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Precision Air crash, Lake Victoria
Sadly, just picked this up from Reuters https://www.reuters.com/world/africa...ia-2022-11-06/
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"... continuing to rescue other passengers trapped in the plane" doesn't sound good.
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Tanzania crash
Tanzania crashTanzanian passenger plane crashes (or overruns) or shorts into Lake Victoria next to the north-western town of Bukoba.
More than 20 of the 49 passengers have been rescued, according to local media, but this still has to be officially confirmed. One end of the runway at Bukoba airport lies right next to the shore of Lake Victoria, Africa's largest lake. T-tail still visible above the surface. The Precision Air flight going from Tanzania's biggest city, Das es Salaam, to Bukoba via Mwanza when it reportedly encountered a storm and heavy rains. |
Possibly some similarities with the Lion Air arrival into the sea just short of the runway in Bali, and Air Niugini into Chuuk Lagoon. Both of these involved a cocked up non precision approach in bad weather and a go around which didn’t happen. |
This must have been a difficult approach for the crew from the SE with rapidly intensifiying storm cells over the lake.
Sat loop |
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According to some passenger reports (via Avherald), that was their 2nd approach to the airfield.
Also, there are no published instrument approaches for Bukoba. |
Odd.......
The two pilots survived the crash and were in touch with rescue workers from the cockpit before reporting that their oxygen supply was dwindling, Albert Chalamila, chief administrator of Tanzania's Kagera region, told Reuters. They were dead when rescue workers reached them, but the two flight attendants survived, he said. |
BBC pictures show the island beyond the plane, so most likely an overrun. A pretty basic airfield. The pilots may have drowned as their oxygen ran out - awful way to end your career.
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Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins
(Post 11326680)
BBC pictures show the island beyond the plane, so most likely an overrun. A pretty basic airfield. The pilots may have drowned as their oxygen ran out - awful way to end your career.
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Locked flight deck door perhaps? Wasn't there a crash at Amsterdam when the rescue crew couldn't get to the pilots?
I retired before that policy came in. I would have hated it. I can't be sure that my sanity would have survived being imprisoned like that. |
Originally Posted by jackharr
(Post 11326823)
Locked flight deck door perhaps? Wasn't there a crash at Amsterdam when the rescue crew couldn't get to the pilots?
I retired before that policy came in. I would have hated it. I can't be sure that my sanity would have survived being imprisoned like that. |
Originally Posted by uxb99
(Post 11326848)
Doesn't the flight deck incorporate some form of emergency exit, Jettison able window, fire axe etc? If not isn't that a H&S issue for the crew? After all the passengers have them (not axes but everything else) ?
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A fisherman who was one of the first responders at the site of Sunday's plane crash which killed 19 people in Tanzania's Lake Victoria, has described how he tried to save the pilots stuck in the cockpit and how he nearly lost his life trying to rescue them. Majaliwa Jackson has been officially declared a hero, awarded 1 million Tanzanian shillings ($430; £370), and offered a job in the fire and rescue brigade for his efforts. Speaking to the BBC from his hospital bed in the lakeside town of Bukoba before the government announcement, Mr Jackson said he panicked as he saw the passenger plane approach from the wrong direction, before plunging into the lake. He rushed to the scene with three fellow fishermen and helped to open the rear door by smashing it with a rowing oar which helped passengers seated towards the rear of the plane to be rescued. Mr Jackson said he then moved to the front and dived into the water. He and one of the pilots then communicated with each other by making signs through the cockpit window. "He directed me to break the window screen. I emerged from the water and asked airport security, who had arrived, if they have any tools that we can use to smash the screen. "They gave me an axe, but I was stopped by a man with a public announcement speaker from going down and smashing the screen. He said they were already in communication with the pilots and there was no water leakage in the cockpit," Mr Jackson said. He added that after being stopped he "dived back and waved goodbye to the pilot". But the pilot then indicated that he still wanted to be rescued. "He pointed out the cockpit emergency door to me. I swam back up and took a rope and tied it to the door and we tried to pull it with other boats, but the rope broke and hit me in the face and knocked me unconscious. The next thing I know I was here at the hospital," Mr Jackson said. Both pilots are among the 19 confirmed fatalities after the plane - operated by Precision Air, Tanzania's largest private airline - crashed near the shore of the lake. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63540823 |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11326857)
 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63540823
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Really horrific. The crash axe is normally behind the FO seat low down near the gear pins (on 72-600). With oxy masks on and full of water, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to retrieve. Terribly sad.
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When the pilots are on oxygen is the hose long enough to stand up and reach the hatch?, it is probably not a situation that had been considered in the design. Same goes for the crash axe location.
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11327026)
When the pilots are on oxygen is the hose long enough to stand up and reach the hatch?, it is probably not a situation that had been considered in the design. Same goes for the crash axe location.
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A320LGW
they were unable to open the emergency escape hatch above. It does open inwards though. . A terrible story . :( |
Originally Posted by A320LGW
(Post 11327156)
I don't believe it is. The jumpseat oxygen pipe however is built longer so the jumpseater can go and tackle fire in the fwd hold if need be.
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Flight deck oxygen masks aren’t meant for use underwater but the 100% oxygen setting may have given something breathable for a while.
Storm cells suggest the possibility of a microburst. A sudden change to the wind component or being right underneath the descending air could easily exceed the aircraft’s performance available to recover. A decision to hold or divert could have changed this tragic accident into a slight delay or minor inconvenience. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11326857)
So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar.... |
Originally Posted by Trim Stab
(Post 11327194)
That sounds a likely tale...
So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar.... As for the reported role of the locals in rescuing passengers, the fact that 24 lived, and the interviews with the survivors both seem perfectly consistent with that. |
@ Trim Stab; There are certain fishermen who use goggles to dive for fish or crustaceans. Could have been some of those guys.
Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me. |
Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 11327316)
Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do. |
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 11327423)
TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do. |
Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 11327776)
Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 11327908)
"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....:E
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) |
Originally Posted by Maninthebar
(Post 11327934)
AIC - Also In Canada
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) Regulatory surveillance is also on the TSB Watchlist and will remain on it until TC demonstrates through surveillance activity assessments that the new surveillance methodology is identifying non-compliances, and that TC is ensuring that a company returns to compliance in a timely fashion and is able to manage the safety of its operations. Following the occurrence, North Star Air implemented a flight operations quality assurance program. Additionally, in December 2020, TC conducted a PI focused on the evaluation and effectiveness of the long-term corrective action plan related to the flight operations findings from the December 2019 PI. TC concluded that the long-term corrective actions taken by North Star Air were effective. |
AWA = Africa Wins Again
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If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door. |
Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11329186)
It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door. The main entry/exit airstair door of the 1900C could not be opened, not by the people inside and not by the first responders outside. Unanswered is why the overwing emergency exit on the LH side was not opened from outside by the first responders; or if they even tried or thought of the overwing hatch, that can be opened from the outside by pulling a flush mounted handle (the RH side of the 1900C was engulfed in fire). https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19961119-0 |
Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked
FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public. In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.). |
Originally Posted by avionimc
(Post 11329644)
Not sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.
FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public. In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.). I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been. |
Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
(Post 11329793)
I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.
I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been. Might I humbly suggest you bang the FTL drum to reduce deaths? |
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