Do you wish to declare an emergency?
Thread Starter
Do you wish to declare an emergency?
The C150 down at FACT refers (and umpteen similar incidents). Without opening the debate about why light aircraft seem so prone to running dry, can I ask about what happens when you declare an emergency to ATC? It seems ATC are not interested in your plight until this formal declaration is made - witness the Avianca B707 accident in NY state in exactly these circumstances. Has anything changed in procedures since that tragic & apparently avoidable accident?
If declaring an emergency results in a brigade of fire trucks and men in silver suits lining the runway of the field I am trying to reach with low fuel, then I would say this equates to the 4th most useless thing in aviation. Can the ATCs out there advise what exactly the emergency does for the pilot?
If it were me, I think I would find it most handy to have a private frequency and an experienced controller to verify positions and to discuss available options for a precationary landing. I think most weekend pilots find it hard to undo the "getting home" mindset (especially with pax) but once the tough decision is made, the training kicks in and they should be able to make a safe precautionary landing.
Another useful habit could be to enter the times of your Pan & Maydays noted on the flight log at take off, along with the usual nav points, based on the projected fuel burn.
Any comments from you more experienced and more qualified folk out there? Thanks
If declaring an emergency results in a brigade of fire trucks and men in silver suits lining the runway of the field I am trying to reach with low fuel, then I would say this equates to the 4th most useless thing in aviation. Can the ATCs out there advise what exactly the emergency does for the pilot?
If it were me, I think I would find it most handy to have a private frequency and an experienced controller to verify positions and to discuss available options for a precationary landing. I think most weekend pilots find it hard to undo the "getting home" mindset (especially with pax) but once the tough decision is made, the training kicks in and they should be able to make a safe precautionary landing.
Another useful habit could be to enter the times of your Pan & Maydays noted on the flight log at take off, along with the usual nav points, based on the projected fuel burn.
Any comments from you more experienced and more qualified folk out there? Thanks
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ok,
In my experience ATC are very accomodating when you call a mayday, there job is to institute SAR and clear traffic, if the cessna pilot called early enough with his call sign maybe he wouldv'e got direct routing to the airfield and landed safely, any emergency has priority clearance, what more do you want? A designated frequency, try 121.5? Or if you want 243, they are the international distress frequencies which you can use, atc do monitor them all the time.
Do you in an emergency genuinly have time to write down pan and mayday calls? I'd rather fly the plane and make it a safer landing etc...
Hope that helps a bit
Cheers
In my experience ATC are very accomodating when you call a mayday, there job is to institute SAR and clear traffic, if the cessna pilot called early enough with his call sign maybe he wouldv'e got direct routing to the airfield and landed safely, any emergency has priority clearance, what more do you want? A designated frequency, try 121.5? Or if you want 243, they are the international distress frequencies which you can use, atc do monitor them all the time.
Do you in an emergency genuinly have time to write down pan and mayday calls? I'd rather fly the plane and make it a safer landing etc...
Hope that helps a bit
Cheers
Thread Starter
Thanks waiter,
Pan/mayday - the idea would be to note the anticipated time of the calls in advance on the flight log (not when you make them). In other words, your flight log would be indicating to you at such and such a time "You are making a pan call in 2 hours time & and a mayday in 2hrs 45 minutes, but your destination is only 30 mins away, so no problem"
Pan/mayday - the idea would be to note the anticipated time of the calls in advance on the flight log (not when you make them). In other words, your flight log would be indicating to you at such and such a time "You are making a pan call in 2 hours time & and a mayday in 2hrs 45 minutes, but your destination is only 30 mins away, so no problem"
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James,
The Avianca B707 incident was that the crew NEGLECTED to call an emergency. The PIC remains the commander. Had that commander called an emergency, he would've been given priority to land. They had the luxury of a Shotgun driver, FE to also assist with fuel calc's, but they thought they would make it, also ending up with excess air in the tanks.
The ATC cannot "smell" a crisis unless you wish to make him attent of it. If you're going to block his runway and endanger other scheduled traffic from reaching their destinations, he may want the mess cleared up quicker, hence the call to the emergency services.
