CAA Rumour
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CAA Rumour
I heard that the CAA will change the COM Exam rules. you will not have to worry about passing 3 subjects or passing all 8 subjects in 5 sittings, Dont know if its true or not but if it is more accidents are going to occur in South African Airspace.
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I'm sure there are lots of guys that will agree with me on this: The CPL exams have absolutely nothing to do with how well someone flies. I mean, how much of the theory does one actually apply to actual flying?
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Gatvol
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Lets see..Partial passing of Exams, Gold Wings overnight, maybe next it should be one out of three checkrides have to be successful.....
Standards, boys and girls......
.
Microflyer, they may not be the indicator of how good one is as a Pilot, but they at least eliminate those that we are pretty certain wont be good. Microflyers, quite frankly, dot the hillsides more than the norm and Im sure some of that has to do with their lack of knowledge..
Standards, boys and girls......
.
CPL exams have absolutely nothing to do with how well someone flies. I mean, how much of the theory does one actually apply to actual flying?
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Ok, I'm confused B Sousa - how did you get to comparing the CPL exams with Microlight Pilots? Let's compare apples with apples. No point in attempting to justify your argument by disparaging what I said.
The original post read as follows: "...more accidents are going to occur in South African Airspace." as a result of removing the partial passes rule.
I disagree with the statement.
I thought someone's flying ability is tested by a practical flight test? Which truly reflects a person's ability to pilot an aircraft? Exams or a Practical Flight Test? I believe the latter.
Let's be realistic.
The original post read as follows: "...more accidents are going to occur in South African Airspace." as a result of removing the partial passes rule.
I disagree with the statement.
I thought someone's flying ability is tested by a practical flight test? Which truly reflects a person's ability to pilot an aircraft? Exams or a Practical Flight Test? I believe the latter.
Let's be realistic.
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Hi Guys - greetings from Nigeria(%$@@#%%$)
Bert....nobody said anything about partial exams, as you well know our system here is about 30 times more difficult to pass than the FAA com albeit 32 times more antiquated. I mean "kak" you still gotta learn plotting, NDB's and heaps other useless info that I have never once used in flying. Its a lot of bull**** but a lot more work goes into it than buying a book with the questions and answers in it.....but its ok I know you are depressive!!!!!!!
Pepsi....whether you pass one at a time or all together...so what??? you pass you pass. You gotta do the same amount of work at the end of the day. Seeing your very next post was about jobs as you are about to get you comm, I detect a tinge of sour grapes about having had to pass 3 at a time.
Don't start off like that. You passed well done...now stick it out get a job and i wish you luck doing it.....and many hours safe flying.
PS. VOKDUBE
Bert....nobody said anything about partial exams, as you well know our system here is about 30 times more difficult to pass than the FAA com albeit 32 times more antiquated. I mean "kak" you still gotta learn plotting, NDB's and heaps other useless info that I have never once used in flying. Its a lot of bull**** but a lot more work goes into it than buying a book with the questions and answers in it.....but its ok I know you are depressive!!!!!!!
Pepsi....whether you pass one at a time or all together...so what??? you pass you pass. You gotta do the same amount of work at the end of the day. Seeing your very next post was about jobs as you are about to get you comm, I detect a tinge of sour grapes about having had to pass 3 at a time.
Don't start off like that. You passed well done...now stick it out get a job and i wish you luck doing it.....and many hours safe flying.
PS. VOKDUBE
Gatvol
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Somehow I knew I would get a rise out of you.. Maybe no exams and if someone is versed in the working of a 747-400 a practical would do. He/She can learn the Rules/Procedures etc on the way to Europe with the PAX in the back...
Lowering the standards will not doubt be reflected in the Accident/Incident statistics.
One may be able to Rotax through the sky in remote areas unconciously, but when one encounters things such as Airspace, Rules, other Aircraft etc, it certainly does require some knowledge. Flying is more than getting up and down without breaking to many parts.
I do agree that its foolish to have to pass all exams at one time. As you say a pass is a pass. An example is the Air Law, once passed it is largely forgotten. Most that I know including myself would have to bone up to pass it again.... Maybe it should be a requirement every couple years to keep updated.
