ZS-FUN off the runway - Kinshasa DRC
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Zs-fun
Just spoke to the nursey,who is none the worsey - for being onboard (sorry, couldn't resist that!)
She was onboard, said they came out of the cloud at about 2,000 feet agl in rain (presumably on the approach). They could see four to five runway lengths ahead, touched down and slid, lost directional and went off the runway.
However, another nursey (not onboard) tried to cover up( I think), (she was expecting trouble?) by saying they hit something (the side of the runway?) on landing.
Really not such a big deal, and it WILL happen to some of us here.
So.......lets leave it to the CAA, (if they can find Kinshasa on a map, never mind get there) and the insurance assessor ?
Hmmmm.....I wonder if the CAA has a pecking order in the accident department (mind you the WHOLE CAA is an accident department?) which has Kobus vd Merwe doing the Kinshasa investigation while Ceepho does the Heathrow SAA flat spotted tyre???
Sorry ! Couldn't resist that either !
She was onboard, said they came out of the cloud at about 2,000 feet agl in rain (presumably on the approach). They could see four to five runway lengths ahead, touched down and slid, lost directional and went off the runway.
However, another nursey (not onboard) tried to cover up( I think), (she was expecting trouble?) by saying they hit something (the side of the runway?) on landing.
Really not such a big deal, and it WILL happen to some of us here.
So.......lets leave it to the CAA, (if they can find Kinshasa on a map, never mind get there) and the insurance assessor ?
Hmmmm.....I wonder if the CAA has a pecking order in the accident department (mind you the WHOLE CAA is an accident department?) which has Kobus vd Merwe doing the Kinshasa investigation while Ceepho does the Heathrow SAA flat spotted tyre???
Sorry ! Couldn't resist that either !
Join Date: May 2003
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Stop bashing crews.
Those of us with experience in aquaplaning will just say "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY" well done to a super crew (Got the Tshirt have flown with her) If it was not aquaplaning "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY"
Remember all pilots the next crash may be yours, it just depends on who is sitting on the shoulder (Angel or devil)
Those of us with experience in aquaplaning will just say "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY" well done to a super crew (Got the Tshirt have flown with her) If it was not aquaplaning "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY"
Remember all pilots the next crash may be yours, it just depends on who is sitting on the shoulder (Angel or devil)
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Quote: Remember all pilots the next crash may be yours, it just depends on who is sitting on the shoulder (Angel or devil)
Worst load of rubbish I have ever heard!
I am not critisising any of the crew involved in this, but in my opinion, aqua-planing is a poor judgement decision.
1. The runway conditions would have been reported to the pilots and they should have been aware of the potential for aqua-planing and therefore ready for it and even considered going to Brassaville or some other airfield with better conditions.
Is aqua-planing just one of those conditions which happen and we just put down to, 'oh well, thats how it goes?'...dont think so, otherwise, why dont we hear of commercial airliners aqua-planing off runways on a daily basis?
If I recall, landing on flooded runways with potential of aqua-planing, one puts down firmly and refrains from heavy braking...
FZAA also has miles of runway, so no need for braking, one could let it roll out to a complete stop.
We have all made mistakes, sometimes it is just better to put our hands up and say...yes, I messed up, but we all walked away and I have learnt something, instead of this defending the person no matter what.
So, my final question is: Is aqua-planing, in your opinions, a phenominum we have no control over and one day will all sucome to it?
Worst load of rubbish I have ever heard!
I am not critisising any of the crew involved in this, but in my opinion, aqua-planing is a poor judgement decision.
1. The runway conditions would have been reported to the pilots and they should have been aware of the potential for aqua-planing and therefore ready for it and even considered going to Brassaville or some other airfield with better conditions.
Is aqua-planing just one of those conditions which happen and we just put down to, 'oh well, thats how it goes?'...dont think so, otherwise, why dont we hear of commercial airliners aqua-planing off runways on a daily basis?
If I recall, landing on flooded runways with potential of aqua-planing, one puts down firmly and refrains from heavy braking...
FZAA also has miles of runway, so no need for braking, one could let it roll out to a complete stop.
We have all made mistakes, sometimes it is just better to put our hands up and say...yes, I messed up, but we all walked away and I have learnt something, instead of this defending the person no matter what.
So, my final question is: Is aqua-planing, in your opinions, a phenominum we have no control over and one day will all sucome to it?
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Exactly!
If we were all such good pilots as the first post-accident unofficial report always starts off with, no accidents would ever happen.
Off course we have all had little slips and some bigger and some of us did not survive the first, second or perhaps the 103rd! Once again, accident investigations should never focus to whom it occurred to, but that it occurred, in order to give recommendations for it not to happen again.
Recommendations exist for most eventualities and situations or how to aviod them. Granted, dodging them is the uneasy part....
Period.
south coast, dubble thumbs up!
If we were all such good pilots as the first post-accident unofficial report always starts off with, no accidents would ever happen.
Off course we have all had little slips and some bigger and some of us did not survive the first, second or perhaps the 103rd! Once again, accident investigations should never focus to whom it occurred to, but that it occurred, in order to give recommendations for it not to happen again.
Recommendations exist for most eventualities and situations or how to aviod them. Granted, dodging them is the uneasy part....
Period.
south coast, dubble thumbs up!
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4granted - can it not reach Kin direct? I heard the aircraft leave on the night in question and just thinking of the routing, it makes me wonder if anything is open at night for a refuelling stop? Have heard of 24's non stop Jhb - Kin direct and landing with fumes in the tank. I say no more.........
