Van has engine failure in Tanzania
THUNDERTAILED
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Well done the Helldog! Nice work. I had to smile at your nonchalant post!
I used to do long legs at night in Vans and I always used to wonder what would happen if we heard expensive noises coming from up fromt....used to press 'Nearest/Airfield' on the GPS a lot...
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more info
I dont think I mentioned this.
The prop once feathered did not move one mill. All the way down, even after the two other blades hit the ground it did not move. On attempting restart nothing, no Ng increase and no movement of the prop. She is locked up.
Also if you do find yourself gliding one of these puppies, she does not slow down as quick as you are used to. I was aiming 1/3 into this field, tried to bring the aimpoint back with flaps. She just kept going, I had to sideslip very low to avoid going to far into the field. In the end I landed about half way in.
The prop once feathered did not move one mill. All the way down, even after the two other blades hit the ground it did not move. On attempting restart nothing, no Ng increase and no movement of the prop. She is locked up.
Also if you do find yourself gliding one of these puppies, she does not slow down as quick as you are used to. I was aiming 1/3 into this field, tried to bring the aimpoint back with flaps. She just kept going, I had to sideslip very low to avoid going to far into the field. In the end I landed about half way in.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: tanzania
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hiya helldog i got nothin but praise for you mate just a couple of questions id like to ask bru.
1.would the landing(or whtever u call it) been better if there were a couple of tusker's lined up on the touchdown aiming point?
2.How did you relieve yourself that night after the accident,surely the act of cheating death is worth a few tuskers?
keep it up there helldog.
no more 406pilot
1.would the landing(or whtever u call it) been better if there were a couple of tusker's lined up on the touchdown aiming point?
2.How did you relieve yourself that night after the accident,surely the act of cheating death is worth a few tuskers?
keep it up there helldog.
no more 406pilot
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Helldog
I remember my 208 type rating......the last thing the man sitting next to me did was feather the prop!.....and hence I learnt the lesson you did about glide ratios's vs drag. I can happily say I coped admirably (although I was sweating like a fat bloke in a sauna) as I have done plenty of time in a ropey old piper cub with no flaps....and thus the art of the side-slip was not new. Still the Van is a great glider.....Ive got the thing to thermal at idle power!
You say the prop would not move?....possibly a gear box issue?...but then there was no Ng increase....puzzling.
Cheers H
I remember my 208 type rating......the last thing the man sitting next to me did was feather the prop!.....and hence I learnt the lesson you did about glide ratios's vs drag. I can happily say I coped admirably (although I was sweating like a fat bloke in a sauna) as I have done plenty of time in a ropey old piper cub with no flaps....and thus the art of the side-slip was not new. Still the Van is a great glider.....Ive got the thing to thermal at idle power!
You say the prop would not move?....possibly a gear box issue?...but then there was no Ng increase....puzzling.
Cheers H
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Good work my bru
Heard about it on the HF followed by the std Bla-Bla on the ground I'll be getting you a beer when I'm in Arusha in Nov, so glad to hear all went well
gb
Heard about it on the HF followed by the std Bla-Bla on the ground I'll be getting you a beer when I'm in Arusha in Nov, so glad to hear all went well
gb
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Hey 406.
Mate I did not need any other motivation other that living to fly another day.
Since then the fellow pilots have ensured I have not had to dip into my pockets much to buy beer. The night after the day I did knock back a few, believe me, since then the triples have been flowing.
Yep the ol' sideslip saved my butt, that was the point when the women started screaming as we were low and going a bit sideways towards the ground.
Anyway on the way to the ol'Masai Camp for a few...Karibu.
Mate I did not need any other motivation other that living to fly another day.
Since then the fellow pilots have ensured I have not had to dip into my pockets much to buy beer. The night after the day I did knock back a few, believe me, since then the triples have been flowing.
Yep the ol' sideslip saved my butt, that was the point when the women started screaming as we were low and going a bit sideways towards the ground.
Anyway on the way to the ol'Masai Camp for a few...Karibu.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Helldog,
Again, excellent job. I do remember also the amaizing gliding abilities of the van. She just keeps going and going and going...
It's true that the ease of landing by using the prop braking is just fantastic. Much better than spoilers. Makes us forget what happens when the fan stops....
Once in Bamako, I remember us racing at 180 IAS to get in front of an Air France 330. We passed the threshold at 175 IAS and managed to land it largly before mid RWY. That prop was like a kick in the face....
