Aztec crash near Bagby 6 July'23.
What sadly looks like a fatal light aircraft crash near Bagby.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/316539 |
There's very little about the Bagby incident but this link has some drone (?) pictures - doesn't look great.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-66130906 |
BBC confirms one fatality, very sad...
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Flightaware shows an aircraft approaching Bagby at 19.45 BST - the type tallies with the shape of the tail visible in the photo....:(
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Originally Posted by ETOPS
(Post 11463513)
Flightaware shows an aircraft approaching Bagby at 19.45 BST - the type tallies with the shape of the tail visible in the photo....:(
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According to the news reports pilot didn't make it and looking at the picture I can understand why.
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Originally Posted by Bksmithca
(Post 11463691)
According to the news reports pilot didn't make it and looking at the picture I can understand why.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11463557)
1971 White Waltham-based Aztec G-BKJW.
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Originally Posted by GeeRam
(Post 11463695)
Which news reports are those?
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North Yorks Aztec crash was fatal - aircraft appears to have dived in while returning to Bagby from Ireland, last ADSB signal showed ROD of nearly 3000 fpm and 238kts! Catastrophic mechanical or medical problem perhaps? No idea what the weather was like.
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 11464030)
North Yorks Aztec crash was fatal - aircraft appears to have dived in while returning to Bagby from Ireland, last ADSB signal showed ROD of nearly 3000 fpm and 238kts! Catastrophic mechanical or medical problem perhaps? No idea what the weather was like.
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Aztec crash near Bagby 6 July'23.
On the evening of the 6th. of July a PA 27 Aztec crashed as it neared Bagby. The sole occupant in his twenties was killed.
There appears to be little mention of this accident, except for a brief note of it in the post above. Does anybody know more ? I find it sad that a young pilot probably starting out could die so anonymously. |
Have to say I was very surprised (and sad of course) at this news. I’ve extensive experience on most marks of the Aztec family including a single engine landing with pumping the gear down. Never felt unsafe and always enjoyed it’s no nonsense handling. I do wonder what the AAIB will find?
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Certainly await AAIB's findings with interest, the aircraft had flown quite a long day down to northern France, thence to the Irish Republic and back to Bagby.
(Thanks for the tidy up! :ok:) |
I'm not 100% convinced by that tour shown on the flight trackers.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11468847)
I'm not 100% convinced by that tour shown on the flight trackers.
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My scepticism is based on having recorded it on Mode S for a period on the day of the accident. If the Aztec had been where the flight trackers put it at the time in question, I shouldn't have been able to pick it up.
Could have been freak reception, I suppose, but I'm always a bit dubious about tracks constructed wholly using multilateration. |
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11469162)
My scepticism is based on having recorded it on Mode S for a period on the day of the accident. If the Aztec had been where the flight trackers put it at the time in question, I shouldn't have been able to pick it up.
Could have been freak reception, I suppose, but I'm always a bit dubious about tracks constructed wholly using multilateration. |
The aircraft did indeed go to France, back to Ireland and then towards Bagby.
I have been told that the heater did not work on the previous flight and at least one passenger complained of a strong smell of fumes on arrival in Ireland. One of the four owners was not impressed with the lack of door seal. The four owners are all involved in the racing industry. |
Interesting to see the aircraft was registered to an owner from Henley on Themes but based at Bagby.
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Originally Posted by 7AC
(Post 11470305)
The aircraft did indeed go to France, back to Ireland and then towards Bagby.
I have been told that the heater did not work on the previous flight and at least one passenger complained of a strong smell of fumes on arrival in Ireland. One of the four owners was not impressed with the lack of door seal. The four owners are all involved in the racing industry. Either fuel fumes or maybe even CO if it was running. I disliked those things. The ‘66 I flew had it disabled fortunately. With the owners having the disposable income for racing makes you wonder why they fly such an old airframe. Last Aztec was built in ‘78. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have one but for recreational purposes not depending on transportation. Especially at lighter weights it’s a big baby on one engine, relatively speaking. |
Originally Posted by B2N2
(Post 11472055)
If it had a janitrol heater it may have been leaking.
Either fuel fumes or maybe even CO if it was running. I disliked those things. The ‘66 I flew had it disabled fortunately. With the owners having the disposable income for racing makes you wonder why they fly such an old airframe. Last Aztec was built in ‘78. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have one but for recreational purposes not depending on transportation. Especially at lighter weights it’s a big baby on one engine, relatively speaking. |
Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 11468688)
North Yorks Aztec crash was fatal - aircraft appears to have dived in while returning to Bagby from Ireland, last ADSB signal showed ROD of nearly 3000 fpm and 238kts! Catastrophic mechanical or medical problem perhaps? No idea what the weather was like.
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
(Post 11472104)
Some owners fly aircraft that are almost 100 years old. Why not fly a nice old Aztec(or Apache) for the experience and then move on to something else, etc, etc.
Recreational yes, depending on it for transportation no as it’s too limiting with weather conditions. Get a Cheyenne or a KingAir. |
Hope not another Emiliano Sala situation here.
