Too low over Leman lake on final GVA
On final to rwy 22 GVA, over the lake alarmingly below glideslope
https://simpleflying.com/easyjet-lak...ow-glideslope/ |
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This one is rather closer to home for me. Literally; I can see my house go by on the starboard side on final. I also have family in Scotland so am on this route a few times a year...
I was a bit surprised to learn that the altimeter reads out the ASL value and you have to subtract off the local elevation to get the actual height above the ground (or, in this case, lake). Do they still only have that spinny clock thing from the Spitfire days? |
No, much better than that, uses air data, backed up by radar beams. Invented by clever RAF engineers.
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Pure speculation, but I wonder if this was a mishandled GS from above (commenced from below the GS or without the G/S having beeen armed?).
Report will certainly make interesting reading… |
That was the first thing that sprung to mind too. Had to fly the GS from above procedure many times into GVA. In a high workload situation it would be easy to miss the lack of GS blue. Under the circumstances that is about your only protection till the EGPWS pipes up.
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Don't Mention The Loop
This would have been quite the flight for the SLF, according to this article on MSN: Far from being surprised, '"the crew were able to avoid a collision with the water at the last second and looped over Thonon once they regained altitude".
It's been a while since I flew any serious aerobatics but a well-flown 1g loop can be a work of art, indeed none of the passengers seem to have even noticed the gentle transition to and from the inverted state at the top of the loop, so it must have a perfect execution. Would that be in Normal Law, or...? Speaking of which, was there an uptick in tea and biccies expenditure at the EJ Head Office that week? Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. |
Originally Posted by TheGorrilla
(Post 11593563)
That was the first thing that sprung to mind too. Had to fly the GS from above procedure many times into GVA. In a high workload situation it would be easy to miss the lack of GS blue. Under the circumstances that is about your only protection till the EGPWS pipes up.
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Originally Posted by TheGorrilla
(Post 11593563)
That was the first thing that sprung to mind too. Had to fly the GS from above procedure many times into GVA. In a high workload situation it would be easy to miss the lack of GS blue. Under the circumstances that is about your only protection till the EGPWS pipes up.
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Windows! It appears that no one was looking at the flight instruments either.
Flew 100s of approaches into GVA and only had one interesting one during my line training on the comparatively draggy DC9 32 or 51 and that was from the south onto 05. When cleared from approach from the hold in icing conditions I elected to do a dirty dive rather than the full let down and intercepted the glide slope flying manually using the flight director. Temperature rose so anti icing off but at the outer marker check the altitude was wrong..checked QNH settings and realised that I was flying the 6 degree glide slope..ordered flight director off and closed the throttles..intercepted correct glide path probably some 500ft above minimums. All within company rules as stabilised criteria was landing configuration selected by 400ft. Nothing mentioned in the debrief but then the skipper and safety pilot flew hunters. |
Originally Posted by Owen61
(Post 11592326)
This one is rather closer to home for me. Literally; I can see my house go by on the starboard side on final. I also have family in Scotland so am on this route a few times a year...
I was a bit surprised to learn that the altimeter reads out the ASL value and you have to subtract off the local elevation to get the actual height above the ground (or, in this case, lake). Do they still only have that spinny clock thing from the Spitfire days? There are a few ways the pilots should have known they were flying too low, the glideslope instrument would have shown this, the radar altimeter (if they had one) would show this, and whatever type of terrain warning they had would show this. The plane I fly most of the time now would have had a screen full of red showing me too low. Landing strictly visually with no aids whatsoever it is very easy to get low over water, especially flat water, but they shouldn't have been doing that AFAIK. |
Originally Posted by island_airphoto
(Post 11594530)
There are a few ways the pilots should have known they were flying too low, the glideslope instrument would have shown this, the radar altimeter (if they had one) would show this, and whatever type of terrain warning they had would show this.
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Originally Posted by speed13ird
(Post 11594534)
I'm pretty sure they had a "radar altimeter".
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er, it's required equipment for dispatch and it's not fitted with an "off switch", it's what makes the EGPWS work, are you some sort of twit?
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A nod's as good as a wink to a blind man...
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Originally Posted by speed13ird
(Post 11594534)
I'm pretty sure they had a "radar altimeter".
A bit of an issue on a 320 if you don’t have at least one… :E |
Originally Posted by Speed_Trim_Fail
(Post 11594713)
A bit of an issue on a 320 if you don’t have at least one… :E
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
(Post 11595217)
I am amazed at how bad a design an aircraft can have when a loss of its two radalts has such significant consequence on aircraft handling.
I would start talking all misty eyed about the 737 Classic at this point but I’d be told to go back to LGW and stay there. |
Originally Posted by island_airphoto
(Post 11594530)
Having the altimeter read AGL would mean it would be jumping all over the place over any kind of hilly terrain and make traffic control impossible.
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Originally Posted by speed13ird
(Post 11594549)
er, it's required equipment for dispatch and it's not fitted with an "off switch", it's what makes the EGPWS work, are you some sort of twit?
Receiver/Transmitter (R/T) Unit(s) May be inoperative provided:a) Dispatch deviation for GPWS inoperative is observed, b) Approach minimums or operating procedures do not require their use, and c) Operations are limited to not more than two flight days before repairs are made. Of course some airports would not allow inop and I suspect GVA would not. |
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