SA Prepares itself for the A380
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GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
SA Prepares itself for the A380
Improvements of more than R370m will be made to the Cape Town and Johannesburg international airports over the next few years to accomodate the gigantic new Airbus A380.
Airlines are expected to start using the planes in 2007.
Airports company of SA communications manager, Solomon Makgale, said on Sunday that several airlines were expected to use the A380 on their SA routes.
In Johannesburg, improvements of R250m were being planned to, amongst other things, the old terminal for domestic flights and aprons, and in Cape Town the improvements would cost R124m.
There were no current plans to prepare other airports in the country for the A380.
Deirdré Hendricks, spokesperson for Acsa in the Cape, said on Sunday that two new aprons and a new air bridge would be built here.
Construction would start early next year and be completed in 2008, she said.
The runway would also be made slightly wider to handle the new air giant, she said.
The work on the aprons and air bridge would cost R72m and that on the runways R52m.
Makgale said in Johannesburg the old terminal for domestic flights would be transformed into a new international terminal. New aprons will also be built for the A380.
Initially there would be space for five A380s, but if the need arose, a sixth plane could be accommodated, he said.
Fuel pipes would also be extended and the air bridge improved.
In addition, more international weigh-in counters would be built.
At present, there were 104 weigh-in counters, and this would be increased to 180.
The improvements in Johannesburg were expected to be completed by 2007.
Makgale said the runways in Johannesburg could already accommodate the A380.
This new aircraft has two decks for its entire length and will be able to transport between 555 and 853 passengers.
It also has space for gyms, beds, luxury private rooms, casinos and bars.
Airlines are expected to start using the planes in 2007.
Airports company of SA communications manager, Solomon Makgale, said on Sunday that several airlines were expected to use the A380 on their SA routes.
In Johannesburg, improvements of R250m were being planned to, amongst other things, the old terminal for domestic flights and aprons, and in Cape Town the improvements would cost R124m.
There were no current plans to prepare other airports in the country for the A380.
Deirdré Hendricks, spokesperson for Acsa in the Cape, said on Sunday that two new aprons and a new air bridge would be built here.
Construction would start early next year and be completed in 2008, she said.
The runway would also be made slightly wider to handle the new air giant, she said.
The work on the aprons and air bridge would cost R72m and that on the runways R52m.
Makgale said in Johannesburg the old terminal for domestic flights would be transformed into a new international terminal. New aprons will also be built for the A380.
Initially there would be space for five A380s, but if the need arose, a sixth plane could be accommodated, he said.
Fuel pipes would also be extended and the air bridge improved.
In addition, more international weigh-in counters would be built.
At present, there were 104 weigh-in counters, and this would be increased to 180.
The improvements in Johannesburg were expected to be completed by 2007.
Makgale said the runways in Johannesburg could already accommodate the A380.
This new aircraft has two decks for its entire length and will be able to transport between 555 and 853 passengers.
It also has space for gyms, beds, luxury private rooms, casinos and bars.
http://www.finance24.com/Finance/Com...651249,00.html
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GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
Airbus A380 "envy"
From the SA Business Report : Interesting ..
After the launch of the new Airbus A380 this week, I was surprised to see the number of critics that came crawling out of the woodwork to predict the future misfortunes of the 'suprejumbo'.
Of course, Boeing has made their stance on the new jet very clear. During an interview held with the German publication Stern in September last year, the company's chief executive, Harry Stonecipher, said the aircraft was a 'mistake'.
Stonecipher added that the market for the new plane would not be large enough to the huge development costs of some 10 billion euros.
This is also the same company that is rapidly restructuring its European sales force to take back market share - which translates to lost sales - from Airbus.
All this leaves me with the feeling that Boeing's reaction is one of envy and anger, at having being beaten to the finish line. But it's just a feeling.
One local news channel described the A380 as "the plane that had yet to fly" - displaying an extreme ignorance of the Airbus track record, as well as Bernoulli's Principle. They then went on to change the foot in their mouth and noted that no airport in the world could yet accommodate the craft. I thought the reason for that would have been obvious, the kind of information you learn on a Business Basics 101 course.
