AMS Heli crash in Uniondale
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: close to the sun
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take a Breath, You see what I mean! Jeremy had all the ratings, but the aircraft was'nt certified. So the insurance will say; "How can a sensible pilot with all the bells & whistles break all the rules in the book by going IF in a non IF machine?" A recipe for disaster! Anyway enough of that! It remains a terrible tragedy!
John Stone was on TV last night defending his AMS, pilot training etc. I think a big investigation are going to be launched into his operation now. About time!
Gunnzzz, yes my man, I flew for the Red Cross as a volunteer in the good old days of the Aztec and the Navajo. (1975 to 1981) Sister Le Grange (wonderful person)was in charge at the time. John Stone was then the Chairman of the Good Hope Flying Club, and being a volunteer pilot himself, was just getting his fingers into the Red Cross. All pilots were volunteers those days, and their was great cameraderie amongst the lads. I don't know whether I 'm supposed to mention any names, but I think from my days there are still a few guys poling the PC 12 around. Prof. FG, JvdS, A.M. J.M. and D.L. Joihn Stone eventually became the boss, Sister le Grange had to take a back seat, and about 2 years ago, after a life long commitment to the Red Cross Airwing, they "retired" the "good ol sister".
The rest is history!
I've got nothing against the Red Cross and their operation, but as a Profit Generating, Commercial Business, they should comply with all the requirements as laid down in the "Blue Books", just like all other Commercial Operators, and not hide behind the disguise of a charity.
What's good for one, is good for the other! No precedents!
John Stone was on TV last night defending his AMS, pilot training etc. I think a big investigation are going to be launched into his operation now. About time!
Gunnzzz, yes my man, I flew for the Red Cross as a volunteer in the good old days of the Aztec and the Navajo. (1975 to 1981) Sister Le Grange (wonderful person)was in charge at the time. John Stone was then the Chairman of the Good Hope Flying Club, and being a volunteer pilot himself, was just getting his fingers into the Red Cross. All pilots were volunteers those days, and their was great cameraderie amongst the lads. I don't know whether I 'm supposed to mention any names, but I think from my days there are still a few guys poling the PC 12 around. Prof. FG, JvdS, A.M. J.M. and D.L. Joihn Stone eventually became the boss, Sister le Grange had to take a back seat, and about 2 years ago, after a life long commitment to the Red Cross Airwing, they "retired" the "good ol sister".
The rest is history!
I've got nothing against the Red Cross and their operation, but as a Profit Generating, Commercial Business, they should comply with all the requirements as laid down in the "Blue Books", just like all other Commercial Operators, and not hide behind the disguise of a charity.
What's good for one, is good for the other! No precedents!
Eeeezzzyyy Gunzzz, You'll get ol Bert Fire up again and that ar
e LH, that thinks he knows who I am!
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Red Cross and their operation, but as a Profit Generating, Commercial Business, they should comply with all the requirements as laid down in the "Blue Books", just like all other Commercial Operators, and not hide behind the disguise of a charity.
Eeeezzzyyy Gunzzz, You'll get ol Bert Fire up again
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been thinking - nothing, nothing will bring our dear Jeremy back. Maybe we must just remember him now, he was not a fighter - maybe all of this would have made him sad. To all flying - take care, enjoy every day like it is the last, and remember Jeremy with a smile - he was and is the best. XO
Last edited by takeabreath; 9th Oct 2005 at 10:43.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cape Town RSA
Age: 51
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jeremy Wood – Close Friend and Colleague
My apologies for not posting sooner. This week has been traumatic and catastrophic for us all.
By now you all know that Jeremy Wood (aka Jeremiah), died in a helicopter accident Sunday evening. The accident occurred around 2030B, over the Langkloofberg Mountains, over the mountain from Plettenberg Bay.
They were flying our MBB BO-105 from the scene of an accident in a small town called Haarlem. There was an injured 9 year old girl onboard, and they never arrived at the hospital in George. An aerial search with our Pilatus PC 12 revealed the ELT position at around 0400B Monday morning, and the crash site was located shortly thereafter. There were no survivors, and those who have seen the wreckage will know that there was very little left.
We are obviously all gutted, and severely traumatized, and the last week has been terrible for us all.
