who had two sons aged two and four, was a conservative and precise man who loved flying.
"He had being flying solo for at least three weeks," he said.
Marx said the Erasmus family would like to thank everyone involved in the search.
"The three of us in our partnership were like the three musketeers, we were good partners but also great friends. We will miss him," said Marx.
National Sea Rescue Institute (NSIR), who co-ordinated the search on Tuesday, assisted in the search yesterday.
NSRI spokesman, Craig Lambinon, said the wreck was located at 3pm 20m below the surface, and the pilot's body was lifted out of the wreck. The body was handed over to the police.
The divers used airbags to lift the wreck to the surface.
The helicopter wreck was loaded on board a Smit Amandla salvage vessel assisting in the search. The vessel was expected to arrive in Cape Town harbour by 10 last night. From there the helicopter wreck would be handed over to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), who were on scene throughout the day's search. The CAA would investigate the wreck to establish the cause of the accident.
Lambinon said the Council of Geosciences and members of the Marine Geosciences unit on the search boat helped find the wreck with a side-scan sonar, which allowed them to see the bottom of the ocean.
Police recovered the wreck of the helicopter and the body of the pilot yesterday, on the second day of the dramatic search for the helicopter that crashed into the sea on Tuesday near Buffels Bay off Cape Point.
The body of the pilot, 41-year-old Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus from Plattekloof, was found outside the wreckage.
On Tuesday a black Robinson 22 helicopter, being piloted by Erasmus, a trainee pilot, was flying with another helicopter in the Cape Point area.
About 800m from the shore Erasmus's helicopter "began to lose height and nose-dived into the sea", said eye-witness Sue Dalrymple.
Navy divers, police divers, Metro and Disaster Management helped in Tuesday's search for the plane which started at about 1pm and was called off at about 8pm.
Police spokesman, Billy Jones, said divers yesterday morning went into the water at 7am but had to suspend the search due to bad conditions. Later, the search was resumed and the wreck was located.
According to Erasmus's partner in his commercial law firm, Riaan Marx, Erasmus, who had two sons aged two and four, was a conservative and precise man who loved flying.
"He had being flying solo for at least three weeks," he said.
Marx said the Erasmus family would like to thank everyone involved in the search.
"The three of us in our partnership were like the three musketeers, we were good partners but also great friends. We will miss him," said Marx.
National Sea Rescue Institute (NSIR), who co-ordinated the search on Tuesday, assisted in the search yesterday.
NSRI spokesman, Craig Lambinon, said the wreck was located at 3pm 20m below the surface, and the pilot's body was lifted out of the wreck. The body was handed over to the police.
The divers used airbags to lift the wreck to the surface.
The helicopter wreck was loaded on board a Smit Amandla salvage vessel assisting in the search. The vessel was expected to arrive in Cape Town harbour by 10 last night. From there the helicopter wreck would be handed over to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), who were on scene throughout the day's search. The CAA would investigate the wreck to establish the cause of the accident.
Lambinon said the Council of Geosciences and members of the Marine Geosciences unit on the search boat helped find the wreck with a side-scan sonar, which allowed them to see the bottom of the ocean.
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The Argus reported this afternoon that 3 R 22's left for a training flight from the WATERFRONT!!! Since when do solo Nav students depart from the V & A?? Over Water, without floats...!
Excuse my ignorance but that is just plain stupid! (If the reports are correct)
I hope we can get a statement out of the training school to indicate what the real facts are so that the conflicting reports can be stopped...
Excuse my ignorance but that is just plain stupid! (If the reports are correct)
I hope we can get a statement out of the training school to indicate what the real facts are so that the conflicting reports can be stopped...
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Sonar spots pilot and chopper
January 19, 2006
By Norman Joseph & Fouzia van der Fort
Advanced technology helped locate the wreckage and the body of the trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash off Cape Point two days ago.
A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m metres from the shore.
Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.
The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.
National Sea Rescue Institute spokesman Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.
"A relatively large area had been searched."
The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.
Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.
The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.
It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.
Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.
On Tuesday the sophisticated sonar equipment arrived.
Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.
Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.
Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus yesterday.
His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.
January 19, 2006
By Norman Joseph & Fouzia van der Fort
Advanced technology helped locate the wreckage and the body of the trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash off Cape Point two days ago.
A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m metres from the shore.
Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.
The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.
National Sea Rescue Institute spokesman Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.
"A relatively large area had been searched."
The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.
Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.
The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.
It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.
Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.
On Tuesday the sophisticated sonar equipment arrived.
Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.
Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.
Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus yesterday.
His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.
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Condolences to the family and friends.
Remember, at the end of the day, anybody involved with aviation in this country (SA) is family (like to know it or not). We might like to believe we (the SA aviation industry) are Gods gift to wings and blades but the industry in this country is actually very, very small. Whether it's four jets, twin turbines, a piston or a Rotax or nothing (for the glider/paraglider etc guys).