175 to 80 in about 4 seconds.....
As for your blocked prop. I tend to agree with Haughtney. Sounds like a heavy gearbox failure.
Good ol' P&W will tell us soon.
Hey 406, maybe we did meet in TZ...
Cheers,
ZS-NDV
Again, excellent job. I do remember also the amaizing gliding abilities of the van. She just keeps going and going and going...
It's true that the ease of landing by using the prop braking is just fantastic. Much better than spoilers. Makes us forget what happens when the fan stops....
Once in Bamako, I remember us racing at 180 IAS to get in front of an Air France 330. We passed the threshold at 175 IAS and managed to land it largly before mid RWY. That prop was like a kick in the face....
175 to 80 in about 4 seconds..... As for your blocked prop. I tend to agree with Haughtney. Sounds like a heavy gearbox failure.
Good ol' P&W will tell us soon.
Hey 406, maybe we did meet in TZ...
Cheers,
ZS-NDV
Join Date: Oct 2003
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hiya helldog,sorry to bother you with these silly questions of mine it would be interesting to know why the damn flaps wouldnt go down bru?
because if the battery had given up i dont think the cranking would help and since most engine gauges are dc operated you wouldnt have ng indication aswell..worth looking into....mate
but like you know im bored and id really like to keep this forum alive i just keep askin them questions...
keep it up there
no more 406pilot
because if the battery had given up i dont think the cranking would help and since most engine gauges are dc operated you wouldnt have ng indication aswell..worth looking into....mate
but like you know im bored and id really like to keep this forum alive i just keep askin them questions...
keep it up there
no more 406pilot
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Well 406 I did mention this but I will re-cap.
The CB had popped, I only noticed after landing after we were all out. I selected the flaps in stages but almost in one action. I guess the motor could not hack it. They stopped somwhere around the 20 degrees position or just past. I did not have time to notice this as we were very low at this point. I did have a glance back over my shoulder but I could not tell visually that the flaps were not all the way down. And it was a quick glance, with less than 100 feet to go.
Oh and goonaboy....I humbly accept your offer of free beer in November...Karibu Arusha.
The CB had popped, I only noticed after landing after we were all out. I selected the flaps in stages but almost in one action. I guess the motor could not hack it. They stopped somwhere around the 20 degrees position or just past. I did not have time to notice this as we were very low at this point. I did have a glance back over my shoulder but I could not tell visually that the flaps were not all the way down. And it was a quick glance, with less than 100 feet to go.
Oh and goonaboy....I humbly accept your offer of free beer in November...Karibu Arusha.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Good on ya sport!!!! keeping it real huh?. 
just like a 206 but bigger in the gliding config?.
shame about the nose wheel though.
just like a 206 but bigger in the gliding config?.
shame about the nose wheel though.
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Helldog
Well done to you,I hope the Geman tourists promised you a trip to "der moederlandt" and include at least one free "frauline"
Next time Im in Tanz,Ill be sure to buy you a round of JD at the Royal Palm,them we can also get 406 to tell us his engine failure stories.
Well done chap
Well done to you,I hope the Geman tourists promised you a trip to "der moederlandt" and include at least one free "frauline"
Next time Im in Tanz,Ill be sure to buy you a round of JD at the Royal Palm,them we can also get 406 to tell us his engine failure stories.
Well done chap
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Hey Helldog....let me know...by PM if you wish......what the failure actually was, Ive been speaking to a couple of PT6 spanner monkeys and they all have different opinions...the smart money is on the compressor turbine making mischief..and fouling up the gearbox works etc.... They are also scratching their heads as all 3 of them reckon this kind of failure shouldnt happen without clear maintenance indications before hand.
Let me know when you know
Cheers
H
Let me know when you know
Cheers
H
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Since this crash, and the others mentioned above on 21 October 2004 by Shenzi Rubani, single turbine engined aircraft have continued to go down due to engine failure. I have not made any special effort to find out how many. Last year in just US territory, Business & Commercial Aviation magazine mentioned two C208s that went down due to engine failure in Texas and Puerto Rico. In both cases the pilots were able to execute a successful forced landing.