Jeremy started with us in July on our new service in George, and was bound for our Richards Bay service. I had poached Jeremy, and we were both excited at the prospect of the future ahead. He had served in the SAAF with me as a highly decorated flight engineer/winch man (Air Force Cross – Mozambican floods; and numerous others), on Oryx (Super Puma) Helicopters. He later joined Heyns Helicopters (firefighting) as engineer, and then later as co-pilot if my memory serves me correctly. Thereafter he joined United Air Charters Zambia, flying tourists, which later became On Air Charters, and did a few tours in the Drakensberg, before joining Red X AMS.
There is not one person I know, who has a bad word to say about Jeremy. He was loved and respected by all of his colleagues, and his professionalism as an engineer and a pilot was unrivalled.
Obviously there are many questions regarding the accident, not least of all the decision to take off with the prospect of ending up on a night flight. We are essentially only a day time VFR operation, but we have all been faced with certain calls that have their inherent delays, this in spite of proper planning.
There are, as is always the case with these tragedies, going to be many opinions as to what really happened this fateful night. Already people are convinced that this is a straight forward case of CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). It would be easy to label the crew with this kind of blame. I would encourage you all to hold back on these assumptions, out of respect for the deceased, who cannot answer for themselves. Also in the absence of any meaningful evidence from the wreckage. I will offer a few of my thoughts regarding the accident, and let the usual rumor process run it’s inevitable course:
• The crew had not flown all day
• The call they received was at approx. 1810B from the Metro Controller/ Dispatcher. The report they received at the time was of a Motor Vehicle Accident involving 5 “Red” (critical) patients, who had been flung from their vehicle. The only available paramedic in the area en-route had also been involved in an accident, so there was no medical assistance at hand. This paramedic eventually arrived after the heli had landed.
• This was a young and keen crew, and their mindset at the time I’m sure was to try render assistance. This is in our nature in EMS.
• Jeremy was an inherently cautious person and had often called for advice on marginal decisions/calls. Not on this occasion unfortunately.
• Sunset in George last Sunday, was at 1830B, and with the 50nm flight to Harlem, and a departure at approx. 1820, we have them landing at last light at the accident scene approx 1845.
• Most possible route, and witness reports, en-route to Harlem would have been through the Outeniqua Pass, to town Herold, and then along R62 to Haarlem.
• Witnesses estimate, a cloud base of approx. 3500’ in the George area at time of departure. You need approx 3000’ to get through this pass comfortably.
• They left the scene at 1950B.
• Most possible route, back the way you came, R62 to Herold, via Outeniqua Pass to George.
• Witnesses estimate a lowered cloud base of 2000’ -2500’ in George area between 2000B and 2100B. With no way through Pass, possible route would be back to point of departure to find a clear route over mountain to coastline at Plettenberg Bay.
• Witnesses report no cloud in Haarlem area. However moon was 1/8. Dark, very dark.
• Last known radio call 2030 (40 min after dep)
• Crash site located early next morning by ELT 500’ below highest peak (4590’) between Haarlem and Plettenberg Bay
• Jeremy had a current Night and Instrument Rating. Yes little night flying experience, but some 45 Hrs Instrument Flying
• Jeremy had flown many Night and NVG missions as a flight engineer in the SAAF
• The BO-105 has poor single engine performance, even at sea level. The graph’s say 100-150’ min ROC at MAUW at sea level 25 deg OAT at VY. This is if my memory serves me correctly.
• With the mountain at 5000’, and a Safety Altitude of 6000’, if you were to lose an engine, level flight would be impossible. If while trying to maintain level flight over the mountain, you were to damage the remaining engine then your already fatal predicament becomes even worse.
• Any other structural failure, over the mountain at night, would leave anyone with little to no options.
• It would have been extremely dark in that area, and I am not suggesting that spatial disorientation, with possible CFIT wasn’t a possible cause. Once again however without any hard evidence, to disprove mechanical fault, this could be totally unfair to this crew.
Obviously this is all my personal line of thinking, and an attempt to put the pieces and sequence of possible events together. There will be many opinions and many theories, this I know and have learnt to come to peace with. I just hope that my comments will help place certain things into perspective, and prevent any undue, unsubstantiated claims being made. There are too many possibilities to reach one particular conclusion.
Obviously night flying had a huge role to play, and we are looking long and hard at ourselves as individuals, and as a close knit organization into the role we played in this awful tragedy. Understandably many questions will be asked, and as we all know hindsight is an inexact Science.