Could not agree more....
Capt P Now I have to be depressive......?? I dont admit to being the brightest candle on the cake and I think I did miss a bit of micro flyers point. Got it now with your eloquant help....
By the way where do you buy Gold Wings??
Lowering the standards will not doubt be reflected in the Accident/Incident statistics.
One may be able to Rotax through the sky in remote areas unconciously, but when one encounters things such as Airspace, Rules, other Aircraft etc, it certainly does require some knowledge. Flying is more than getting up and down without breaking to many parts.
I do agree that its foolish to have to pass all exams at one time. As you say a pass is a pass. An example is the Air Law, once passed it is largely forgotten. Most that I know including myself would have to bone up to pass it again.... Maybe it should be a requirement every couple years to keep updated.
our system here is about 30 times more difficult to pass than the FAA com albeit 32 times more antiquated. I mean "kak" you still gotta learn plotting, NDB's and heaps other useless info that I have never once used in flying.
Capt P Now I have to be depressive......?? I dont admit to being the brightest candle on the cake and I think I did miss a bit of micro flyers point. Got it now with your eloquant help....
By the way where do you buy Gold Wings??
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Bert,
You can't buy them. Read this in political lingo. You have to be in the right Mbeki, be a bit Shaiky, Zelda seen (Madiba's spokes ma'am), Agsies Bangat (like in Aziz Pahad), being a bit of a Whingie biekie (like in Winnie M the way she was with Arnie S 
), MOre Shaik here and there, take a small Chikane left and NOT right (top cover with the help of a Reverend) and you've got it. Golden wings AND the commission delivered to your doorstep. And either way, the SA taxpayer goes into another fit of puking. Double pay with SAA and the SAAF? SAA = Speedy Affirmative Action. SAAF = Soon Another Aviation Fatility? 
By the way where do you buy Gold Wings??
), MOre Shaik here and there, take a small Chikane left and NOT right (top cover with the help of a Reverend) and you've got it. Golden wings AND the commission delivered to your doorstep. And either way, the SA taxpayer goes into another fit of puking. Double pay with SAA and the SAAF? SAA = Speedy Affirmative Action. SAAF = Soon Another Aviation Fatility?
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Back to the original topic. Exams are not realy relative but do act as a filter. If you want to maintain standards then maybe pay a bit more attention to practical flight tests. These are not always up to the standard they should be (this of course differs from instructor to destructor). As far as the FAA gose its all well and fine saying there written tests are easy to study for but how about that flight test??????
P.S. use nugget and you too could get "gold wings"
P.S. use nugget and you too could get "gold wings"
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IF the rumour is true, in one way its a good thing and in another its bad.
I beleive, and Im sure some of you would agree with me, that by eliminating the 3 pass rule a pupil would be able to retain the information for longer. The current system seems to be based purely on who can learn the most info in the shortest possible time. Learn not retain being the key word here. Break it up into smaller blocks and the student would be able to retain the info for longer.
On the other hand, it does definately weed out the incapable. Lets face it most of the info we learn for our exams we never use again but it does show that the pupil has some form of intelligence and ability to learn and process large quantities of info certainly skills we need for flying.
My 2 c worth
I beleive, and Im sure some of you would agree with me, that by eliminating the 3 pass rule a pupil would be able to retain the information for longer. The current system seems to be based purely on who can learn the most info in the shortest possible time. Learn not retain being the key word here. Break it up into smaller blocks and the student would be able to retain the info for longer.
On the other hand, it does definately weed out the incapable. Lets face it most of the info we learn for our exams we never use again but it does show that the pupil has some form of intelligence and ability to learn and process large quantities of info certainly skills we need for flying.
My 2 c worth
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This rumour is actually true, I believe Chief Treveor signed it before he left, but it has not yet been implimented (except for certain CAA emplyees.
)
In my opinion it is a good thing for a number of reasons, I peronally know of quite a number of CPL's that have passed all the subjects on more than one occasion but did not carry any credits because of the partial pass system. Furthermore, in the current system the candidates short term memory is being tested, not neccesarily his/her knowledge.