Some airspace does not allow for a major discussion regarding the extent of your emergency and your various options on the RT, that's why you're the commander, and he/she the controller.
Clear enough, mate?
MF
Ps. Good luck with your future career in the pointy part.
The Avianca B707 incident was that the crew NEGLECTED to call an emergency. The PIC remains the commander. Had that commander called an emergency, he would've been given priority to land. They had the luxury of a Shotgun driver, FE to also assist with fuel calc's, but they thought they would make it, also ending up with excess air in the tanks.
The ATC cannot "smell" a crisis unless you wish to make him attent of it. If you're going to block his runway and endanger other scheduled traffic from reaching their destinations, he may want the mess cleared up quicker, hence the call to the emergency services.
Some airspace does not allow for a major discussion regarding the extent of your emergency and your various options on the RT, that's why you're the commander, and he/she the controller.
Clear enough, mate?
MF
Ps. Good luck with your future career in the pointy part.
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Maybe Goldfish can weigh in here if I am wrong.
Declaring and emergency or aircraft in difficulty (MAYDAY & PAN) over RT immediately starts certain procedures in ATC (INCERFA, ALERFA AND DITRESFA). This can become a pretty expensive exercise for services and other traffic. Not all emergencies are within the circuit.
You will find that ATC will declare the emergency for you if they think the situation is serious enough (as with overdue aircraft, where they carry responsibility as per flightplan alerting action).
Otherwise, they do not know how serious your situation might be and will not reroute traffic or start search and rescue alerting action until you declare an emergency.
The procedure is well thought out and ALL the pilot needs to do is say the magic words MAYDAY or PAN and ATC will coordinate the rest.
The question "Are you declaring an emergency?" should be an indication to you, the pilot, that you have not been clear enough about your requirements and you should try again.
If you return after take-off, you could say " We are returning due to xxx and will not require any assistance". This would be crystal clear. Another option would be "PAN, PAN, PAN" with your details. This is also crystal clear.
If you required priority and pranged because you did not declare your need clearly using the accepted format, you certainly cannot blame ATC.
Without knowing the details of the CPT prang, fuel emergencies can usually be seen by the pilot a long way off, and should not require a MAYDAY.
Declaring and emergency or aircraft in difficulty (MAYDAY & PAN) over RT immediately starts certain procedures in ATC (INCERFA, ALERFA AND DITRESFA). This can become a pretty expensive exercise for services and other traffic. Not all emergencies are within the circuit.
You will find that ATC will declare the emergency for you if they think the situation is serious enough (as with overdue aircraft, where they carry responsibility as per flightplan alerting action).
Otherwise, they do not know how serious your situation might be and will not reroute traffic or start search and rescue alerting action until you declare an emergency.
The procedure is well thought out and ALL the pilot needs to do is say the magic words MAYDAY or PAN and ATC will coordinate the rest.
The question "Are you declaring an emergency?" should be an indication to you, the pilot, that you have not been clear enough about your requirements and you should try again.
If you return after take-off, you could say " We are returning due to xxx and will not require any assistance". This would be crystal clear. Another option would be "PAN, PAN, PAN" with your details. This is also crystal clear.
If you required priority and pranged because you did not declare your need clearly using the accepted format, you certainly cannot blame ATC.
Without knowing the details of the CPT prang, fuel emergencies can usually be seen by the pilot a long way off, and should not require a MAYDAY.
Gatvol
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Could it be that declaring an emergency is the ONLY key to unlocking all services related to just that thing.
Some Pilots seem leary of the end result should it not be deemed a real emergency. Reports are generated, etc which his/her employer may find embarrassing enough to send yon pilot searching for different employment.
That reluctance, Im sure, has cost some their lives. Me, I was unemployed when I got this job, if things start going to Sxxx, Im yelling for help........
Some Pilots seem leary of the end result should it not be deemed a real emergency. Reports are generated, etc which his/her employer may find embarrassing enough to send yon pilot searching for different employment.
That reluctance, Im sure, has cost some their lives. Me, I was unemployed when I got this job, if things start going to Sxxx, Im yelling for help........