There are some hard lessons ahead, but obviously none so hard, or painful as losing someone as special as Jeremiah. Also the crew and patient
I can assure you that as friends and colleagues we are devastated by the loss of all these people. The trauma and mourning extends right to the top of our Organization, as I have witnessed all week long. We are a unique Organization, but are cemented by our common goal to try make a difference to those people in need of assistance. We will not forget, and we will not just sweep this tragedy aside as implied. I know we will learn from this all, and will continue to strive to become better, in an always unsafe, and ever changing and often unpredictable environment.
Jeremy will be sorely missed by us all. As always he remained until his passing a quiet, respectful gentleman with a sharp dry sense of humor, and a loveable nature that those close to him would know well.
Ultimately he was an Aviator, with an inexhaustible passion for Helicopters.
RIP Jeremiah
Great friend and colleague
Marc Perkins
PS: Gunns, Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Red Cross. I am sure however that your gripe is with International Red Cross, and not Red Cross Air Mercy Service South Africa. A completely seperate Trust. Your gripe has no bearing on this unfortunate incident, and is out of place I feel on this thread.
PS: Tuesday 11 October 1100B Service for Paul Alexander (Paramedic). King of Kings Baptist Church, Cnr Oukaapse weg/ Buller Louw Rd/ Fish Hoek
PS: Wednesday 12 October Memorial 1000B Service for all Deceased. High School de Built Hall, Langenhoven Str, Next to George Hospital
PS: Wednesday 12 October 1400B Service for Jeremy Wood (Pilot). Maritzburg College School Chapel, Alexander Park, Princess Margaret Drive, Pietermarizburg
My apologies for not posting sooner. This week has been traumatic and catastrophic for us all.
By now you all know that Jeremy Wood (aka Jeremiah), died in a helicopter accident Sunday evening. The accident occurred around 2030B, over the Langkloofberg Mountains, over the mountain from Plettenberg Bay.
They were flying our MBB BO-105 from the scene of an accident in a small town called Haarlem. There was an injured 9 year old girl onboard, and they never arrived at the hospital in George. An aerial search with our Pilatus PC 12 revealed the ELT position at around 0400B Monday morning, and the crash site was located shortly thereafter. There were no survivors, and those who have seen the wreckage will know that there was very little left.
We are obviously all gutted, and severely traumatized, and the last week has been terrible for us all.
Jeremy started with us in July on our new service in George, and was bound for our Richards Bay service. I had poached Jeremy, and we were both excited at the prospect of the future ahead. He had served in the SAAF with me as a highly decorated flight engineer/winch man (Air Force Cross – Mozambican floods; and numerous others), on Oryx (Super Puma) Helicopters. He later joined Heyns Helicopters (firefighting) as engineer, and then later as co-pilot if my memory serves me correctly. Thereafter he joined United Air Charters Zambia, flying tourists, which later became On Air Charters, and did a few tours in the Drakensberg, before joining Red X AMS.
There is not one person I know, who has a bad word to say about Jeremy. He was loved and respected by all of his colleagues, and his professionalism as an engineer and a pilot was unrivalled.
Obviously there are many questions regarding the accident, not least of all the decision to take off with the prospect of ending up on a night flight. We are essentially only a day time VFR operation, but we have all been faced with certain calls that have their inherent delays, this in spite of proper planning.
There are, as is always the case with these tragedies, going to be many opinions as to what really happened this fateful night. Already people are convinced that this is a straight forward case of CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). It would be easy to label the crew with this kind of blame. I would encourage you all to hold back on these assumptions, out of respect for the deceased, who cannot answer for themselves. Also in the absence of any meaningful evidence from the wreckage. I will offer a few of my thoughts regarding the accident, and let the usual rumor process run it’s inevitable course:
• The crew had not flown all day
• The call they received was at approx. 1810B from the Metro Controller/ Dispatcher. The report they received at the time was of a Motor Vehicle Accident involving 5 “Red” (critical) patients, who had been flung from their vehicle. The only available paramedic in the area en-route had also been involved in an accident, so there was no medical assistance at hand. This paramedic eventually arrived after the heli had landed.
• This was a young and keen crew, and their mindset at the time I’m sure was to try render assistance. This is in our nature in EMS.
