A320LGW
they were unable to open the emergency escape hatch above. It does open inwards though. . A terrible story . :( |
Originally Posted by A320LGW
(Post 11327156)
I don't believe it is. The jumpseat oxygen pipe however is built longer so the jumpseater can go and tackle fire in the fwd hold if need be.
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Flight deck oxygen masks aren’t meant for use underwater but the 100% oxygen setting may have given something breathable for a while.
Storm cells suggest the possibility of a microburst. A sudden change to the wind component or being right underneath the descending air could easily exceed the aircraft’s performance available to recover. A decision to hold or divert could have changed this tragic accident into a slight delay or minor inconvenience. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11326857)
So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar.... |
Originally Posted by Trim Stab
(Post 11327194)
That sounds a likely tale...
So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar.... As for the reported role of the locals in rescuing passengers, the fact that 24 lived, and the interviews with the survivors both seem perfectly consistent with that. |
@ Trim Stab; There are certain fishermen who use goggles to dive for fish or crustaceans. Could have been some of those guys.
Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me. |
Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 11327316)
Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do. |
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 11327423)
TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do. |
Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 11327776)
Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 11327908)
"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....:E
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) |
Originally Posted by Maninthebar
(Post 11327934)
AIC - Also In Canada
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) Regulatory surveillance is also on the TSB Watchlist and will remain on it until TC demonstrates through surveillance activity assessments that the new surveillance methodology is identifying non-compliances, and that TC is ensuring that a company returns to compliance in a timely fashion and is able to manage the safety of its operations. Following the occurrence, North Star Air implemented a flight operations quality assurance program. Additionally, in December 2020, TC conducted a PI focused on the evaluation and effectiveness of the long-term corrective action plan related to the flight operations findings from the December 2019 PI. TC concluded that the long-term corrective actions taken by North Star Air were effective. |
AWA = Africa Wins Again
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If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door. |
Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11329186)
It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door. The main entry/exit airstair door of the 1900C could not be opened, not by the people inside and not by the first responders outside. Unanswered is why the overwing emergency exit on the LH side was not opened from outside by the first responders; or if they even tried or thought of the overwing hatch, that can be opened from the outside by pulling a flush mounted handle (the RH side of the 1900C was engulfed in fire). https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19961119-0 |
Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329140)
If indeed the flight deck door was locked
FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public. In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.). |
Originally Posted by avionimc
(Post 11329644)
Not sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.
FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public. In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.). I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been. |
Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
(Post 11329793)
I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.
I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been. Might I humbly suggest you bang the FTL drum to reduce deaths? |
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