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Originally Posted by B2N2
(Post 11472055)
If it had a janitrol heater it may have been leaking.
Either fuel fumes or maybe even CO if it was running. I disliked those things. The ‘66 I flew had it disabled fortunately. With the owners having the disposable income for racing makes you wonder why they fly such an old airframe. Last Aztec was built in ‘78. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have one but for recreational purposes not depending on transportation. Especially at lighter weights it’s a big baby on one engine, relatively speaking. Regarding the aircraft's age I think it must probably have been one of the best maintained for its 'vintage' and I believe she featured in a 'Pilot' assessment not too long ago. |
Originally Posted by B2N2
(Post 11472225)
You didn’t read my post very well did you?
Recreational yes, depending on it for transportation no as it’s too limiting with weather conditions. Get a Cheyenne or a KingAir. You said “With the owners having the disposable income for racing makes you wonder why they fly such an old airframe. Last Aztec was built in ‘78.” which is a statement to not buy an aircraft exclusively based on age. If you were suggesting that an aircraft be purchased based on capability in your earlier post, it would have made sense to talk about airframe capability rather than just airframe age. That being said, I see the pilot was in his twenties, so experience may be an issue. Perhaps he was building up experience(and enjoying doing so) toward an eventual Cheyenne or King Air aircraft. |
Poor young lad.
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On the 4th of April 1976 I had a runaway trim on a Aztec VH-MBU. If I remember correctly the trim cable was a nine strand affair and seven strands severed and poked through the cabin ceiling lining. The nose went down and the only way I could regain control was to lower the flaps (way outside the flap limit). With reduced power and flaps I was able to make a safe landing. The Aztec had a large nose up pitch tendency with the application of any flap up to the 'E' model. Piper then redesigned the tail plane on the 'F' model to eliminate this. If I had been in an "F' I probably wouldn't be here.
Part of the redesign of the tail plane included small horns on the leading edge and these would love to collect ice causing the control column to pump in and out. Interesting to see the accident aircraft here is an 'E'. The janitrol heater required careful operation and would pop the circuit breaker if outside its temperamental parameters. I never liked that design. |
Originally Posted by By George
(Post 11472643)
Interesting to see the accident aircraft here is an 'E'..
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
(Post 11472393)
Actually, I read your post extremely well. Not sure why you would suggest otherwise.
You said “With the owners having the disposable income for racing makes you wonder why they fly such an old airframe. Last Aztec was built in ‘78.” which is a statement to not buy an aircraft exclusively based on age. If you were suggesting that an aircraft be purchased based on capability in your earlier post, it would have made sense to talk about airframe capability rather than just airframe age. That being said, I see the pilot was in his twenties, so experience may be an issue. Right…. No matter how immaculate it is maintained there will always be 50 year old components in the aircraft with 50 years of fatigue on them. I’m fairly certain trim cables need to be replaced every 10 years or so together with rudder cables but I’m pretty sure items like the flap torque tube do not. |
Originally Posted by B2N2
(Post 11475686)
No matter how immaculate it is maintained there will always be 50 year old components in the aircraft with 50 years of fatigue on them.
I’m fairly certain trim cables need to be replaced every 10 years or so together with rudder cables but I’m pretty sure items like the flap torque tube do not. Aztec seems just fine to me. One just needs to operate it well within its capabilities. |
Originally Posted by punkalouver
(Post 11475771)
Aztec seems just fine to me. One just needs to operate it well within its capabilities. Capabilities of the aircraft and of the pilot. Any machine no matter how benign can kill if operated outside of its intended, engineered and proven envelope. Was this aircraft turbo charged? |
Originally Posted by B2N2
(Post 11476136)
Was this aircraft turbo charged?
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11476244)
No. While a handful of the 220 or so UK registered Aztecs over the years have had the TIO-540, only one of them remains and it's not this one.
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A North Yorkshire Police spokesperson said this week: "We have made three arrests in connection with the light aircraft crash which occurred on Thursday 06 July 2023 at Bagby Airfield near Thirsk. Sadly, a man aged in his 20s died following the incident. Three men aged 37, 55 and 68 were yesterday (Tuesday 12 September 2023) arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. The men were interviewed and have since been released under investigation. The investigation is led by us at North Yorkshire Police with support from the Civil Aviation Authority." |
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How very sad to see a young man die doing something he loved. I flew "JW" a lot in the 80's from Southend with Routair/Expressflight often with Alan Williams who I remember as a very friendly gentleman. The Aztec was a solid old bus of an aeroplane, but us humans operate in an alien environment up there which can bite hard no matter how good we are. I just hope the pilot was not under any pressure to fly beyond his experience or capability, thats all. Phil S.
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Originally Posted by CAP 10b
(Post 11502657)
How very sad to see a young man die doing something he loved. I flew "JW" a lot in the 80's from Southend with Routair/Expressflight often with Alan Williams who I remember as a very friendly gentleman. The Aztec was a solid old bus of an aeroplane, but us humans operate in an alien environment up there which can bite hard no matter how good we are. I just hope the pilot was not under any pressure to fly beyond his experience or capability, thats all. Phil S.
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