From what I've read on this thread and heard from a Cape Townian yesterday, I can only comment as follows, keeping in mind that we are ALL commenting with very little FACTS.
If this was a student pilot, management of the school should not have allowed flying in the prevailing weather conditions (as qouted on here) - (the area - offshore- where the student flew is thus not relevant).
I agree with GFJ that ANY student cross country flight should file a flight plan, day night whatever. Fact is scarce - was this a cross country?
The NAVAL helicopter COULD have been an Oryx 3 km (?) away. To the unindated (non-flying types), the distance (size of an Oryx vs a R22) coupled to parralax error (speed) it could have seemed that the two helo's were in formation.
Remember, the worst eye witness in any flying accident is a knowledgeable one (he/she who knows about flying - they draw their own "knowledgeable" conclusions). The normal person on the street usually carries it across better - as it happens (except for the smoke and the explosion when it happens on land as that is SOP for any flying accident for the unindated). Therefor, from a very UNINFORMED PPruner, judging from the eyewitness reports as conveyed to us in the press (suspect immediately), things seemed to have happenned very quickly when the aircraft went down. It could have been one of many things...think about it...gearbox...tail rotor failure...medical condition...gusts/wind...the list is endless. We can all speculate...lets wait and see.
I can just add that I hope the CAA does the investigation properly as any accident which ends up in the sea (no matter how deep) where there's no FDR/CVR and no crew members to give an account of events is very difficult. Have t-shirt and know of a guy that did an excellent job on a similar (it was a jet though) accident many moons ago.
Remember, at the end of the day, anybody involved with aviation in this country (SA) is family (like to know it or not). We might like to believe we (the SA aviation industry) are Gods gift to wings and blades but the industry in this country is actually very, very small. Whether it's four jets, twin turbines, a piston or a Rotax or nothing (for the glider/paraglider etc guys).
From what I've read on this thread and heard from a Cape Townian yesterday, I can only comment as follows, keeping in mind that we are ALL commenting with very little FACTS.
If this was a student pilot, management of the school should not have allowed flying in the prevailing weather conditions (as qouted on here) - (the area - offshore- where the student flew is thus not relevant).
I agree with GFJ that ANY student cross country flight should file a flight plan, day night whatever. Fact is scarce - was this a cross country?
The NAVAL helicopter COULD have been an Oryx 3 km (?) away. To the unindated (non-flying types), the distance (size of an Oryx vs a R22) coupled to parralax error (speed) it could have seemed that the two helo's were in formation.
Remember, the worst eye witness in any flying accident is a knowledgeable one (he/she who knows about flying - they draw their own "knowledgeable" conclusions). The normal person on the street usually carries it across better - as it happens (except for the smoke and the explosion when it happens on land as that is SOP for any flying accident for the unindated). Therefor, from a very UNINFORMED PPruner, judging from the eyewitness reports as conveyed to us in the press (suspect immediately), things seemed to have happenned very quickly when the aircraft went down. It could have been one of many things...think about it...gearbox...tail rotor failure...medical condition...gusts/wind...the list is endless. We can all speculate...lets wait and see.
I can just add that I hope the CAA does the investigation properly as any accident which ends up in the sea (no matter how deep) where there's no FDR/CVR and no crew members to give an account of events is very difficult. Have t-shirt and know of a guy that did an excellent job on a similar (it was a jet though) accident many moons ago.
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Could the "military helicopter" have been our old friend, the Huey? I cannot imagine that a SAAF helicopter would either fly with a civvie, or allow itself to be followed by a civvie, no matter the circumstances.
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There was a lot more written in local newspapers yesterday - especially witness accounts.
As we all know : They can not count as reliable but all of them have at least another chopper nearby of Naval / Military background.
What also comes out very clear is that the doomed Robbie took a sudden nose dive / aerobatic manoevre / slump forward.
Possible heart attack from Mr Erasmus ?
So many possibilities .. so many vacuums to fill.
The autopsy is today as far as I know.
As we all know : They can not count as reliable but all of them have at least another chopper nearby of Naval / Military background.
What also comes out very clear is that the doomed Robbie took a sudden nose dive / aerobatic manoevre / slump forward.
Possible heart attack from Mr Erasmus ?
So many possibilities .. so many vacuums to fill.
The autopsy is today as far as I know.
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How the Chopper wreck was found
Advanced technology helped locate the wreckage and the body of the trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash off Cape Point two days ago.
A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m from the shore.
Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.
The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.
National Sea Rescue Institute spokesperson Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.
The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.
Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.
The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.
It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.
Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.
The sophisticated sonar equipment arrived on Tuesday.
Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.
Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.
Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus on Wednesday.
His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.
A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m from the shore.
Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.
The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.
National Sea Rescue Institute spokesperson Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.
The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.
Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.
The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.
It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.
Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.
The sophisticated sonar equipment arrived on Tuesday.
Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.
Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.
Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus on Wednesday.
His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.