• Jeremy was an inherently cautious person and had often called for advice on marginal decisions/calls. Not on this occasion unfortunately.
• Sunset in George last Sunday, was at 1830B, and with the 50nm flight to Harlem, and a departure at approx. 1820, we have them landing at last light at the accident scene approx 1845.
• Most possible route, and witness reports, en-route to Harlem would have been through the Outeniqua Pass, to town Herold, and then along R62 to Haarlem.
• Witnesses estimate, a cloud base of approx. 3500’ in the George area at time of departure. You need approx 3000’ to get through this pass comfortably.
• They left the scene at 1950B.
• Most possible route, back the way you came, R62 to Herold, via Outeniqua Pass to George.
• Witnesses estimate a lowered cloud base of 2000’ -2500’ in George area between 2000B and 2100B. With no way through Pass, possible route would be back to point of departure to find a clear route over mountain to coastline at Plettenberg Bay.
• Witnesses report no cloud in Haarlem area. However moon was 1/8. Dark, very dark.
• Last known radio call 2030 (40 min after dep)
• Crash site located early next morning by ELT 500’ below highest peak (4590’) between Haarlem and Plettenberg Bay
• Jeremy had a current Night and Instrument Rating. Yes little night flying experience, but some 45 Hrs Instrument Flying
• Jeremy had flown many Night and NVG missions as a flight engineer in the SAAF
• The BO-105 has poor single engine performance, even at sea level. The graph’s say 100-150’ min ROC at MAUW at sea level 25 deg OAT at VY. This is if my memory serves me correctly.
• With the mountain at 5000’, and a Safety Altitude of 6000’, if you were to lose an engine, level flight would be impossible. If while trying to maintain level flight over the mountain, you were to damage the remaining engine then your already fatal predicament becomes even worse.
• Any other structural failure, over the mountain at night, would leave anyone with little to no options.
• It would have been extremely dark in that area, and I am not suggesting that spatial disorientation, with possible CFIT wasn’t a possible cause. Once again however without any hard evidence, to disprove mechanical fault, this could be totally unfair to this crew.
Obviously this is all my personal line of thinking, and an attempt to put the pieces and sequence of possible events together. There will be many opinions and many theories, this I know and have learnt to come to peace with. I just hope that my comments will help place certain things into perspective, and prevent any undue, unsubstantiated claims being made. There are too many possibilities to reach one particular conclusion.
Obviously night flying had a huge role to play, and we are looking long and hard at ourselves as individuals, and as a close knit organization into the role we played in this awful tragedy. Understandably many questions will be asked, and as we all know hindsight is an inexact Science.
There are some hard lessons ahead, but obviously none so hard, or painful as losing someone as special as Jeremiah. Also the crew and patient
I can assure you that as friends and colleagues we are devastated by the loss of all these people. The trauma and mourning extends right to the top of our Organization, as I have witnessed all week long. We are a unique Organization, but are cemented by our common goal to try make a difference to those people in need of assistance. We will not forget, and we will not just sweep this tragedy aside as implied. I know we will learn from this all, and will continue to strive to become better, in an always unsafe, and ever changing and often unpredictable environment.
Jeremy will be sorely missed by us all. As always he remained until his passing a quiet, respectful gentleman with a sharp dry sense of humor, and a loveable nature that those close to him would know well.
Ultimately he was an Aviator, with an inexhaustible passion for Helicopters.
RIP Jeremiah
Great friend and colleague
Marc Perkins
PS: Gunns, Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Red Cross. I am sure however that your gripe is with International Red Cross, and not Red Cross Air Mercy Service South Africa. A completely seperate Trust. Your gripe has no bearing on this unfortunate incident, and is out of place I feel on this thread.
PS: Tuesday 11 October 1100B Service for Paul Alexander (Paramedic). King of Kings Baptist Church, Cnr Oukaapse weg/ Buller Louw Rd/ Fish Hoek
PS: Wednesday 12 October Memorial 1000B Service for all Deceased. High School de Built Hall, Langenhoven Str, Next to George Hospital
PS: Wednesday 12 October 1400B Service for Jeremy Wood (Pilot). Maritzburg College School Chapel, Alexander Park, Princess Margaret Drive, Pietermarizburg
GunsssR4ever
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Out there somewhere ...
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Posts re IRC deleted. It had no bearing on this tradegy.
Sorry for the loss again Marc.