Airports, such as London's Heathrow, have indicated they are more than willing to spend hundreds of millions to erect new terminals, walkways and other facilities for the A380. However, if they build these any earlier than required, the terminals simply stand idle, chewing cash like a cow chews cud, until the new craft came into service.
So, while many are predicting the Airbus A380 to be the 'Concorde of the new millennium' - a reference to the failure of that supersonic plane to generate enough business - I will gladly give my vote of confidence to this new creation. Not that I will ever get chance to fly in one.
If, as Boeing predicts [or wishes?] the giant aircraft turns out be a giant mistake, then I will be proud to have been part of one of the greatest failures of the early twenty-first century.
Regards
Philip Devine
Business Report Online Editor
Of course, Boeing has made their stance on the new jet very clear. During an interview held with the German publication Stern in September last year, the company's chief executive, Harry Stonecipher, said the aircraft was a 'mistake'.
Stonecipher added that the market for the new plane would not be large enough to the huge development costs of some 10 billion euros.
This is also the same company that is rapidly restructuring its European sales force to take back market share - which translates to lost sales - from Airbus.
All this leaves me with the feeling that Boeing's reaction is one of envy and anger, at having being beaten to the finish line. But it's just a feeling.
One local news channel described the A380 as "the plane that had yet to fly" - displaying an extreme ignorance of the Airbus track record, as well as Bernoulli's Principle. They then went on to change the foot in their mouth and noted that no airport in the world could yet accommodate the craft. I thought the reason for that would have been obvious, the kind of information you learn on a Business Basics 101 course.
Airports, such as London's Heathrow, have indicated they are more than willing to spend hundreds of millions to erect new terminals, walkways and other facilities for the A380. However, if they build these any earlier than required, the terminals simply stand idle, chewing cash like a cow chews cud, until the new craft came into service.
So, while many are predicting the Airbus A380 to be the 'Concorde of the new millennium' - a reference to the failure of that supersonic plane to generate enough business - I will gladly give my vote of confidence to this new creation. Not that I will ever get chance to fly in one.
If, as Boeing predicts [or wishes?] the giant aircraft turns out be a giant mistake, then I will be proud to have been part of one of the greatest failures of the early twenty-first century.
Regards
Philip Devine
Business Report Online Editor
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From: Colorado USA
After spending about an extra hour in the air the prospect of joining the (up to) 800 people trying to get out of the thing, then lining up at immigration??? This doesn't sound like much fun to me.
Suppose 3 arrive at the same time? Will they provide camp beds in the arrivals halls?
The slippery smooth sales videos create the image of passengers wandering about in Ocean Liner style luxury going to the bar or casino at will. I pax across the pond very frequently and I can say that no airline allows passengers to wander about or congregate any more.
Also note that the French sales people are pushing the fact that airlines will need a lot less pilots if they buy these things!
Give me the 777 or 7E7anyday!
V1
Suppose 3 arrive at the same time? Will they provide camp beds in the arrivals halls?
The slippery smooth sales videos create the image of passengers wandering about in Ocean Liner style luxury going to the bar or casino at will. I pax across the pond very frequently and I can say that no airline allows passengers to wander about or congregate any more.
Also note that the French sales people are pushing the fact that airlines will need a lot less pilots if they buy these things!
Give me the 777 or 7E7anyday!
V1
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GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
V1 .. very valid comments...
Remember how the 747 was advertised with the American "dream team " basketball players having a game in the inside with lotsa spare space
We all know how crapped a 747 can become ..
Must admit I have flown in the A340 200 now a few times and as pax I am hughely impressed (except the landing Friday afternoon in Accra) - sjees no wonder the SAA Captains do not introduce themselves these days
Remember how the 747 was advertised with the American "dream team " basketball players having a game in the inside with lotsa spare space
We all know how crapped a 747 can become ..