This year at least two more have gone down. In late January another Cessna C208 Caravan went down with engine failure. It crashed in severe IMC over mountains near Port Alberni, British Columbia on a flight from Tofino to Vancouver. Three occupants were killed, including a three year old, and five survived. In early February yet another C208 went down with engine failure in Tasmania. It was on floats and managed to make a successful forced landing on a hydro-electricity lake. According to the posts this last incident puts the failure rate for the PT6 engine used in the single engine Caravan and the single engine Pilatus PC12 below the reliability level officially required by some countries for single engine flight in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) or at night! It will be interesting to see if those countries that have permitted single engine passenger carrying in IMC and at night now do an about turn.
PC12s have also gone down due to engine failure. Readers should refer to the thread “Pilatus PC-12’s” on the Biz Jets & GA Forum. I put my views there on 27 December 2004. The recent safe return to Lusaka after a major engine failure of the C421 carrying the ex-President of Zambia shows the value of having a second engine. Single turbine (as well as piston) engined aircraft should not be permitted to carry fare paying passengers in IMC, at night or over water or inhospitable terrain. In any case, many corporate policies and life and health insurers forbid employees from travelling in single-engined aircraft. Operators of singles are already excluding themselves from carrying these customers.
This year at least two more have gone down. In late January another Cessna C208 Caravan went down with engine failure. It crashed in severe IMC over mountains near Port Alberni, British Columbia on a flight from Tofino to Vancouver. Three occupants were killed, including a three year old, and five survived. In early February yet another C208 went down with engine failure in Tasmania. It was on floats and managed to make a successful forced landing on a hydro-electricity lake. According to the posts this last incident puts the failure rate for the PT6 engine used in the single engine Caravan and the single engine Pilatus PC12 below the reliability level officially required by some countries for single engine flight in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) or at night! It will be interesting to see if those countries that have permitted single engine passenger carrying in IMC and at night now do an about turn.
PC12s have also gone down due to engine failure. Readers should refer to the thread “Pilatus PC-12’s” on the Biz Jets & GA Forum. I put my views there on 27 December 2004. The recent safe return to Lusaka after a major engine failure of the C421 carrying the ex-President of Zambia shows the value of having a second engine. Single turbine (as well as piston) engined aircraft should not be permitted to carry fare paying passengers in IMC, at night or over water or inhospitable terrain. In any case, many corporate policies and life and health insurers forbid employees from travelling in single-engined aircraft. Operators of singles are already excluding themselves from carrying these customers.
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"...no Ng increase and no movement of the prop..." Interesting! 
I am interested in the -114/-114A installation in the C208/208B.
If the prop was locked one could suspect a gear box or power section failure? Can you confirm Ng was 0% on the attempted re-start - in which case the gas generator was also stopped - a locked up power section should not stop the gas generator? CT Blade failure (if that were the cause) should still register an Ng increase on the attempted restart.
And the statistics above do not necessarily reflect on the Van reliability. There are a few stories in there ..... as you may well be aware. Carrier, there may well be more to the Tasmanian incident as the ATSB report has not yet been released. It is fair to say, that not carrying out maintenance strictly in accordance with Cessna and P&W requirements may be reflecting in the engine failure rate. Personal experience confirms lack of daily compressor washes and on board ECTM monitoring equipment will inevitably result in premature engine failure. Conversely, the Van my son flies (for a Government Department) is maintained strictly by the book and the engine has never missed a beat in thousands of hours, mostly in very hostile environments.
I am interested in the -114/-114A installation in the C208/208B.
If the prop was locked one could suspect a gear box or power section failure? Can you confirm Ng was 0% on the attempted re-start - in which case the gas generator was also stopped - a locked up power section should not stop the gas generator? CT Blade failure (if that were the cause) should still register an Ng increase on the attempted restart.
And the statistics above do not necessarily reflect on the Van reliability. There are a few stories in there ..... as you may well be aware.
Carrier, there may well be more to the Tasmanian incident as the ATSB report has not yet been released. It is fair to say, that not carrying out maintenance strictly in accordance with Cessna and P&W requirements may be reflecting in the engine failure rate. Personal experience confirms lack of daily compressor washes and on board ECTM monitoring equipment will inevitably result in premature engine failure. Conversely, the Van my son flies (for a Government Department) is maintained strictly by the book and the engine has never missed a beat in thousands of hours, mostly in very hostile environments.
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A SAAF Van had a sim fate, stator vane broke off with sim indications. Pilot did good job landing in a ploughed field near Malmesbury. Also no Ng, No Windmilling. Good job in landing safely.