Sadly I can not remember him at all but I think he was after my time.
RIP
Sorry for the loss again Marc.
Sadly I can not remember him at all but I think he was after my time.
RIP
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Marc - Good to see you posting here and it was a pleasure to catch up with you when George and I stopped in.
You are right, Jeremy was one of those pilots you dont come across that often. In my opinion he was a dedicated professional and when I flew with him shooting On Air's helos over Vic Falls he was always the consumate professional and fantastic to work with.
The only ones that can tell us exactly what happened will never be able to, everyone else will only be able to speculate. Sure people might have their "conclusions" based on the "evidence" but in reality Jeremy and those that died are the only ones who know what "really" happened.
May they rest in peace, and for all the rest of you flying there in Sud Afrika, and elsewhere around the world, be careful and as long as the number of landings in your logbooks equals your takeoffs then all will be fine.
Ned aka Heli Ops.
You are right, Jeremy was one of those pilots you dont come across that often. In my opinion he was a dedicated professional and when I flew with him shooting On Air's helos over Vic Falls he was always the consumate professional and fantastic to work with.
The only ones that can tell us exactly what happened will never be able to, everyone else will only be able to speculate. Sure people might have their "conclusions" based on the "evidence" but in reality Jeremy and those that died are the only ones who know what "really" happened.
May they rest in peace, and for all the rest of you flying there in Sud Afrika, and elsewhere around the world, be careful and as long as the number of landings in your logbooks equals your takeoffs then all will be fine.
Ned aka Heli Ops.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 26S28E
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMS Helicrash in Uniondale
Hey Marc,
Good posting and a well written dedication to a fallen comrade. Just a point of note, The AMS operation is a day VFR operation not so? The AIP says that last light was really at 1818 and the take off to the primary was at 1825, after official dark. and the weather was deteriorating to a lower cloudbase and it was dark moon. Lets defend Jeremy in the proper way. Why would a person of his calbre take off after dark in a VFR day operation to a known roadside landing and knowing that he will be returning in deteriorating weather in a mountainous area in a twin engine helicopter with only one pilot. No Marc, this really smells of "pressure" and "dont worry about the rules". The Red Cross have been landing at night with Citations and PC 12 in badly lit strips for many years, how come the helicopter could not hack it. Quite simple, go and look how experienced the fixed wing Red Cross pilots are and look at where Jeremy was put and what job he was expected to do. We all mourn this tragedy, but if you continue to operate VFR day in IFR night you shall surely perish. Lets learn from this mistake and not blame "maybe an engine " or maybe "it broke up", lets ensure that when we do a job we do it with the normals like training and giudence of the low time guys and not throw them to the lions for the sake of profit.
Saluut Jeremy, we will learn from your mistake.
Good posting and a well written dedication to a fallen comrade. Just a point of note, The AMS operation is a day VFR operation not so? The AIP says that last light was really at 1818 and the take off to the primary was at 1825, after official dark. and the weather was deteriorating to a lower cloudbase and it was dark moon. Lets defend Jeremy in the proper way. Why would a person of his calbre take off after dark in a VFR day operation to a known roadside landing and knowing that he will be returning in deteriorating weather in a mountainous area in a twin engine helicopter with only one pilot. No Marc, this really smells of "pressure" and "dont worry about the rules". The Red Cross have been landing at night with Citations and PC 12 in badly lit strips for many years, how come the helicopter could not hack it. Quite simple, go and look how experienced the fixed wing Red Cross pilots are and look at where Jeremy was put and what job he was expected to do. We all mourn this tragedy, but if you continue to operate VFR day in IFR night you shall surely perish. Lets learn from this mistake and not blame "maybe an engine " or maybe "it broke up", lets ensure that when we do a job we do it with the normals like training and giudence of the low time guys and not throw them to the lions for the sake of profit.
Saluut Jeremy, we will learn from your mistake.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: close to the sun
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2nd Family member dies!
I see in the Newspaper today that Mrs. Dorothy Thompson, the 80 year old Grandmother of 9 year old Madison Miller, who lost her life in this tragic accident, died at 10.00 hours on Sunday morning, from a heart attack.
Her daughter & Madison's mom, Mrs. Colleen Miller said that her mom was just too traumatised by the accident, the tragic loss of her great grand child, and that of the others. She could just not come to terms with it.