Must admit I have flown in the A340 200 now a few times and as pax I am hughely impressed (except the landing Friday afternoon in Accra) - sjees no wonder the SAA Captains do not introduce themselves these days
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From: The frequency jungle
Saw a documentary about the A380. Looks very nice in first / business class, but then the TV station showed a mock-up of the economy section. Whoooaaah. You're gonna be packed in there like sardines. Just like in any other economy class for that matter.
Very smooth sales team though.............
Very smooth sales team though.............
Thread Starter
GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
126,7 if they can keep there promises things will work smooth - so great features for First and Business class and the reduction in fares for the piranah class.
The more I think about V1 Rotate's post the more problems I foresee again .. ground handling must be a major concern ... imagine 2 arriving at CT International - never mind four at Heathrow at the same time :o
The immigration queu at Heathrow will start at the a/c door
The more I think about V1 Rotate's post the more problems I foresee again .. ground handling must be a major concern ... imagine 2 arriving at CT International - never mind four at Heathrow at the same time :o
The immigration queu at Heathrow will start at the a/c door
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From: Colorado USA
Anybody know what the MAUW will be? I was wondering about wake vortice problems, maybe ATC. will have to give them greater spacing which could lead to greater congestion, I for one wouldn't want to get too close.
It seems to me that this thing was dreamed up more by the French politicians trying to outdo the US than by engineers trying to serve the needs of aviation.
I believe that if nothing else the Concord taught us a serious lesson..........watch this space!
V1
It seems to me that this thing was dreamed up more by the French politicians trying to outdo the US than by engineers trying to serve the needs of aviation.
I believe that if nothing else the Concord taught us a serious lesson..........watch this space!
V1
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GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
Vital Stats
VITAL STATS: Airbus A380
Maximum capacity
800 including a flightcrew of two
Weight
Operating empty 275,000 kg,
Maximum take-off 548,000 kg :o
Performance
Maximum cruising speed: M 0.88.
Long-range cruising speed: M 0.85.
Dimensions
Wing span: 79.8m (261 ft 10 inch),
Length: 73m (239 ft 6 inch).
Height: 24,1 m (79 ft 1 inch)
Cargo capacity: 38 LD3s or 13 pallets.
P.S.: Standard seating for 555 passengers on two decks in a three class arrangement. Qantas plans to fit its aircraft with 523 seats (in three classes). A380 has 49 per cent more floor area but only 35 per cent more seats (in 555 seat configuration) than the 747-400, allowing room for passenger amenities such as bars, gymnasiums and duty free shops.
Maximum capacity
800 including a flightcrew of two
Weight
Operating empty 275,000 kg,
Maximum take-off 548,000 kg :o
Performance
Maximum cruising speed: M 0.88.
Long-range cruising speed: M 0.85.
Dimensions
Wing span: 79.8m (261 ft 10 inch),
Length: 73m (239 ft 6 inch).
Height: 24,1 m (79 ft 1 inch)
Cargo capacity: 38 LD3s or 13 pallets.
P.S.: Standard seating for 555 passengers on two decks in a three class arrangement. Qantas plans to fit its aircraft with 523 seats (in three classes). A380 has 49 per cent more floor area but only 35 per cent more seats (in 555 seat configuration) than the 747-400, allowing room for passenger amenities such as bars, gymnasiums and duty free shops.
A380 CUSTOMERS
Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Malaysian Airlines are among 11 passenger airlines to have agreed to buy the A380.
Emirates is its largest customer, ordering 45 while Singapore Airlines will take delivery first in 2006
Airbus\' 14 customers, which also include freight and leasing companies, have committed to spend about $40bn on the plane
Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Malaysian Airlines are among 11 passenger airlines to have agreed to buy the A380.
Emirates is its largest customer, ordering 45 while Singapore Airlines will take delivery first in 2006
Airbus\' 14 customers, which also include freight and leasing companies, have committed to spend about $40bn on the plane
Thread Starter
GunsssR4ever
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From: Out there somewhere ...
and so is Heathrow ...
