Rossair
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Anybody central to all this that could advise best possible action to take? Suspect that the powers that be (were) are hoping that the claims on monies owed will just fade away with time the same way the employees were expected to at the end of January.
Makes me the moer in when I see ppl getting screwed over again and again.
Makes me the moer in when I see ppl getting screwed over again and again.
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indeed cnotraxdog, but i am sure the failing of book keeping was due to the fact you and a teacher/come insurance salesman spent all your study time in teasers and not in lectures!
ross air, who were they?
ross air, who were they?
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From Moneyweb:
Nedbank vs. Motala (2)
Barry Sergeant
Posted: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 09:13 | © Moneyweb Holdings Limited, 1997-2005
The recent liquidation of Rossair Contracts has once again pitted Nedbank, a subsidiary of financial services group Nedcor, against Enver Motala, a liquidator.
Rossair Contracts, a civil aviation company operating out of Lanseria, north of Johannesburg, filed for bankruptcy on February 2. Motala was not among the names of liquidators appointed to the Rossair Contracts estate on February 9.
Motala then launched an unsuccessful campaign against the Masters Office, which appoints liquidators. The Distributive, Catering, Hotels and Allied Workers Union (Dichawu) had originally nominated Motala as its representative for members affected by the Rossair Contracts bankruptcy.
On March 1, Dichawu launched an urgent application in the Pretoria High Court; in the result, the court ordered that Motala be appointed as an additional liquidator to Rossair Contracts. One Welcome Dolphus Mbalo, apparently secretary-general of Dichawu, signed the main affidavit filed with the court.
Within the Rossair Group, Rossair Contracts was by far the most attractive target for a liquidator, since its estate is worth an estimated R93-m, against a mere R5-m value for Rossair Aero Workshops. In his affidavit signed February 25, Mbalo stated unashamedly and falsely that Dichawu represents “34 employees” of Rossair Contracts.
Dichawu sued 10 respondents, including the Masters Office, and the duly appointed liquidators to Rossair Contracts. Nedbank, major creditor to Rossair Contracts, was not sued and did not put in an appearance at the hearing. Willem Kruger, Nedcor head of legal services, explains that “we have been made aware that Enver Motala was appointed by the court as a liquidator in at least one entity in the Rossair Group as a result of this application.
“As a major creditor we are concerned about the process and circumstances surrounding this appointment and we are considering addressing the Master of the High Court on this issue.”
To those familiar with the Rossair Contracts case, Nedcor’s apparent hesitancy in becoming more directly involved has come as some kind of a surprise. During January 2004, Nedbank laid a multi-tiered complaint against Motala with the Masters Office in Pretoria.
The complaint dealt with numerous prima facie irregularities in respect of the liquidation of Kort Beleggings CC, a closed corporation in which Motala was sole member. Kort owned three adjacent properties in downtown Middleburg, Mpumalanga, where Motala lived for a number of years in the 1990s.
Motala operated a number of businesses in and around the town; most went successively bust. The Middleburg properties continued to dog Motala and he placed Kort in voluntary liquidation on September 11, 2003. This information only reached Nedbank, Kort’s only secured creditor, on or about December 12, 2003.
Nedbank’s first serious complaint was that the Kort file was never referred to the Master’s panel for an appointment. Nedbank was also unable to locate the name of Kort on the so-called 48-hour list, which informs all liquidators, in a public manner, of a new liquidation. This list is the bread-and-butter of all liquidators.
Instead, it was clear from papers that the Master’s Office in Pretoria appointed one Norman Simon as sole provisional liquidator of Kort, before expiration of the 48 hours. Nedbank, however, was unable to find any record on the Master’s Office computer that any appointment of a liquidator was ever made to Kort.
Nedbank’s most serious problem was that Simon, like Motala, was a shareholder in, and director of, SBT Trust, based in Rosebank, Johannesburg. Simon lodged a mandatory certificate of “non-interest” in respect of his appointment as liquidator of Kort.
Nedbank complained that the certificate, dated September 12, 2003, was “worrisome” and was “patently in error” because first, both men had a common interest in SBT. Second, Motala was surety (on the Kort property) to Nedbank; he should have settled as far as possible any claims made by Nedbank against Kort. Third, Motala was party to the voluntary liquidation of Kort.
According to other filings in the Kort case, Nedcor Bank, the parent of Nedbank, was creditor to Kort in an amount of R3,9-m. Despite standing as surety for Kort, Motala was claiming R2,6-m from Kort. Nowhere was it clear how Kort’s alleged liability to Motala arose.