Sad, really sad. RIP!
I see in the Newspaper today that Mrs. Dorothy Thompson, the 80 year old Grandmother of 9 year old Madison Miller, who lost her life in this tragic accident, died at 10.00 hours on Sunday morning, from a heart attack.
Her daughter & Madison's mom, Mrs. Colleen Miller said that her mom was just too traumatised by the accident, the tragic loss of her great grand child, and that of the others. She could just not come to terms with it.
Sad, really sad. RIP!
Last edited by alwaysinverted; 11th Oct 2005 at 14:30.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMS Heli crash in Uniondale
Thanks Marc for clearing up some issues. This is by no means a dig at you.
I have a question or two and a few points to ponder. It seems there are no clear cut rules in Red Cross AMS with regards to day VFR and night IFR flight. In my mind if there was a clear cut rule we would not be having this discussion in this forum at all because the helicopter would not have been dispatched, bearing in mind that it was a late call and their return would have been in the dark. Seen as this is a rumour forum and the rumour is that the child was not critically injured but had a badly broken leg. Point to ponder - the helicopter was despatched so who would pay for the flight if there was no patient? Who did the flight tracking for this flight or was there none? Did the helicopter land at the accident site again?
I know in my heart that it was not Jeremy's fault and that is all that matters to me. As said in previous postings there is not much left of the aircraft and chances that a definite conclusion can be drawn from what happened are not likely. There were many factors contributing to this tragedy and hopefully AMS will implement hard and fast rules with regards to night operations in the near future.
All said and done, it was a decision from up above that it was Jeremy's time to come home. A call we all have to answer at some point in our lives. Jeremy will be missed by so many people but each one of us has a special memory of Jeremy. RIP
I have a question or two and a few points to ponder. It seems there are no clear cut rules in Red Cross AMS with regards to day VFR and night IFR flight. In my mind if there was a clear cut rule we would not be having this discussion in this forum at all because the helicopter would not have been dispatched, bearing in mind that it was a late call and their return would have been in the dark. Seen as this is a rumour forum and the rumour is that the child was not critically injured but had a badly broken leg. Point to ponder - the helicopter was despatched so who would pay for the flight if there was no patient? Who did the flight tracking for this flight or was there none? Did the helicopter land at the accident site again?
I know in my heart that it was not Jeremy's fault and that is all that matters to me. As said in previous postings there is not much left of the aircraft and chances that a definite conclusion can be drawn from what happened are not likely. There were many factors contributing to this tragedy and hopefully AMS will implement hard and fast rules with regards to night operations in the near future.
All said and done, it was a decision from up above that it was Jeremy's time to come home. A call we all have to answer at some point in our lives. Jeremy will be missed by so many people but each one of us has a special memory of Jeremy. RIP
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMS crash
Sorry to be butting in, and i know a few guys are interested in what the cause was, and why it happened and all. I didnt know the Pilot, but i did have a close friend on the chopper, Carlos Julius. The fact of the matter remains that they got a call saying a 9 year old girl was seriously injured, she won't survive the trip via road.
"It's 10 minutes after sunset, but the girl won't make it"... what would u do in that position? It's a risk they took... and that... in my humble opinion... is what a hero does. They put their lives on the line to save (or at least try) her life.
Condolences to all the friends
"Lived as hero's, died as hero's"
"It's 10 minutes after sunset, but the girl won't make it"... what would u do in that position? It's a risk they took... and that... in my humble opinion... is what a hero does. They put their lives on the line to save (or at least try) her life.
Condolences to all the friends
"Lived as hero's, died as hero's"
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is common practice in most EMS operations around the world to never tell the pilot the nature of the accident or victim as this then influences the pilots decision to go ar not to go and they end up going on the call regardless of the risks. I have no doubt that had Jeremy known that it was a 9yr old kid it would have affected his decision; I know, I have been there and luckily I got away with it.
Unfortunately, in this case, 3 people died unnecessarily in order to save 1 life. I think if you asked the wives/parents/kids of the 3 deceased crew if it was worth the risk taken for that 1 life you would get a universal NO!
Procedures are put in place specifically to avoid this sort of thing happening. The AMS despacher ( if there was one ) should never have even let the call go through to the crew as they should know what the operating radius with times etc of the aircraft is, and what the cut off times are for a day VFR operation are. During my time as an EMS pilot the average time for a call was 61 minutes from first take off to last landing and therefore the cut of time for any call was 31 minutes before sunset.