V1 Rotate ... maybe they are seriously looking at sleeping space for the immigration area .. 
Airport changes
The world's busiest airports are having to change their terminal buildings to accommodate the A380.
Heathrow is spending Ł450m on preparing itself for the arrival of the A380, which will arrive and depart from Terminal 3.
"The A380 is critical for us," Eryl Smith, Heathrow's director of business strategy, planning and development told the Press Association.
"It will change the face of Heathrow and the face of long haul travel."
Controversial subsidies
Without government assistance, the A380 would probably never have been built.
Billions of euros have been handed over in "launch aid loans" in recent years - under generous repayment terms - to assist Airbus's development of the A380.
Airbus has downplayed the cost of the project despite the fact it could run as much as 1.5bn euros over budget.
"That sounds quite a lot of money until you realise you are dealing with a programme which is about 11bn euros," commercial director John Leahy told the BBC.
The world's busiest airports are having to change their terminal buildings to accommodate the A380.
Heathrow is spending Ł450m on preparing itself for the arrival of the A380, which will arrive and depart from Terminal 3.
"The A380 is critical for us," Eryl Smith, Heathrow's director of business strategy, planning and development told the Press Association.
"It will change the face of Heathrow and the face of long haul travel."
Controversial subsidies
Without government assistance, the A380 would probably never have been built.
Billions of euros have been handed over in "launch aid loans" in recent years - under generous repayment terms - to assist Airbus's development of the A380.
Airbus has downplayed the cost of the project despite the fact it could run as much as 1.5bn euros over budget.
"That sounds quite a lot of money until you realise you are dealing with a programme which is about 11bn euros," commercial director John Leahy told the BBC.
Talk about a mess...
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From: Colorado USA
I bet that the super slippery French salesmen have already been running the possible crew reduction numbers as part of the sales pitch should SAA be talked into kitting out with these machines !
2 pilots to 800 pax.........do the math!
And with all those suanas, gyms and massage parlours they will be able to re-write the crew duty regs too!
V1
2 pilots to 800 pax.........do the math!
And with all those suanas, gyms and massage parlours they will be able to re-write the crew duty regs too!
V1
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From: The World, although sometimes I wonder
What a frightening thought - the A380 at Cape Town!
The International building is a shambles when there are 2 B747-400s here, so imagine what will happen when you throw a A380 amongst them...... Lets sit back and watch this one......
Knowing ACSA they will also park a B737 in the A380 gate and then expect the A380 to park in another bay....
OH well never a dull moment with ACSA around. At least they are gong to build a car park to take the 550 passengers. So they must be doing some planning.
The area ear-marked for the apron expansion is where the present Air Chefs building is. But I believe in the good old days DCA SOLD that land to Air Chefs, not leased it, so Air CHefs want some astronomical amount for it - once that fight is over, ACSA want Air Chefs to move to the defunct Gate Gourmet complex south of the Tower. They way some of their drivers drive, it is only a matter of time, before they jump the stop sign over Hotel taxiway and hit an aircraft - we are in for sum interesting times!!!!
We have also seen what a B747 can do to a C152, what will an A380 do to them?
The International building is a shambles when there are 2 B747-400s here, so imagine what will happen when you throw a A380 amongst them...... Lets sit back and watch this one......
Knowing ACSA they will also park a B737 in the A380 gate and then expect the A380 to park in another bay....
OH well never a dull moment with ACSA around. At least they are gong to build a car park to take the 550 passengers. So they must be doing some planning.
The area ear-marked for the apron expansion is where the present Air Chefs building is. But I believe in the good old days DCA SOLD that land to Air Chefs, not leased it, so Air CHefs want some astronomical amount for it - once that fight is over, ACSA want Air Chefs to move to the defunct Gate Gourmet complex south of the Tower. They way some of their drivers drive, it is only a matter of time, before they jump the stop sign over Hotel taxiway and hit an aircraft - we are in for sum interesting times!!!!