South Coast, sometimes in all fairness, the crew were probably not aware initially of the state of the runway at the time. After all it is 3rd rate ATC at Kinshasa at the best of times so the crew were probably unaware of runway condition.
Anyway it has happened and just an unfortunate experience for all..........
South Coast, sometimes in all fairness, the crew were probably not aware initially of the state of the runway at the time. After all it is 3rd rate ATC at Kinshasa at the best of times so the crew were probably unaware of runway condition.
Anyway it has happened and just an unfortunate experience for all..........
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Firstly Southcoast I ain't your boy....and secondly have you ever operated into Kin? If you have then you'll realise that you receive no information from the ATC as to the state of the runway.Since the aircraft departed JHB in the evening it would no doubt have landed in Kin in the dark. Putting all of this together again I assume that the crew were unaware of how wet the runway in fact was. If you are a seasoned traveller to Kinshasa then correct me otherwise. But this ain't Europe and once you're north of SA you receive absolutely no info on the state and condition of runways/airports!!!!!!:
The Hydro 74 prang springs to mind...................!!!!!
The Hydro 74 prang springs to mind...................!!!!!
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i think the hydro incident was a ditch on the runway, which apparently they had notams onboard stating that but believed the tower when cleared to land. (different story altogether...believe the notam or one in the tower which you just critised for being of poor standard in that part of the world)
yes, i spent 3 years in the drc and know exactly what the state of the atc is, but correct me if i am wrong, do you land on a runway without knowing the conditions?
i think that is a pretty weak agruement and would be considered unprofessional to land at a runway in the dark, when everyone knows the type of weather typical in that part of the world without perhaps questioning the state of the runway...
yes, i know they might not play an atis, nor may they tell you the state, but would you ask for the state of the runway?
i remember when flying into FZAA, and before descent or on the descent, we would ask for the last/latest weather at the airfield.
perhaps you should re-read my initial posting and see that i said i was not critisising anyone, but where a mistake, bad decision, error in judgement has been made, and i believe from the facts available on this thread that at least one of the above was made then i question why there is this blinkered opinion that the crew were not to blame?
a question i posted on the questions forum:
is aqua-planing a phenominum that as pilots we accept we have no control over and therefore one day will all be caught out by it?
answer:
no. you prepare and act according
to the situation. select a flap setting close to your aquaplaning speed. fly the airplane on proper speed and path . aim for the touchdown zone and make a firm touchdown. if any or all cannot be met then go around and try again.
i am no expert, but just seems strange that so many defend the incident as 'just one of those things?'
yes, i spent 3 years in the drc and know exactly what the state of the atc is, but correct me if i am wrong, do you land on a runway without knowing the conditions?
i think that is a pretty weak agruement and would be considered unprofessional to land at a runway in the dark, when everyone knows the type of weather typical in that part of the world without perhaps questioning the state of the runway...
yes, i know they might not play an atis, nor may they tell you the state, but would you ask for the state of the runway?
i remember when flying into FZAA, and before descent or on the descent, we would ask for the last/latest weather at the airfield.
perhaps you should re-read my initial posting and see that i said i was not critisising anyone, but where a mistake, bad decision, error in judgement has been made, and i believe from the facts available on this thread that at least one of the above was made then i question why there is this blinkered opinion that the crew were not to blame?
a question i posted on the questions forum:
is aqua-planing a phenominum that as pilots we accept we have no control over and therefore one day will all be caught out by it?
answer:
no. you prepare and act according
to the situation. select a flap setting close to your aquaplaning speed. fly the airplane on proper speed and path . aim for the touchdown zone and make a firm touchdown. if any or all cannot be met then go around and try again.
i am no expert, but just seems strange that so many defend the incident as 'just one of those things?'
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A common denominator darkest Africa ATC!!!!
Of course you always get the weather and so often how accurate is his assessment. Anyway we weren't there so how are we to judge!!!
Southcoast you have some valid points but unfortunately this has happened and hopefully we can learn from those unfortunate few in this accident.
Of course you always get the weather and so often how accurate is his assessment. Anyway we weren't there so how are we to judge!!!
Southcoast you have some valid points but unfortunately this has happened and hopefully we can learn from those unfortunate few in this accident.
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My Boy!!!
South
Having taken off on the morning after this incident, and can I say this, the weather was by no means better( I took a photo of FUN out of cockpit from 7 metres away and you cant see anything!) it was bad, Kinshasa or not, its a tough call to say we wait an extra 1 hour on the ground!! let alone lets hold for an extra 20 minutes for things to improve. I have landed in Kin, and no I AM NOT PROUD or joking to say that the no 2 engine flamed out in the taxi to the parking bay.. Lear 25, missed approach followed by visuall at 30 ' and 1 mile circuit...............
Have given up that sh1t now and fly proper a/c now.... never again. I feel and hope we all learn.
4g
Having taken off on the morning after this incident, and can I say this, the weather was by no means better( I took a photo of FUN out of cockpit from 7 metres away and you cant see anything!) it was bad, Kinshasa or not, its a tough call to say we wait an extra 1 hour on the ground!! let alone lets hold for an extra 20 minutes for things to improve. I have landed in Kin, and no I AM NOT PROUD or joking to say that the no 2 engine flamed out in the taxi to the parking bay.. Lear 25, missed approach followed by visuall at 30 ' and 1 mile circuit...............
Have given up that sh1t now and fly proper a/c now.... never again. I feel and hope we all learn.
4g
