Solenta ATR
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Solenta ATR
I hear that experience levels at Solenta are dropping as experienced crew are leaving at a rapid rate,I hear they are upgrading guys with minimal experience on type and a fresh ATP,does anyone know if this is true
Join Date: Sep 2001
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ATR captains...
This is so bad at Solenta, that they received special dispensation from the CAA to upgrade Comm rated FO's with all ATP subjects (min pass figure of 90% for all subjects), to Captain on the ATR.
GOTCHA....Scott,
\'S cott nothing to do with you, now does it....
As long as the person upgraded is properly licensed, rated, checked (sim, line and whatever else is required) and found to be suitable for the position, who are you (or anyone else) to question the decision of the responsible manager, whoever he may be , to upgrade a specific pilot to the RHS?
Right guys, fire away....
GOTCHA....Scott,
\'S cott nothing to do with you, now does it....
As long as the person upgraded is properly licensed, rated, checked (sim, line and whatever else is required) and found to be suitable for the position, who are you (or anyone else) to question the decision of the responsible manager, whoever he may be , to upgrade a specific pilot to the RHS?
Right guys, fire away....
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Freightboss: Brilliant reply I owe you beers !
Lets clear the rumour up right away. Solenta lost a lot of great crew, that is the bad news. The good news is that these guys were lost to positions far greater than what we can offer i.e. the Jet market but we working on this. The guys went to :
Gulf Air
UK Low cost Airline ???
MK
Comair
SAA
One Time
Safair
We actually pad ourselves on the back as we must be doing something right the okes that leave do so for excellent oppertunities so our Bangkok sim training must be recognised.
We whish all these guys only the best with there future careers.
We are at the moment on a serious employment drive but unfortunatly are only looking at direct entry P1 and P2. We have 3 positions each available. The reason for the direct entry is due to our loss there is no time for training guys up in BKK and we need the experience. In Jan next year we will train 2 more guys.
The company policy is to upgarde within first and then to look outside, most crew came from low time C208 pilots to ATR crew. Unfortunatly there are guys that have plenty experience but no ATP, we brun to upgrade them but can not at the moment. So for the comment that we upgrade inexperienced crew, you have no idea what you talking about.
We are not the operator that do 30 min conversions at FALA in similar type as the ATR with no sim training. We also do send our guys to BKK to get sim training, most guys flying the ATR that left to fly similar aircraft are not even current anymore as these companies prefer not to send these guys to the sim.
The crew that get upgraded are guys that we have confidence in and that meet the requirements. Upgrades gets done in the BKK sim by rated instructors. Anyone welcome to join for a sim session at own cost.
We thank the guys and girls that stay with us, they are all excellent individuals.
And as a last thought: Any other contract company out there that in the past two years gave the crew increases. 7% this year not wow but at least we try to keep up.
Have fun !!!
Lets clear the rumour up right away. Solenta lost a lot of great crew, that is the bad news. The good news is that these guys were lost to positions far greater than what we can offer i.e. the Jet market but we working on this. The guys went to :
Gulf Air
UK Low cost Airline ???
MK
Comair
SAA
One Time
Safair
We actually pad ourselves on the back as we must be doing something right the okes that leave do so for excellent oppertunities so our Bangkok sim training must be recognised.
We whish all these guys only the best with there future careers.
We are at the moment on a serious employment drive but unfortunatly are only looking at direct entry P1 and P2. We have 3 positions each available. The reason for the direct entry is due to our loss there is no time for training guys up in BKK and we need the experience. In Jan next year we will train 2 more guys.
The company policy is to upgarde within first and then to look outside, most crew came from low time C208 pilots to ATR crew. Unfortunatly there are guys that have plenty experience but no ATP, we brun to upgrade them but can not at the moment. So for the comment that we upgrade inexperienced crew, you have no idea what you talking about.
We are not the operator that do 30 min conversions at FALA in similar type as the ATR with no sim training. We also do send our guys to BKK to get sim training, most guys flying the ATR that left to fly similar aircraft are not even current anymore as these companies prefer not to send these guys to the sim.
The crew that get upgraded are guys that we have confidence in and that meet the requirements. Upgrades gets done in the BKK sim by rated instructors. Anyone welcome to join for a sim session at own cost.
We thank the guys and girls that stay with us, they are all excellent individuals.
And as a last thought: Any other contract company out there that in the past two years gave the crew increases. 7% this year not wow but at least we try to keep up.
Have fun !!!
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ATR Ratings
I know that this is a sore point for some pilots, but lets have a look at he reality of the situation.