Nedbank was patently aggrieved that Simon approached it for support (liquidators require a nomination from at least one creditor to stand in line for a possible nomination as a liquidator), which Nedbank agreed to in good faith. When Nedbank discovered the fuller set of facts on December 12, 2003, it “withdrew all support due to the patent clash of interest.”
Nedbank tried without success to obtain the files to the Kort liquidation. It met with no success until January 16, 2004, until which date the file had been “sequestered.” As to creditors’ meetings, the first one on November 21 was attended no one, as nobody had been informed of the meeting. The second creditors’ meeting, on December 18, was also not attended by anyone. The law provides that it is an offence if the liquidator (evidently, Simon) or member (Motala) does not attend such meetings.
The outcome of the Kort case is yet to be made public. The outcome of the Rossair Contracts case remains a moveable feast.
Barry Sergeant
Posted: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 09:13 | © Moneyweb Holdings Limited, 1997-2005
The recent liquidation of Rossair Contracts has once again pitted Nedbank, a subsidiary of financial services group Nedcor, against Enver Motala, a liquidator.
Rossair Contracts, a civil aviation company operating out of Lanseria, north of Johannesburg, filed for bankruptcy on February 2. Motala was not among the names of liquidators appointed to the Rossair Contracts estate on February 9.
Motala then launched an unsuccessful campaign against the Masters Office, which appoints liquidators. The Distributive, Catering, Hotels and Allied Workers Union (Dichawu) had originally nominated Motala as its representative for members affected by the Rossair Contracts bankruptcy.
On March 1, Dichawu launched an urgent application in the Pretoria High Court; in the result, the court ordered that Motala be appointed as an additional liquidator to Rossair Contracts. One Welcome Dolphus Mbalo, apparently secretary-general of Dichawu, signed the main affidavit filed with the court.
Within the Rossair Group, Rossair Contracts was by far the most attractive target for a liquidator, since its estate is worth an estimated R93-m, against a mere R5-m value for Rossair Aero Workshops. In his affidavit signed February 25, Mbalo stated unashamedly and falsely that Dichawu represents “34 employees” of Rossair Contracts.
Dichawu sued 10 respondents, including the Masters Office, and the duly appointed liquidators to Rossair Contracts. Nedbank, major creditor to Rossair Contracts, was not sued and did not put in an appearance at the hearing. Willem Kruger, Nedcor head of legal services, explains that “we have been made aware that Enver Motala was appointed by the court as a liquidator in at least one entity in the Rossair Group as a result of this application.
“As a major creditor we are concerned about the process and circumstances surrounding this appointment and we are considering addressing the Master of the High Court on this issue.”
To those familiar with the Rossair Contracts case, Nedcor’s apparent hesitancy in becoming more directly involved has come as some kind of a surprise. During January 2004, Nedbank laid a multi-tiered complaint against Motala with the Masters Office in Pretoria.
The complaint dealt with numerous prima facie irregularities in respect of the liquidation of Kort Beleggings CC, a closed corporation in which Motala was sole member. Kort owned three adjacent properties in downtown Middleburg, Mpumalanga, where Motala lived for a number of years in the 1990s.
Motala operated a number of businesses in and around the town; most went successively bust. The Middleburg properties continued to dog Motala and he placed Kort in voluntary liquidation on September 11, 2003. This information only reached Nedbank, Kort’s only secured creditor, on or about December 12, 2003.
Nedbank’s first serious complaint was that the Kort file was never referred to the Master’s panel for an appointment. Nedbank was also unable to locate the name of Kort on the so-called 48-hour list, which informs all liquidators, in a public manner, of a new liquidation. This list is the bread-and-butter of all liquidators.
Instead, it was clear from papers that the Master’s Office in Pretoria appointed one Norman Simon as sole provisional liquidator of Kort, before expiration of the 48 hours. Nedbank, however, was unable to find any record on the Master’s Office computer that any appointment of a liquidator was ever made to Kort.
Nedbank’s most serious problem was that Simon, like Motala, was a shareholder in, and director of, SBT Trust, based in Rosebank, Johannesburg. Simon lodged a mandatory certificate of “non-interest” in respect of his appointment as liquidator of Kort.
Nedbank complained that the certificate, dated September 12, 2003, was “worrisome” and was “patently in error” because first, both men had a common interest in SBT. Second, Motala was surety (on the Kort property) to Nedbank; he should have settled as far as possible any claims made by Nedbank against Kort. Third, Motala was party to the voluntary liquidation of Kort.