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In my opinion, its the unfounded fear of the consequences that causes this problem. Many pilots are more afraid of being blamed for the emergency, than actually dealing with it. There is definately some hint of truth in the fact that, yes, there will be questions, and yes there will be reports. I just think that reports and questions are endlessly more pleasant than funerals and obituaries. If in doubt, declare, even if its just a pan, because then you will have the support, and the attention, of someone who can genuinely assist. If it turns out to be less serious than originally assumed, good for you, write your report and live to fly another day. Trust me here, even just having the voice of a concerned controller, to accompany you on your way down, does wonders for the panic factor.....
Dont fear the consequences of declaring an emergency, even if it is YOUR FAULT. Embarrasment beats death every single time as an option.
Dont fear the consequences of declaring an emergency, even if it is YOUR FAULT. Embarrasment beats death every single time as an option.
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Oz, the problem may lie in the word "emergency".
Consider a fairly frequent scenario at FACT where an inbound light arrives at the zone boundary knowing he/she is getting lowish on gas but not so low as to have an emergency....yet.
The poor soul arrives at a busy time and is told to hold outside the zone for 10 minutes, then maybe another 10 minutes and suddenly what was 30 minutes endurance is now down to 10. All very avoidable of course, but s**t happens.
Putting our seasoned professional selves into the PPL's position, being asked "are you declaring an emergency" is likely to sound intimidating, rather than helpful.... sort of like being told off by the headmaster (I know that's not what is meant, but think of the amateur pilot). The word "emergency" may frighten the soul into one or into denial.
Maybe there is another way ATC can help defuse the potential tension in the cockpit...with words, for example "do you need any assistance" or something more accommodating.
Consider a fairly frequent scenario at FACT where an inbound light arrives at the zone boundary knowing he/she is getting lowish on gas but not so low as to have an emergency....yet.
The poor soul arrives at a busy time and is told to hold outside the zone for 10 minutes, then maybe another 10 minutes and suddenly what was 30 minutes endurance is now down to 10. All very avoidable of course, but s**t happens.
Putting our seasoned professional selves into the PPL's position, being asked "are you declaring an emergency" is likely to sound intimidating, rather than helpful.... sort of like being told off by the headmaster (I know that's not what is meant, but think of the amateur pilot). The word "emergency" may frighten the soul into one or into denial.
Maybe there is another way ATC can help defuse the potential tension in the cockpit...with words, for example "do you need any assistance" or something more accommodating.
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mmm some very interesting comments,
ICAO have 2 words that are to be used in such cases. As nugpot says they trigger certain actions and are also there to alert other pilots on the freq that someone else has a problem.
You will be amazed at how many different pilots use different expressions and expect the ATC to understand that they have an amergency. Use the correct term and you will not have any problems. Use AMBIGIOUS terms and you can expect to not get the things you want.
Jolly bucc you should also realise that when you get here with 30 mins fuel you also have to have RESERVE/CONTINGENCY fuel and that should allow you to hold and still divert to you alternate airfield. You will be amazed how many pilots do not take this into consideration and arrive at FACT with fuel that amounts to the total time they have left to fly! Some of them have no clue about alternate airfields, routings and fuel requirements. Ask me I know - you ask a pilot, at night, who is doing circuit training what his alternate field is and they will quite happily tell you they do not have/need one as they are staying in the circuit! My word wuch ignortant pilots - what happens if the runway lights fail - they WILL HAVE TO DIVERT and then what?????????? These sort of things are not even thought of by the average PPL, let me tell you!
Nugpot certainly speaks a lot of the truth and is mighty close to the fact - james ozzie you should come and sit in a tower and hear some of the things pilots say when they have a problem - no wonder some of my colleagues ask if the pilot is declaring an emergency!
As to the fire engines, i can you right now james ozzie is they type of pilot that wonders why they are there, when he thinks they are not needed. It happens to be an ICAO requirement - and just imagine the consequences if the airfield staff knew you have a problem and did not have their vehicles in place and it took them 2 mins to get to you after you have landed. You will be the first to complain if they are not there when they are needed. Better to be forwarned and forearmed and ready for any potential problem. Furthermore james, it is much easier to have the pilot stay on the freq - the last thing you want is to give them another freq, they write it down incorrectly and you lose all comms with them. It is easier to get rid of the other pilots. Shame the poor pilot has a problem the last thing you want to do is to (unnecessarily) increase their workload and have him going freq hopping.