SAX, Airlink, Comair and nationwide all have pending courtcases against pilots that were bonded for conversions. The moment SAA or some moer attractive airline called, these guys were off like a shot, thinking that nothing will come of the bonding agreement. What were they thinking?
I do not know of any company that has money to burn at the rate of 10K-20K in USD per conversion.
I believe that the decision of some operators to only accept rated pilots (be that on the ATR, EMB120 or any other a/c for that matter) is a realistic approach.
This way the pilot who pays for his rating, is in a position to offer his services to any operator without strings attached. If the call comes from a more attractive airline, there are no legal obstacles which might lead to an unpleasant experience in courts or with laywers.
With the exeption of the larger airlines which have the money and whose policy still is to train the pilots they employ their way, I beleive most small operators will more and more go this route of only employing rated pilots and as an alternative provide the opportunity for pilots to pay for a rating on an aircraft operated by that operator.
Come on guys lets start some sort of discussion on this matter and see where it leads....
SAX, Airlink, Comair and nationwide all have pending courtcases against pilots that were bonded for conversions. The moment SAA or some moer attractive airline called, these guys were off like a shot, thinking that nothing will come of the bonding agreement. What were they thinking?
I do not know of any company that has money to burn at the rate of 10K-20K in USD per conversion.
I believe that the decision of some operators to only accept rated pilots (be that on the ATR, EMB120 or any other a/c for that matter) is a realistic approach.
This way the pilot who pays for his rating, is in a position to offer his services to any operator without strings attached. If the call comes from a more attractive airline, there are no legal obstacles which might lead to an unpleasant experience in courts or with laywers.
With the exeption of the larger airlines which have the money and whose policy still is to train the pilots they employ their way, I beleive most small operators will more and more go this route of only employing rated pilots and as an alternative provide the opportunity for pilots to pay for a rating on an aircraft operated by that operator.
Come on guys lets start some sort of discussion on this matter and see where it leads....
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Hi,
I have an ATPL - I might even be the kind of person you're looking for (I make no assumptions) - but I'm sorry, I cannot afford that kind of thing. I accept my current training bond, and save money to pay it in case of any other offers, which I only actively hunt when I can afford the remainder of the bond. That is the way I do it. I do not want to incur any legal tangles, and am genuinely thankful for the opportunities companies have given me - I accept the bond, since it is only fair that they be able to recoup the money spent on training me if I accept a position with somebody else.
BUT, I WILL NOT shell out my own money for an aircraft of that cost - frankly an ATR is just too expensive. How could I possibly justify taking out that kind of loan, unless it was with zero interest, and the companies salary made it worthwhile? Flying training was already a huge chunk of money - I could understand if it was a C208 or something like that, but an ATR? Not a chance. I'm sure you will find people willing to live in debt, BUT with a house and a car, my salary is taken - sorry. And what about job security - what would happen if a pilot was retrenched, or furloughed? Surely that is a risk in the contract flying world? How would he or she service that kind of debt? Perhaps you have policies in place which minimise the risk, but I feel that those are risks not worth taking.
I also feel that this kind of policy is just a reflection of the realities of supply and demand - were the situation reversed, and companies competed for the attentions of too few pilots (a highly unlikely scenario, I agree!), this kind of thing would not happen. I understand the sense it makes from a business point of view, and pilots who try to shirk their training bonds put us all in a bad light, but I don't agree with paying for training up front.
That is my opinion, others may well differ.
I have an ATPL - I might even be the kind of person you're looking for (I make no assumptions) - but I'm sorry, I cannot afford that kind of thing. I accept my current training bond, and save money to pay it in case of any other offers, which I only actively hunt when I can afford the remainder of the bond. That is the way I do it. I do not want to incur any legal tangles, and am genuinely thankful for the opportunities companies have given me - I accept the bond, since it is only fair that they be able to recoup the money spent on training me if I accept a position with somebody else.
BUT, I WILL NOT shell out my own money for an aircraft of that cost - frankly an ATR is just too expensive. How could I possibly justify taking out that kind of loan, unless it was with zero interest, and the companies salary made it worthwhile? Flying training was already a huge chunk of money - I could understand if it was a C208 or something like that, but an ATR? Not a chance. I'm sure you will find people willing to live in debt, BUT with a house and a car, my salary is taken - sorry. And what about job security - what would happen if a pilot was retrenched, or furloughed? Surely that is a risk in the contract flying world? How would he or she service that kind of debt? Perhaps you have policies in place which minimise the risk, but I feel that those are risks not worth taking.