If the new system is implimented, the candidate can now fully internalise the knowledge and thus actually understand the theory.
)In my opinion it is a good thing for a number of reasons, I peronally know of quite a number of CPL's that have passed all the subjects on more than one occasion but did not carry any credits because of the partial pass system. Furthermore, in the current system the candidates short term memory is being tested, not neccesarily his/her knowledge.
If the new system is implimented, the candidate can now fully internalise the knowledge and thus actually understand the theory.
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Pepsipilot, putting your first statement together is like saying that dubious nosipicking in church as a choirboy, could land you golden wings on a prayer!
BL, see you're back after a silence, have you learned to memorise and to apply the relationship between the coefficient of lift and the coeeficient of drag? You will also be right if you thought that density has to do with both.
Some flight schools, also supply questions and answers, and from what I've heard, a combination of three would give you startling answers, some even with a guide of the correct answers and with the corrrect answers to answer!
But then I also recall leaked papers incident....anyway it appears to be becoming easier, soon perhaps a group mark could be introduced, Curriculum Comm Pilot 2006, perhaps?
The soup thickens to become a gravy! Pap's up!
MF
BL, see you're back after a silence, have you learned to memorise and to apply the relationship between the coefficient of lift and the coeeficient of drag? You will also be right if you thought that density has to do with both.
Some flight schools, also supply questions and answers, and from what I've heard, a combination of three would give you startling answers, some even with a guide of the correct answers and with the corrrect answers to answer!
But then I also recall leaked papers incident....anyway it appears to be becoming easier, soon perhaps a group mark could be introduced, Curriculum Comm Pilot 2006, perhaps?
The soup thickens to become a gravy! Pap's up!
MF
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Change, What Change
The more things change the more they stay the same
Is it not amazing how a sector such as ours, the technologically most advanced in many respects remain so conservative. Well if I did, surely everyone else who wants to fly should do it also……
Pedagogy has long since moved pass the multiple choice, without a syllabus, pass 3 or go to jail crap we have to do for a CPL.
As Birdlady and others acknowledge, most of the information we stuff ourselves for the exams are lost on us when we go back to flying. Much of it irrelevant to daily flying, the rest presented in a dry and obtuse fashion with little emphasis on application to potential real life situations. No wonder everyone crams, cribs, etc. in order to get through.
And oh, those stolen papers, Well the 2000 saga did make for juicy headlines, even if then alleged theft took place in the Department of Transport before the CAA was established in 1988. That investigation revealed some interesting things about South Africa’s exam system and I would not be surprised if there are a number of nervous (by now quite established) pilots whose nerves do not jangle a bit when it comes to investigating “exam leaks” from the old DCA … but that is another story. And yes South Africa is not particularly unique in that regard, ask the UK CAA.
Whenever you have this absurd system of a limited number of “secret” questions, there will be an incentive to bust the system, even if it means students memorizing their questions and feeding it back to their flight school who then compiles it into a practice exam which you then pay for.
The way to go is to shift our emphasis to a STANDARD FLIGHT TESTS as (I hate to say this) the Americans do and concentrate of the flying skills.
The Knowledge skills are equally necessary, but should at CPL level be more related to practical application and can easy be reduced to thousands of questions (all of which you are unlikely to remember pat off) and then students can practice their knowledge skills and are unlikely and unable to get to “The” paper they will actually take during their exams.
As for passing three at one sitting – absolutely no pedagogical basis for this practice. Simply encourages cramming. The rumoured change is but a small step in the right direction.
Does it weed out those who are unwilling to work hard? Me thinks not. Most pilots do not claim to be the Einsteins of the world. In fact, experience has revealed that those with the highest aptitudes for doing well at flying are seldom at the top of the class academically. So this whole exercise is a test of skills and abilities not critical to flying safely.
My 2c worth. Now you can ask what did you do during the war?
Is it not amazing how a sector such as ours, the technologically most advanced in many respects remain so conservative. Well if I did, surely everyone else who wants to fly should do it also……
Pedagogy has long since moved pass the multiple choice, without a syllabus, pass 3 or go to jail crap we have to do for a CPL.