A fuel emergency might not require a mayday if you are a long way out, but rather keep ATC in the picture and up to date, so if it gets worse, we can make a plan straight away and everyone is on the loop.
As to the C150 that ran out of fuel, how can you expect to arrive at an international airfield on a VFR flight with no flight plan, duruing a busy period and not have contingency fuel to play with should you have to wait. That to me is just rank bad airmanship and that show gross irresponsibility and that person should be stopped from flying before he does it again and it has worse(r) consequences........
I have had only 2 maydays in 20 odd years of controlling and it was an absolute pleasure - everyone knew what to do - the pilots did the right thing - we were ready for him - other pilots generally shut up on the freq and some were willing to help. It certainly was a non-event. You should then see how we struggle to get it out of some pilots when they tell us they have a problem and wont talk. It is better to declare the phase, tell us in correct terms what is wrong, let us gear up the emergency services and reduce the workload for the pilot and be properly prepared for when the a/c arrives..........It also, as IR pirate says, lets us know you have a problem and we can relax and devote out full attention to the problem pilot and a/c and help to relax them and provide them with out undivided attention.
If you declare MAYDAY and there is no answer, leave a message and we will call you back......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ICAO have 2 words that are to be used in such cases. As nugpot says they trigger certain actions and are also there to alert other pilots on the freq that someone else has a problem.
You will be amazed at how many different pilots use different expressions and expect the ATC to understand that they have an amergency. Use the correct term and you will not have any problems. Use AMBIGIOUS terms and you can expect to not get the things you want.
Jolly bucc you should also realise that when you get here with 30 mins fuel you also have to have RESERVE/CONTINGENCY fuel and that should allow you to hold and still divert to you alternate airfield. You will be amazed how many pilots do not take this into consideration and arrive at FACT with fuel that amounts to the total time they have left to fly! Some of them have no clue about alternate airfields, routings and fuel requirements. Ask me I know - you ask a pilot, at night, who is doing circuit training what his alternate field is and they will quite happily tell you they do not have/need one as they are staying in the circuit! My word wuch ignortant pilots - what happens if the runway lights fail - they WILL HAVE TO DIVERT and then what?????????? These sort of things are not even thought of by the average PPL, let me tell you!
Nugpot certainly speaks a lot of the truth and is mighty close to the fact - james ozzie you should come and sit in a tower and hear some of the things pilots say when they have a problem - no wonder some of my colleagues ask if the pilot is declaring an emergency!
As to the fire engines, i can you right now james ozzie is they type of pilot that wonders why they are there, when he thinks they are not needed. It happens to be an ICAO requirement - and just imagine the consequences if the airfield staff knew you have a problem and did not have their vehicles in place and it took them 2 mins to get to you after you have landed. You will be the first to complain if they are not there when they are needed. Better to be forwarned and forearmed and ready for any potential problem. Furthermore james, it is much easier to have the pilot stay on the freq - the last thing you want is to give them another freq, they write it down incorrectly and you lose all comms with them. It is easier to get rid of the other pilots. Shame the poor pilot has a problem the last thing you want to do is to (unnecessarily) increase their workload and have him going freq hopping.
A fuel emergency might not require a mayday if you are a long way out, but rather keep ATC in the picture and up to date, so if it gets worse, we can make a plan straight away and everyone is on the loop.
As to the C150 that ran out of fuel, how can you expect to arrive at an international airfield on a VFR flight with no flight plan, duruing a busy period and not have contingency fuel to play with should you have to wait. That to me is just rank bad airmanship and that show gross irresponsibility and that person should be stopped from flying before he does it again and it has worse(r) consequences........
I have had only 2 maydays in 20 odd years of controlling and it was an absolute pleasure - everyone knew what to do - the pilots did the right thing - we were ready for him - other pilots generally shut up on the freq and some were willing to help. It certainly was a non-event. You should then see how we struggle to get it out of some pilots when they tell us they have a problem and wont talk. It is better to declare the phase, tell us in correct terms what is wrong, let us gear up the emergency services and reduce the workload for the pilot and be properly prepared for when the a/c arrives..........It also, as IR pirate says, lets us know you have a problem and we can relax and devote out full attention to the problem pilot and a/c and help to relax them and provide them with out undivided attention.