I also feel that this kind of policy is just a reflection of the realities of supply and demand - were the situation reversed, and companies competed for the attentions of too few pilots (a highly unlikely scenario, I agree!), this kind of thing would not happen. I understand the sense it makes from a business point of view, and pilots who try to shirk their training bonds put us all in a bad light, but I don't agree with paying for training up front.
That is my opinion, others may well differ.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Does Solenta pay their crew on the ATR's well? seeing that these guys are paying for their own ratings, it is a good investment in my eyes though cause they seem to get good jobs after Solenta.
But, Solenta is starting to operate 1900's yeah?? if you have to pay for your own rating then surely its better to go work for one of the other ''better'' paying contract guys who operates 1900's. Will this impose a further crew problem for them??
Give me some opinions on this, please guys!
All my respect to the South Central boys as they helped me to get my night hours for ATP.
Happy days
But, Solenta is starting to operate 1900's yeah?? if you have to pay for your own rating then surely its better to go work for one of the other ''better'' paying contract guys who operates 1900's. Will this impose a further crew problem for them??
Give me some opinions on this, please guys!
All my respect to the South Central boys as they helped me to get my night hours for ATP.
Happy days
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Entry Requirements?
With all being said, I am kinda neutral in this regard.
However, I would really like to know what the Entry Requirements are for someone to join Solenta C208/1900/ATR?
If it is such a good place to be, then one needs to know what is required to make it there...
Or do they also operate on the principle of who you know? From experience I am not so sure if this is the case. Any takers?
However, I would really like to know what the Entry Requirements are for someone to join Solenta C208/1900/ATR?
If it is such a good place to be, then one needs to know what is required to make it there...
Or do they also operate on the principle of who you know? From experience I am not so sure if this is the case. Any takers?
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While its good to hear that the guys are going from Solenta to nice jet jobs, this also happens to others who didn't pay for their ratings. People who I KNOW went from:
Contract 1900 -> SAA Airbus, SAA Boeing
Contract Twin Otter -> Contract F28
Contract 1900/ Twin Otter -> MK DC8
Contract 1900/ Twin Otter -> SAX CRJ (also had Cathay interview, wanted to stay in SA though)
Contract C208 -> SAX CRJ
Also recently heard of:
Contract DC3 TP -> Cathay (170 kts - Mach 0.8!!)
I am very sure that there have been pilots moving from 1900's etc to Safair and Cathay as well, I just don't know any personally.
The idea that an ATR rating will help with a good 'next job', is not incorrect, but pilots can also progress perfectly well without shelling out lots of cash. Therefore I don't consider it a great 'investment', since the return on the investment is frankly, cr............bad.
Another questions I must ask, with a genuine desire to know the answer, is: What is the cost/size limit for this policy? B737? B747? Didn't Nationwide also try the pay-as-you-go idea? As far as I know, this has been stopped. I think I know why, based on conversations with serving Nationwide pilots, but as its all supposition, I will avoid giving an opinion. Could any Nationwide people in the know say why that policy was stopped?
IMO.
Contract 1900 -> SAA Airbus, SAA Boeing
Contract Twin Otter -> Contract F28
Contract 1900/ Twin Otter -> MK DC8
Contract 1900/ Twin Otter -> SAX CRJ (also had Cathay interview, wanted to stay in SA though)
Contract C208 -> SAX CRJ
Also recently heard of:
Contract DC3 TP -> Cathay (170 kts - Mach 0.8!!)
I am very sure that there have been pilots moving from 1900's etc to Safair and Cathay as well, I just don't know any personally.
The idea that an ATR rating will help with a good 'next job', is not incorrect, but pilots can also progress perfectly well without shelling out lots of cash. Therefore I don't consider it a great 'investment', since the return on the investment is frankly, cr............bad.
Another questions I must ask, with a genuine desire to know the answer, is: What is the cost/size limit for this policy? B737? B747? Didn't Nationwide also try the pay-as-you-go idea? As far as I know, this has been stopped. I think I know why, based on conversations with serving Nationwide pilots, but as its all supposition, I will avoid giving an opinion. Could any Nationwide people in the know say why that policy was stopped?
IMO.
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Nationwide had the same concept going a few years ago and then abandoned it. From what I heard they had burnt their fingers with certin individuals who couldn't pass the grade later on. However, that said, Nationwide strapped itself back into the old saddle and require guys to pay for their rating - effective from the next intake. The cost? R150 000. Of the topic... but how is it that COmair can do a rating for R75 ooo and Nationwide gets away with charging almost double?