As Birdlady and others acknowledge, most of the information we stuff ourselves for the exams are lost on us when we go back to flying. Much of it irrelevant to daily flying, the rest presented in a dry and obtuse fashion with little emphasis on application to potential real life situations. No wonder everyone crams, cribs, etc. in order to get through.
And oh, those stolen papers, Well the 2000 saga did make for juicy headlines, even if then alleged theft took place in the Department of Transport before the CAA was established in 1988. That investigation revealed some interesting things about South Africa’s exam system and I would not be surprised if there are a number of nervous (by now quite established) pilots whose nerves do not jangle a bit when it comes to investigating “exam leaks” from the old DCA … but that is another story. And yes South Africa is not particularly unique in that regard, ask the UK CAA.
Whenever you have this absurd system of a limited number of “secret” questions, there will be an incentive to bust the system, even if it means students memorizing their questions and feeding it back to their flight school who then compiles it into a practice exam which you then pay for.
The way to go is to shift our emphasis to a STANDARD FLIGHT TESTS as (I hate to say this) the Americans do and concentrate of the flying skills.
The Knowledge skills are equally necessary, but should at CPL level be more related to practical application and can easy be reduced to thousands of questions (all of which you are unlikely to remember pat off) and then students can practice their knowledge skills and are unlikely and unable to get to “The” paper they will actually take during their exams.
As for passing three at one sitting – absolutely no pedagogical basis for this practice. Simply encourages cramming. The rumoured change is but a small step in the right direction.
Does it weed out those who are unwilling to work hard? Me thinks not. Most pilots do not claim to be the Einsteins of the world. In fact, experience has revealed that those with the highest aptitudes for doing well at flying are seldom at the top of the class academically. So this whole exercise is a test of skills and abilities not critical to flying safely.
My 2c worth. Now you can ask what did you do during the war?
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At you service Gunels
Anytime Anywhere ... if you ask nicely.
But then Alas I do not affect your lives so directly anymore.
Now I spend my time sorting others problems with the authorities.
But then Alas I do not affect your lives so directly anymore.
Now I spend my time sorting others problems with the authorities.
GunsssR4ever
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Well done Chief - keep up the good work.
Let us all have the vision for SAFE SKIES over SA !
PS: Let's see you more here please - a lot of catch up to do
Cheers
Gunss
(Keeping the skies safe over North and West Africa) ... uhmm trying
Let us all have the vision for SAFE SKIES over SA !
PS: Let's see you more here please - a lot of catch up to do
Cheers
Gunss
(Keeping the skies safe over North and West Africa) ... uhmm trying
Gatvol
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If the CAA Chief is in fact the CAA Chief, heres hoping he is watching the Huey Saga while at a distance. The outcome is extremely important to SA Aviation. No Response required.
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There was also a rumour at one time that plotting would be removed from the syllabus. Anyone know if that actually happened?? Progress is slow (like the CAA staff at this time of year;-)) in these parts but at least it happens!
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Comm exam changes
I have it on good authority that the comm. exam system will not be changed in the near future.
What will be changed however is the ability of DE,s to sign pilots out on aircraft, especially those in excess of 5700kg's with an hour(or part thereof) flight test and a quickie ground school.
I believe as of March, only certain establishments will be authorised to issue types on certain aircraft, and this will only be done after a full conversion and flight check.
People knock the FAA system, but to fly a 1900 you need to do 30 sim hours and a 5 day ground school. I know people first hand who have a P2 rating with less than an hour flight time on type.
I agree with less empasis on written exams and a much more stringent, and standardised flight test including an oral exam of an hour or two to see what the candidate really knows.
What will be changed however is the ability of DE,s to sign pilots out on aircraft, especially those in excess of 5700kg's with an hour(or part thereof) flight test and a quickie ground school.
I believe as of March, only certain establishments will be authorised to issue types on certain aircraft, and this will only be done after a full conversion and flight check.
People knock the FAA system, but to fly a 1900 you need to do 30 sim hours and a 5 day ground school. I know people first hand who have a P2 rating with less than an hour flight time on type.
I agree with less empasis on written exams and a much more stringent, and standardised flight test including an oral exam of an hour or two to see what the candidate really knows.