If you declare MAYDAY and there is no answer, leave a message and we will call you back......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MF, the commander of the Avianca 707 did ask the FO to declare an emergency. The problem was that the commander didn't speak English and the FO was afraid to use the Pan or Mayday words. When they got standard holds after the missed approach, the commander knew they were not getting priority. So he asked the FO in Spanish twice more whether he had in fact declared an emergency. The FO (wrongly) said he had done so. A simple Mayday would most likely have saved those lives.
I agree with JollyB, the word emergency thrown in when someone might not yet have one is not helpful. It is a fact of life that distress calls are usually a last resort. In the UK you can call "fuel priority" to get a rapid inbound clearance, which means the same as Pan or Mayday to ATC but the bad word is expunged.
I agree with JollyB, the word emergency thrown in when someone might not yet have one is not helpful. It is a fact of life that distress calls are usually a last resort. In the UK you can call "fuel priority" to get a rapid inbound clearance, which means the same as Pan or Mayday to ATC but the bad word is expunged.
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118.9
Thanks for filling in the details, I posted just off the top of my cranium...
Fact remains.....SPEAK to the skygods (even if it is in Spanish)! Hopefully the other guys on frequency will listen too.
Wishing everyone a mayday-free flying career!
MF
Ps. Solly built a little shrine in the barn around the old SALM Veiligheids Plakaat/Poster I gave him. It reads: Beplanning voorkom Spanning!
Thanks for filling in the details, I posted just off the top of my cranium...
Fact remains.....SPEAK to the skygods (even if it is in Spanish)! Hopefully the other guys on frequency will listen too.
Wishing everyone a mayday-free flying career!
MF
Ps. Solly built a little shrine in the barn around the old SALM Veiligheids Plakaat/Poster I gave him. It reads: Beplanning voorkom Spanning!
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone
Thank you, folks, who took the trouble to offer some interesting and useful advice - advice we hope not to use of course...
The point of the dreaded "E" word is valid I think, especially with weekender pilots. Good point made that with a properly worded Pan or Mayday call, the "E" word is not really required.
Stay safe and thank you
(now just sort out the cricket..!)
The point of the dreaded "E" word is valid I think, especially with weekender pilots. Good point made that with a properly worded Pan or Mayday call, the "E" word is not really required.
Stay safe and thank you
(now just sort out the cricket..!)
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Ozzie James:
I haven't got a clue what you mean by this. An emergency is not something that can be pre-planned. There are t/o briefings before departure: In the event of an engine faillure after V1, we come back to XXXX, dumptime XX minutes, or we need a t/o alternate which will be XXXX no dumptime, etc,etc... Or wx is bad at XXXX, we'll try 1 approach and then go to alternate which is XXXX, requiring XX amount of fuel, etc,etc,etc. Planning a flight is all you need to do, take it worse case scenario every flight. Just plan ahead. Wether it's your C-150 or B744....
Goldfish Jaap,
I've had a few times a problem with our aircraft in and out of Joburg. Twice a flap problem. Told ATC the nature of the problem and told them what we want to do. They helped out as much as they could, great stuff. As you said, maybe us boys should be more clear about our problems so you guys don't have to guess. But said that, an airplane in with problems (not an emergency) should, in my opinion, be given priority.
Don't even want to comment on the Avianca crash, guess ICAO is loosing slack with now 6 offical ICAO languages. We should asked them to implement Afrikaans next....
Another useful habit could be to enter the times of your Pan & Maydays noted on the flight log at take off, along with the usual nav points, based on the projected fuel burn.
Goldfish Jaap,
I've had a few times a problem with our aircraft in and out of Joburg. Twice a flap problem. Told ATC the nature of the problem and told them what we want to do. They helped out as much as they could, great stuff. As you said, maybe us boys should be more clear about our problems so you guys don't have to guess. But said that, an airplane in with problems (not an emergency) should, in my opinion, be given priority.
