ATC at FAVV will be the cause of an accident soon.
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Join Date: May 2004
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ATC at FAVV will be the cause of an accident soon.
I happened to attend the Aerobatics Display/Nationals at FAVV on the weekend. Got to the airfield, and went up to the tower to see what was happening. The Female air traffic controller, or advisor (not sure she can control anything) then 'cleared' two aircraft to land - one on 21, and the other on 03. Luckily the pilots were wake up and noticed what she had done.
Later that afternoon she 'cleared' a super cub (or similar taildragger) to take off 21, and another aircraft to land. Once again the pilot in the twin engined aircraft noticed, and had to overfly the cub, already airborne at that stage.
Any views on this?
Later that afternoon she 'cleared' a super cub (or similar taildragger) to take off 21, and another aircraft to land. Once again the pilot in the twin engined aircraft noticed, and had to overfly the cub, already airborne at that stage.
Any views on this?
Firstly They are not ATC at FAVV they provide an information service. They do not hold ATC licences and MAY NOT CLEAR Acft to land or take off etc. It is uncontrolled airspace the people there only have a normal radio licence and they must only give you traffic info about other acft in the circuit. The propper for them to respond when you are on final is "surface wind XXX/** kts runway clear" there is no clearance to land in that. just advising that there are no other objects on the RWY.
Remember it is still an uncontrolled airfield and all seperation is still the pilots responsibility. Do not at any time think that they are qualified ATC's at Verreniging. I doubt any have had any training exept on how to find the PTT on a hand held.
If they are in fact giving clearances file a report with the CAA so these people can be stopped.
And before we start a slagging session FAVV does not have any ACSA or ATNS representation. So please don't write to ATNS complaining about service at FAVV.
Remember it is still an uncontrolled airfield and all seperation is still the pilots responsibility. Do not at any time think that they are qualified ATC's at Verreniging. I doubt any have had any training exept on how to find the PTT on a hand held.
If they are in fact giving clearances file a report with the CAA so these people can be stopped.
And before we start a slagging session FAVV does not have any ACSA or ATNS representation. So please don't write to ATNS complaining about service at FAVV.
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A transmission at FAVV looks similar to this:
Acft: Vereeniging ABC, inbound from the south-west, 5nm out, requesting joining and landing.
Tower: ABC you may join on a right-hand downwing for runway 03. Report downwind established.
Acft: Join and report right hand downwind 03.
Acft: Vereeniging Tower, ABC, on the downwind for 03.
Tower: Report Finals, you are number 2.
Acft: Report finals, number 2, ABC.
Acft: Tower, ABC, Finals, 03.
Tower: ABC, land at your own discretion, surface wind calm.
Now if it happens that the pilot wasn't paying attention, and she "advises" another acft to do exactly the opposite as seen above, at the same time, it is possible for them to be in serious trouble.
I merely saying what I observed on Saturday. And if I was in a cub, and just airborne with a Cessna 402 flying over me at 20 feet above me. Well I don't think it's a very comfortable situation. (That was the actual scenario, although the twin could've been a chieftan)
Acft: Vereeniging ABC, inbound from the south-west, 5nm out, requesting joining and landing.
Tower: ABC you may join on a right-hand downwing for runway 03. Report downwind established.
Acft: Join and report right hand downwind 03.
Acft: Vereeniging Tower, ABC, on the downwind for 03.
Tower: Report Finals, you are number 2.
Acft: Report finals, number 2, ABC.
Acft: Tower, ABC, Finals, 03.
Tower: ABC, land at your own discretion, surface wind calm.
Now if it happens that the pilot wasn't paying attention, and she "advises" another acft to do exactly the opposite as seen above, at the same time, it is possible for them to be in serious trouble.
I merely saying what I observed on Saturday. And if I was in a cub, and just airborne with a Cessna 402 flying over me at 20 feet above me. Well I don't think it's a very comfortable situation. (That was the actual scenario, although the twin could've been a chieftan)
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Like i said in a previous post,last time i went to FAVV i very nearly left half my plane behind.It was on the narrow rwy (cant recall what designator),but was switched at the last minute,which obviously causes severe extra workload and on a gusty,stormy day is the last thing you want.
not a single other aerrie in sight...
not a single other aerrie in sight...
You dont have to do what they tell you to do so if they change RWY and you don't want to just say negative I will be landing on 03 etc Once again they are not ATC so they have no authority.
Being uncontrolled you can do what ever you feel best and safe.
Being uncontrolled you can do what ever you feel best and safe.
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I totally agree with Little One. Vereeniging is uncontolled. The few times I flew in that airspace, I noteced that they are clueless. they get confused quickly and do NOT keep track of all the aircraft. Their terminology sucks.
The problem is that if a student pilot fly there, he might not pick up if they made a mistake and just do what he is "told" by the tower, and something might happen!
The problem is that if a student pilot fly there, he might not pick up if they made a mistake and just do what he is "told" by the tower, and something might happen!
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ATNS has nothing to do with this airfield and there is certainly no ATC there.
Know of several incidents and each time I tell the pilot concerned to complain to the CAA.
Why not use their CHIRP form if you do not want to mention your name - works quite well and your name is never mentioned.
Know of several incidents and each time I tell the pilot concerned to complain to the CAA.
Why not use their CHIRP form if you do not want to mention your name - works quite well and your name is never mentioned.
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There are other "Radio" services also in use for instance FAGC. Although tempted, one need to remember it's not ATC talking to you. I've had a few close calls a GC and VV but I believe we will be much worse off without any advice.
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To the best of my knowledge when the term 'radio' is used then the station should be addressed as 'RADIO' not Tower and the station should respond as as 'This is *** RADIO. It means that an Air/Ground service exists and the only difference between 'Radio' and an a non-radio field is that the station may offer information such as advisory QNH, wind direction and active runway and other known traffic operating in the vicinity. The term 'your discretion' is the key and thus any advice then is unambiguous and pilots should then treat the facility in the same way they would an non-radio, uncontrolled airfield. I understand if one holds an RT license then one can operate an Air/Ground Station.