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Grizzly Bare: Ok, I did understand it that way anyway - but logically they wouldn't 'leave just to get out', would they? I mean, they'd have these huge debts to pay! They'd kind of need a salary, wouldn't they?! And if Solenta treats them ok (despite the loans), and they're getting good experience then they would have no reason to leave. Apologies if I have indeed missed the point....
And to Rudeman, I would also like to know more of Solenta's policy re. the training. Not just to slag them off....
Seriously though, maybe there's some kind of hidden benefit other than being able to just 'leave'. I am against this policy, as should be clear, but I would like to hear any more possible benefits in the interest of hearing all sides...I'm talking about benefits to Pilots, not to People Who Employ Pilots (although if you have a valid point, lets hear it.)
And to Rudeman, I would also like to know more of Solenta's policy re. the training. Not just to slag them off....
Seriously though, maybe there's some kind of hidden benefit other than being able to just 'leave'. I am against this policy, as should be clear, but I would like to hear any more possible benefits in the interest of hearing all sides...I'm talking about benefits to Pilots, not to People Who Employ Pilots (although if you have a valid point, lets hear it.)
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Lets talk about INTEGRITY
As one who has been bonded in the past (1900 and B737) in SA, I believe it comes down to the individual's principles and integrity! Without entering into debate on whether training bonds are a good or a bad thing, or whether to pay for training upfront, my opinion is that it all comes down to the dotted line. When YOU sign on the dotted line, you accept the conditions as presented to you at the time and you therefore enter into a CONTRACT. Right or wrong, you signed on the line and so you have to meet the obligation that you have entered into. After all, I would like to think that our word is our bond!
Better opportunities will always come along- better pay, better equipment etc. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of those opportunities; there is nothing wrong with ambition. BUT, in so doing let us remember to keep our house in order.
I had a 1900 training bond with Rossair and I did my time. I had a B737 training bond with Comair and I left the company to pursue an opportunity in the USA. I was fortunate that I was one of 3 individuals who had their bonds cancelled in the immediate post 9-11 environment. By resigning at a time when jobs were in jeorpardy, we relieved the company of having to POSSIBLY consider retrenching some pilots using the LIFO practice (last in first out).
When I got to the USA, I ended up paying for another B737 type rating anyway! The FAA would not recognise my P2 B737 type because in the US, there is no such thing. I paid 7300 US Dollars for my type during a time when the R/$ was almost 14rand to the USD. This entailed one week of classroom + oral exam, 20 hours of sim (10 hours left seat, 10 hours right seat) and a check ride in the left seat of the sim with an experienced FO in the right seat. To pay for all this, we sold almost all of our possessions and arrived in the USA with VERY little. In the end, just when I was pretty close to being penniless, I joined Cathay.
In summary, it appears all to easy for some folk out there to forget how eager they were to agree to that 1900, ATR, or 737 training bond and to criticise the company that they earlier so willing decided to join, when something better comes along. Once the hours are in the logbook, screw the company! NO WAY! That's not what I plan to teach my 2 sons.
Better opportunities will always come along- better pay, better equipment etc. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of those opportunities; there is nothing wrong with ambition. BUT, in so doing let us remember to keep our house in order.
I had a 1900 training bond with Rossair and I did my time. I had a B737 training bond with Comair and I left the company to pursue an opportunity in the USA. I was fortunate that I was one of 3 individuals who had their bonds cancelled in the immediate post 9-11 environment. By resigning at a time when jobs were in jeorpardy, we relieved the company of having to POSSIBLY consider retrenching some pilots using the LIFO practice (last in first out).
When I got to the USA, I ended up paying for another B737 type rating anyway! The FAA would not recognise my P2 B737 type because in the US, there is no such thing. I paid 7300 US Dollars for my type during a time when the R/$ was almost 14rand to the USD. This entailed one week of classroom + oral exam, 20 hours of sim (10 hours left seat, 10 hours right seat) and a check ride in the left seat of the sim with an experienced FO in the right seat. To pay for all this, we sold almost all of our possessions and arrived in the USA with VERY little. In the end, just when I was pretty close to being penniless, I joined Cathay.
In summary, it appears all to easy for some folk out there to forget how eager they were to agree to that 1900, ATR, or 737 training bond and to criticise the company that they earlier so willing decided to join, when something better comes along. Once the hours are in the logbook, screw the company! NO WAY! That's not what I plan to teach my 2 sons.