According to other filings in the Kort case, Nedcor Bank, the parent of Nedbank, was creditor to Kort in an amount of R3,9-m. Despite standing as surety for Kort, Motala was claiming R2,6-m from Kort. Nowhere was it clear how Kort’s alleged liability to Motala arose.
Nedbank was patently aggrieved that Simon approached it for support (liquidators require a nomination from at least one creditor to stand in line for a possible nomination as a liquidator), which Nedbank agreed to in good faith. When Nedbank discovered the fuller set of facts on December 12, 2003, it “withdrew all support due to the patent clash of interest.”
Nedbank tried without success to obtain the files to the Kort liquidation. It met with no success until January 16, 2004, until which date the file had been “sequestered.” As to creditors’ meetings, the first one on November 21 was attended no one, as nobody had been informed of the meeting. The second creditors’ meeting, on December 18, was also not attended by anyone. The law provides that it is an offence if the liquidator (evidently, Simon) or member (Motala) does not attend such meetings.
The outcome of the Kort case is yet to be made public. The outcome of the Rossair Contracts case remains a moveable feast.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Staying Alive,
If you want to go the legal route, assuming you have money owed to you, I would suggest that you contact the ALPA legal team who should be able to point you in the right direction, you would have a stronger case if you got all the other guys owed money onboard, and sued the directors in their private capacities.
If you want to go the legal route, assuming you have money owed to you, I would suggest that you contact the ALPA legal team who should be able to point you in the right direction, you would have a stronger case if you got all the other guys owed money onboard, and sued the directors in their private capacities.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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I had my provident fund analyzed with my broker after I received my funds back from them, and I sorry to say that they screwed me ( probably all of us). My statement from Liberty indicated that they only contributed 1.5 % instead of the promised 5 % from day 1. That being after almost 4 years of service. 
Is there anyway of getting the difference back ?
Please contact me for details of the Liberty guy's name if you want to get a breakdown of your contributions.
Seems like all directors are
Is there anyway of getting the difference back ?
Please contact me for details of the Liberty guy's name if you want to get a breakdown of your contributions.
Seems like all directors are
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Letter of DEMAND
Hey Rossair Old Boys
I received a registered letter from George Nell Attorneys , With the header of “LETTER OF DEMAND / Training agreement and bond” stating at the end of the letter
“We have instructions to demand payment of the said amount (R28 057.95) from you as we hereby do and it is our further instruction to issue summons against you should you fail to make such payment within 14 days of the date of this letter. ”
Have any of you Rossair guys and girl got letters like this? I have tried to contact them only to get NO reply !
I received a registered letter from George Nell Attorneys , With the header of “LETTER OF DEMAND / Training agreement and bond” stating at the end of the letter
“We have instructions to demand payment of the said amount (R28 057.95) from you as we hereby do and it is our further instruction to issue summons against you should you fail to make such payment within 14 days of the date of this letter. ”
Have any of you Rossair guys and girl got letters like this? I have tried to contact them only to get NO reply !
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I got a similar letter a while ago also demanding money within 14 days. I spoke to a few people about it, including ALPASA and they all told me the same thing,"You signed the training bond so PAY!" So I paid. Rossairs lawyers gave me lots of hassles and because I could not come up with the money within the 14 days, even though I had spoken to them about that, they still caused big trouble for me.
So I would advise paying it. It is the easiest way to get rid of them. Unless you are keen on a fight. If you are good luck.
So I would advise paying it. It is the easiest way to get rid of them. Unless you are keen on a fight. If you are good luck.
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737playa,
Maybe I am being naive, but I seriously doubt that Rossair has any leg to stand on when it comes to claiming the training bonds.
Obviously I have not read your contract, however, a few general tips apply.
1. The lawyers winding up Rossair are most probably sending out the letters blind to all debtors of the company without any regard to the validity of any particular claim....sort of like shooting at fish in a barrel....take what you hit and then sit and decide if there is anything big enough to go after.
2. A bond is pre-agreed damages for when you leave their employment. My immediate thought is what the legal guys refer to as "impossiblity of performance" By going out of business, Rossair has made it impossible for you to perform your end of the contract. In my opinion that makes the contract void. In fact if it wasn't for the fact that they are bankrupt, you might have had a case against them(I am assuming they had agreed to employ you for the full period of the bond).
3. If you really not in for a fight then I would suggest approaching with an offer of an installment settlement(basically they have to accept). They will often give you up to a 50% discount if you settle in full cos it is very difficult to wind up the company with outstanding installments.