This is unfortunately not the first time someone has taken off to do a call knowing they will get back in the dark and it will not be the last.
Unfortunately, in this case, 3 people died unnecessarily in order to save 1 life. I think if you asked the wives/parents/kids of the 3 deceased crew if it was worth the risk taken for that 1 life you would get a universal NO!
Procedures are put in place specifically to avoid this sort of thing happening. The AMS despacher ( if there was one ) should never have even let the call go through to the crew as they should know what the operating radius with times etc of the aircraft is, and what the cut off times are for a day VFR operation are. During my time as an EMS pilot the average time for a call was 61 minutes from first take off to last landing and therefore the cut of time for any call was 31 minutes before sunset.
This is unfortunately not the first time someone has taken off to do a call knowing they will get back in the dark and it will not be the last.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with leginheli 100%, there are different pressures on all of us to fly, mostly commercial ones by the people who pay your salary. The same in EMS, except you add the emotional aspect of it when it comes to the passenger being a patient in need. The necessity of the flight becomes an irrelevant issue, but if you wanted to look at it from a medical point of view then look at patient outcome - with hindsight - 9 year old with injuries taken to hospital by ambulance or placed in helicopter and subjected to another crash with subsequent fire? Nothing heroic about that in terms of medical interventions as the patient had a better chance of survival, in terms of medical intervention, by road ambulance.
No disrespect to the crew intended, I don't think anyone, except a suicide bomber, embarks on a mission when they really think something could cause them to die. This is the learning point that needs to come from this incident, why do highly professional, capable and respected pilots do things like this? Could it be one of us next? My guess is a poor flight safety program / aviation leadership on the part of AMS, combined with a CAA that can't spell general aviation safety as they have yet to equip themselves with sufficient quantity of the right caliber of people to be proactive.
No disrespect to the crew intended, I don't think anyone, except a suicide bomber, embarks on a mission when they really think something could cause them to die. This is the learning point that needs to come from this incident, why do highly professional, capable and respected pilots do things like this? Could it be one of us next? My guess is a poor flight safety program / aviation leadership on the part of AMS, combined with a CAA that can't spell general aviation safety as they have yet to equip themselves with sufficient quantity of the right caliber of people to be proactive.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMS heli crash
don't want things to get ugly, as they generally do in these things...
But the possibility of sacrificing your life for someone elses is one of those things that comes with the territory in this field... i know. There are countless EMT's around the world that are at peace with the fact, and i know that the family's of those people are also at peace with the fact, it may hurt, and you wouldn't want to think of it, but... that's what makes them different!
"Unfortunately, in this case, 3 people died unnecessarily in order to save 1 life. I think if you asked the wives/parents/kids of the 3 deceased crew if it was worth the risk taken for that 1 life you would get a universal NO!"
I am sort of hesitant to say this, but i don't find that they died "unnecessarily". They believed in a cause... they dedicated their lives to it!!! they fell in the line of duty, doing what they wanted to do... and to me there is no greater honour.
But no more nit-picking for me - i know Carlos, Jeremy and Paul are at peace... They at least tried. Whether or not Medicine would have made it by road is not the point - as was mentioned earlier... hindsite is an exact science.
Rest easy Joules, my brother from another mother - HBFD proud of u
But the possibility of sacrificing your life for someone elses is one of those things that comes with the territory in this field... i know. There are countless EMT's around the world that are at peace with the fact, and i know that the family's of those people are also at peace with the fact, it may hurt, and you wouldn't want to think of it, but... that's what makes them different!
"Unfortunately, in this case, 3 people died unnecessarily in order to save 1 life. I think if you asked the wives/parents/kids of the 3 deceased crew if it was worth the risk taken for that 1 life you would get a universal NO!"
I am sort of hesitant to say this, but i don't find that they died "unnecessarily". They believed in a cause... they dedicated their lives to it!!! they fell in the line of duty, doing what they wanted to do... and to me there is no greater honour.
But no more nit-picking for me - i know Carlos, Jeremy and Paul are at peace... They at least tried. Whether or not Medicine would have made it by road is not the point - as was mentioned earlier... hindsite is an exact science.
Rest easy Joules, my brother from another mother - HBFD proud of u