We have also seen what a B747 can do to a C152, what will an A380 do to them?
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From: ME
I pax across the pond very frequently and I can say that no airline allows passengers to wander about or congregate any more.
FAA regulations prohibit the congregation of passengers or wandering around, it wasnt an airline decision
Mutt.
FAA regulations prohibit the congregation of passengers or wandering around, it wasnt an airline decision
Mutt.
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: The land of chocolate and cuckoo clocks!
I can just imagine the litigation community rubbing their collective hands with glee
Imagine a headline like this..."Passenger breaks neck on Transatlantic Flight"
Mr ------- died today after the A-380 he was flying on as a passenger encountered unexpected CAT whilst he was on the treadmill in the onboard gymnasium. An eyewitness reported seeing Mr ------'s feet still running as his head hit the roof!
I know it happens periodically already but how can someone sell these ideas to the public as safe and practicable??
Just my 2 cents worth
"Ducks and waits for fallout"
Imagine a headline like this..."Passenger breaks neck on Transatlantic Flight"
Mr ------- died today after the A-380 he was flying on as a passenger encountered unexpected CAT whilst he was on the treadmill in the onboard gymnasium. An eyewitness reported seeing Mr ------'s feet still running as his head hit the roof!
I know it happens periodically already but how can someone sell these ideas to the public as safe and practicable??
Just my 2 cents worth
"Ducks and waits for fallout"
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From: oppieplaas
Saunas, and shops?
Suanas and shops and walking trails?
All BS french sales talk like the speeds and fuel economy on the Busses they sold SAA Whats the use of loading a 800 seat aircraft with 555 pax. That means, if all the seats are full the the aircraft is only at 69.375% of its capacity. Last I checked, full fare airlines use 70% as break even seating. So you start off by not utilizing 30% of the seats. Great math!Im sure with in no time airlines are going to fit 900 seats, at their current seating pitch on the 747-400's
With a cabin of 6-7000' its also going to be tough on the treadmill, unless you are from Katmandou, or used to camp weekends on the summit of Killimanjaro.
My other worry is that when the chicken run out at dinner time, is that there will be 450 irate passengers around me, with fish dinners that they didnt want. That might get the air rage statistics for going. But maybe with all the extra space, Airbus could provide a secure lockup facility for restrained pax. The question now arises is where are they going to seat all the airmarshalls to help with the restraining.
Drinks time will this mean that I will have to 6 beers at a time, so I dont run out before they bring the next round.
Another concern I have with the aircraft, is that the ailines are allready stuglling to find fit looking hosties. Where are they going to find all the fit looking hosties for this puppy?
The last point is one for the pilots to consider is that if you stuff up the landing like in Accra on Friday, there will be 800 witnesses!
All BS french sales talk like the speeds and fuel economy on the Busses they sold SAA Whats the use of loading a 800 seat aircraft with 555 pax. That means, if all the seats are full the the aircraft is only at 69.375% of its capacity. Last I checked, full fare airlines use 70% as break even seating. So you start off by not utilizing 30% of the seats. Great math!Im sure with in no time airlines are going to fit 900 seats, at their current seating pitch on the 747-400's
With a cabin of 6-7000' its also going to be tough on the treadmill, unless you are from Katmandou, or used to camp weekends on the summit of Killimanjaro.
My other worry is that when the chicken run out at dinner time, is that there will be 450 irate passengers around me, with fish dinners that they didnt want. That might get the air rage statistics for going. But maybe with all the extra space, Airbus could provide a secure lockup facility for restrained pax. The question now arises is where are they going to seat all the airmarshalls to help with the restraining.
Drinks time will this mean that I will have to 6 beers at a time, so I dont run out before they bring the next round.
Another concern I have with the aircraft, is that the ailines are allready stuglling to find fit looking hosties. Where are they going to find all the fit looking hosties for this puppy?
The last point is one for the pilots to consider is that if you stuff up the landing like in Accra on Friday, there will be 800 witnesses!