Ok. Good luck. We have an ex-Rossair guy working for us and they owe him about R50 000 in arrear S&T. I can't help wondering if the liquidators are as avid about going after the directors of this company as they are the employees!
Good luck!
KTK
Maybe I am being naive, but I seriously doubt that Rossair has any leg to stand on when it comes to claiming the training bonds.
Obviously I have not read your contract, however, a few general tips apply.
1. The lawyers winding up Rossair are most probably sending out the letters blind to all debtors of the company without any regard to the validity of any particular claim....sort of like shooting at fish in a barrel....take what you hit and then sit and decide if there is anything big enough to go after.
2. A bond is pre-agreed damages for when you leave their employment. My immediate thought is what the legal guys refer to as "impossiblity of performance" By going out of business, Rossair has made it impossible for you to perform your end of the contract. In my opinion that makes the contract void. In fact if it wasn't for the fact that they are bankrupt, you might have had a case against them(I am assuming they had agreed to employ you for the full period of the bond).
3. If you really not in for a fight then I would suggest approaching with an offer of an installment settlement(basically they have to accept). They will often give you up to a 50% discount if you settle in full cos it is very difficult to wind up the company with outstanding installments.
Ok. Good luck. We have an ex-Rossair guy working for us and they owe him about R50 000 in arrear S&T. I can't help wondering if the liquidators are as avid about going after the directors of this company as they are the employees!
Good luck!
KTK
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You Dot have to pay a cent !!!
If ALPA really told anyone to pay up in this regard then they are as incompetant as the Rosair financial directorship !!!
If any lawer asks you for money , after you tell him to go himself, please quote the following phrase,
"SCEPTIO NON AGEMPLETI CONTRACTUS"
IE, BY rossair being liquidated, you as an employee were unable to comply with the terms of yor contractual obligations to the company, as Rossair and the liquidators are unable to comply with their obligations to pay you, end of bloody story.
If any lawer asks you for money , after you tell him to go
himself, please quote the following phrase, "SCEPTIO NON AGEMPLETI CONTRACTUS"
IE, BY rossair being liquidated, you as an employee were unable to comply with the terms of yor contractual obligations to the company, as Rossair and the liquidators are unable to comply with their obligations to pay you, end of bloody story.
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I sincerely doubt that the liquidators can force a retrenched employee (by the result of liquidation) to uphold a training-bond agreement.
If you left the company prior to closure, maybe you are accountable?
Bad timing perhaps...
If you left the company prior to closure, maybe you are accountable?
Bad timing perhaps...
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The big wheel turns quickly ....
Teignmouth,
Here follows the rumour.
It appears that 2 of the ex directors, the ones who bought cars with the defrauded provident fund money, applied for positions with the Botswana CAA part of which was to have something to do with running Air Botswana.
Apparently they made it onto the shortlist for the positions in question, until last week ,when previously screwed over Rossair employee heard about this and contacted certain persons in the Botswana government, at ministerial level, regarding certain financial indescretions commited by the 2 musketeers while holding directorships at Rossair.
Last week during a parlimentary session in Gaborone these facts were brought to light by the Bots minister of transport and the two erstwhile fellows were removed from the shortlist forthwith.
All of which goes to show that you should not step on toe's that are part of the legs connected to an arse that you may have to kiss later.
Here follows the rumour.
It appears that 2 of the ex directors, the ones who bought cars with the defrauded provident fund money, applied for positions with the Botswana CAA part of which was to have something to do with running Air Botswana.
Apparently they made it onto the shortlist for the positions in question, until last week ,when previously screwed over Rossair employee heard about this and contacted certain persons in the Botswana government, at ministerial level, regarding certain financial indescretions commited by the 2 musketeers while holding directorships at Rossair.
Last week during a parlimentary session in Gaborone these facts were brought to light by the Bots minister of transport and the two erstwhile fellows were removed from the shortlist forthwith.
All of which goes to show that you should not step on toe's that are part of the legs connected to an arse that you may have to kiss later.
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Y'know every time the Bots guys have screwed me over they have given me a reciept to prove it... This particular outcome has raised more than a smile on my face and the next time those Bots officials rip me off I'll probably give them a tip....
Bots: good job. Let pond scum settle on some other pond....
Bots: good job. Let pond scum settle on some other pond....
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Bah......what crap!! Where are the incompetant morons that should be liable? So called managements.
Probably hiding in a **** hole where they belong.
Liable for a training bond.....never!
Probably hiding in a **** hole where they belong.
Liable for a training bond.....never!