Don't even want to comment on the Avianca crash, guess ICAO is loosing slack with now 6 offical ICAO languages. We should asked them to implement Afrikaans next....
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But said that, an airplane in with problems (not an emergency) should, in my opinion, be given priority.
We were informed by approach just after T/O that one of the a/c on the ramp thought that we had burst a tyre on rotation. We had more than enough fuel and would potentially close the runway for a few minutes if pieces of tyre came off on landing. I think that ATC then can let you hold while they get the other inbounds on the ground. The pilot can always request priority if he does not agree with ATC's assessment.
Obviously if you are low on fuel, there is no question.
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Oz, about the cricket..... ouch!! Your mates showed how an emergency can be created in the mind. 0 for 29 and AB knows that if you stretch for a short spin ball and miss you get stumped; so what does he do - 1 for 29. Now the Ozzies loudly declare an emergency and guess what, there suddenly is one - the top order fall like flies. Funny old lark this game of the mind.
Just like flying, some (rightly) tell you that you must stick to procedures and then (wrongly) believe there will be no deviation - but alas homo sapiens as a species has been fallible for the past 26,000 years. The viscera often overrides the logic, it's programmed that way.
Just like flying, some (rightly) tell you that you must stick to procedures and then (wrongly) believe there will be no deviation - but alas homo sapiens as a species has been fallible for the past 26,000 years. The viscera often overrides the logic, it's programmed that way.
Thread Starter
Thanks Maurice
"pre-planned emergency" - well, I think a fuel emergency can and should be planned (!!)
As you would know, if you fly a light aircraft, you always have a flight log in front of you to monitor the flight. The log has all the nav points and legs entered and after take off you write in the ETAs for each nav point & monitor them against ATAs (yes, so what is the point?) The point is that if you know you have, say, 4.5 hours endurance you can enter the time on your flight log when you must make a Pan as well as the time when the cabin goes quiet, say 45 mins later.
Given that light aircraft running dry is often due to weather diversions, unexpected headwinds or getting lost, having this time entered might be a good reminder to the frazzled pilot that the game is about to get even more serious and that it is time to abandon the original plan and to think seriously about getting down, not getting there. It is merely to assist with that change of mindset that I raised earlier.
But it is only a thought
"pre-planned emergency" - well, I think a fuel emergency can and should be planned (!!)
As you would know, if you fly a light aircraft, you always have a flight log in front of you to monitor the flight. The log has all the nav points and legs entered and after take off you write in the ETAs for each nav point & monitor them against ATAs (yes, so what is the point?) The point is that if you know you have, say, 4.5 hours endurance you can enter the time on your flight log when you must make a Pan as well as the time when the cabin goes quiet, say 45 mins later.
Given that light aircraft running dry is often due to weather diversions, unexpected headwinds or getting lost, having this time entered might be a good reminder to the frazzled pilot that the game is about to get even more serious and that it is time to abandon the original plan and to think seriously about getting down, not getting there. It is merely to assist with that change of mindset that I raised earlier.
But it is only a thought
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Would you like to declare a DISTRESS, or an emergency, a small one or a big one, a real or perceived one, fuel or electrical or even hydraulic?
Should your Radio be U/S, press.......alternatively wait for the controller who is now ready to take your call.
"Hello!"
Should your Radio be U/S, press.......alternatively wait for the controller who is now ready to take your call.
"Hello!"
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It had to happen.......
Hi there Gents and Ladybirds too....
Well, not being a fan of things ironic........guess what I had to do today.....
I had to declare a fuel emergency. Due to a long list of factors, some my fault, some beyond my control, I came way way too close to running out of fuel in a very bad place.The controllers informed us to hold for 30 mins, which I could not comply with....I first used the ," request priority handling, " prayer, which was not really answered, as they did not feel the sting of the E word....I then uttered the ," I am infringing on my safety fuel," prayer......haha, continue holding....I then had to utter those fateful words: " xxx is declaring a fuel emergency" I hated dreaded and cringed, and blushed....BUT.....I am here to tell you the tale. All this was in solid IMC, heavy icing, and about 12 planes in the hold. Yes there were reports, yes I felt like a royal toss, and yes, I wasted hundreds of liters of other peoples fuel. To any of you that I might have put out today, thanks for your patience. Its really appreciated. So now, to get to the point...
Once I had declared an emergency, things changed drastically. We got the priority, we skipped the holding process, and we were looked after all the way down, by concerned, professional controllers, thanks to you all too. When we broke at minima, I have to tell you that I havent been so happy to see the ground in a long time. Some comments made after landing by other pilots who were in the air at the time, included, " man, you needed big balls to do that....." and " you must have been so embarassed", etc etc. True I am embarassed, but not because I had to declare, I'm embarassed that I got myself into that situation. No it didnt take big balls, it was the ONLY way that we were going to survive this flight.
I hope that someone can find a lesson in here, thats why I put it here, not to prove anything.
The starter of this thread is someone I would like to thank, because the one thought I was fighting with throughout this episode, was that it would be pretty F#$%g stupid to run out of juice after I had tried so hard to get this exact message across in my previous posting.
Fly safe, and have have a happy new year........i need a strong one
Well, not being a fan of things ironic........guess what I had to do today.....
I had to declare a fuel emergency. Due to a long list of factors, some my fault, some beyond my control, I came way way too close to running out of fuel in a very bad place.The controllers informed us to hold for 30 mins, which I could not comply with....I first used the ," request priority handling, " prayer, which was not really answered, as they did not feel the sting of the E word....I then uttered the ," I am infringing on my safety fuel," prayer......haha, continue holding....I then had to utter those fateful words: " xxx is declaring a fuel emergency" I hated dreaded and cringed, and blushed....BUT.....I am here to tell you the tale. All this was in solid IMC, heavy icing, and about 12 planes in the hold. Yes there were reports, yes I felt like a royal toss, and yes, I wasted hundreds of liters of other peoples fuel. To any of you that I might have put out today, thanks for your patience. Its really appreciated. So now, to get to the point...
Once I had declared an emergency, things changed drastically. We got the priority, we skipped the holding process, and we were looked after all the way down, by concerned, professional controllers, thanks to you all too. When we broke at minima, I have to tell you that I havent been so happy to see the ground in a long time. Some comments made after landing by other pilots who were in the air at the time, included, " man, you needed big balls to do that....." and " you must have been so embarassed", etc etc. True I am embarassed, but not because I had to declare, I'm embarassed that I got myself into that situation. No it didnt take big balls, it was the ONLY way that we were going to survive this flight.
I hope that someone can find a lesson in here, thats why I put it here, not to prove anything.
The starter of this thread is someone I would like to thank, because the one thought I was fighting with throughout this episode, was that it would be pretty F#$%g stupid to run out of juice after I had tried so hard to get this exact message across in my previous posting.
Fly safe, and have have a happy new year........i need a strong one
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Nearly out of burning dust ? Call for help.
Well, IRP, many, many congratulations on getting through that exceptionally difficult situation safe and sound and, particularly, for having the professionalism to tell us about it. Maybe your description will help others to make up their minds correctly in similar circumstances. I hope so.
Quite a few people have been in a similar situation (I ain’t saying nuthin' mind you) and have dithered about it, sometimes with tragic results. Every one makes mistakes, everyone, no matter how exalted. Some of us get away with it. Never mind the cringing, remember everyone that the laws of science are immutable, so get the PAN PAN PAN call out as soon as it is obviously needed.
I even know of a very famous name, recently bandied about on this forum who once was forced to land on a mountain, but that that was all a very long time ago …
My point is, don’t delay, call for help and use the proper words. Believe me, the ATC people are just waiting to help you, as well as all the other brothers and sisters out there.
oTd
Quite a few people have been in a similar situation (I ain’t saying nuthin' mind you) and have dithered about it, sometimes with tragic results. Every one makes mistakes, everyone, no matter how exalted. Some of us get away with it. Never mind the cringing, remember everyone that the laws of science are immutable, so get the PAN PAN PAN call out as soon as it is obviously needed.
I even know of a very famous name, recently bandied about on this forum who once was forced to land on a mountain, but that that was all a very long time ago …
My point is, don’t delay, call for help and use the proper words. Believe me, the ATC people are just waiting to help you, as well as all the other brothers and sisters out there.
oTd
