|
Pilatus PC-12 down in Chamberlain, South Dakota, 9 dead.
https://apnews.com/0e07709d1a0a4d439c700f0fc0b4fc40 Pilatus PC-12 had 12 people on board when it crashed at about 12:30 p.m. Saturday, shortly after taking off from Chamberlain, about 140 miles (225.3 kilometers) west of Sioux Falls. |
LIFR at the time (which I had to look up - Low IFR - a confusing conflation of Rules and Conditions - ceiling <= 500’ and visibility <= 0.5 miles) https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0141ef8ca.jpeg Snowing, 1° and no Dew Point spread. Not a good day. |
A total of 12 souls on board. Not overly familiar with the PC-12 but I thought 11 was the max (incl cockpit). May have been an infant of course.
|
Originally Posted by Sobelena
(Post 10630179)
A total of 12 souls on board. Not overly familiar with the PC-12 but I thought 11 was the max (incl cockpit). May have been an infant of course.
|
Unless they had a commuter /high density the configuration the max on the PC-12 is Pilot+ Right Seat, 6 executive and 2 commuter seats, so 9 pax total.
|
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw
(Post 10630253)
Does a PC-12 have a dual cockpit?
|
All PC-12 variants are certificated for a maximum of 10 pax (including one in RHS) plus pilot. As the youngest on board was clearly not a babe-in-arms, that would suggest the pax limitation was exceeded. A/c was a 4740 kg PC-12/47E.
|
The conditions are nearly perfect for a failure in ground deicing. We shall see.
|
Last time I was in Chamberlain, deicing capabilities were nil, and hangar space was minimal... |
Had same storm here in Minneapolis, it was great snowman snow...not so great for light AC flying. Agree with other poster that there's probably not a proper FBO on the field -- it's just automated fuel. FlightAware shows it overnighting there, hopefully inside a hangar.
In METAR below, note UP precipitation code in period ending at 1515Z -- would likely be rain snow mix based on what I saw locally yesterday Code:
K9V9 301835Z AUTO 02006KT 1/2SM SN OVC005 01/01 A2930 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301815Z AUTO 02007KT 3/4SM -SN OVC005 01/01 A2930 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301755Z AUTO 02007KT 3/4SM -SN OVC005 01/01 A2930 RMK AO2 P0003 60006 T00080008 10010 20003Code:
K9V9 301735Z AUTO 03005KT 3/4SM -SN OVC005 01/01 A2931 RMK AO2 P0002 T00090009Code:
K9V9 301715Z AUTO 03005KT 1SM -SN OVC005 01/01 A2932 RMK AO2 P0001 T00090009Code:
K9V9 301655Z AUTO 04006KT 2SM -SN OVC005 01/01 A2933 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301635Z AUTO 06006KT 3SM BR OVC005 01/01 A2933 RMK AO2 T00090009Code:
K9V9 301615Z AUTO 06006KT 2SM UP OVC005 01/01 A2933 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301555Z AUTO 07006KT 1 3/4SM UP OVC005 01/01 A2933 RMK AO2 T00090009Code:
K9V9 301535Z AUTO 07007KT 1 3/4SM -DZ OVC005 01/01 A2933 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301515Z AUTO 07007KT 3SM UP OVC005 01/01 A2934 RMK AO2 T00080008Code:
K9V9 301455Z AUTO 07008KT 2SM UP OVC005 01/01 A2934 RMK AO2 60003 T00070007Code:
K9V9 301435Z AUTO 07007KT 2SM UP OVC005 01/01 A2935 RMK AO2 T00060006 |
Originally Posted by 421dog
(Post 10630353)
Last time I was in Chamberlain, deicing capabilities were nil, and hangar space was minimal... Also, there aren't a whole lot of accessible weather stations in the area, but, at around noon on Saturday, stations around the region were reporting winds (in MPH) from NNE at between 25-30, with gusts up to 40, inconsistent with the data posted above. Of course, inconsistency in weather stations is a fact of life, even when conditions are actually nearly identical. OTOH, out there on those plains, when it's windy in one place, it's probably windy in most others within a rather large distance. |
NWS weather history for Chamberlain, 9V9:
30 Nov 12:35 pm 33 33 100 NNE7 0.50 Mod SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 30 Nov 12:15 pm 33 33 100 NNE8 0.75 Lt SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 30 Nov 11:55 am 33 33 100 NNE8 0.75 Lt SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 Consistent with #2 above. |
Originally Posted by mikeh49
(Post 10630428)
NWS weather history for Chamberlain, 9V9:
30 Nov 12:35 pm 33 33 100 NNE7 0.50 Mod SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 30 Nov 12:15 pm 33 33 100 NNE8 0.75 Lt SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 30 Nov 11:55 am 33 33 100 NNE8 0.75 Lt SnowOVC00527.55994.629.30 Consistent with #2 above. Does anyone know if deicing is actually available at 9V9? |
Umm, as I sai above, when I was in there in a king air a few years ago, it was not. |
|
These kind of Part 91 accidents are all to common. The passengers were made up of a closely knit LDS family, as well as a successful business group. Sounds as if they had been on a bird hunting trip in the area as it is well known for that activity. Just because you can afford this kind of aircraft does not make you immune to this kind of accident.
There was another PC12 several years ago that crashed up near Butte, Montana. (?) Same thing as it had more pax than seats. Sounds as if this might be more common than one would think? |
Originally Posted by 421dog
(Post 10630519)
Umm, as I sai above, when I was in there in a king air a few years ago, it was not. |
Originally Posted by Spooky 2
(Post 10630527)
These kind of Part 91 accidents are all to common. The passengers were made up of a closely knit LDS family, as well as a successful business group. Sounds as if they had been on a bird hunting trip in the area as it is well known for that activity. Just because you can afford this kind of aircraft does not make you immune to this kind of accident.
There was another PC12 several years ago that crashed up near Butte, Montana. (?) Same thing as it had more pax than seats. Sounds as if this might be more common than one would think? I see, in the local story linked by BlankBox that "Maule Rossow [the state's attorney for the county] said at the time of the crash weather conditions included 'strong winds and snow.'” "Blizzard conditions" were reported around the area and Interstate 90 was closed for some time. |
Originally Posted by Spooky 2
(Post 10630527)
These kind of Part 91 accidents are all to common. The passengers were made up of a closely knit LDS family, as well as a successful business group. Sounds as if they had been on a bird hunting trip in the area as it is well known for that activity. Just because you can afford this kind of aircraft does not make you immune to this kind of accident.
There was another PC12 several years ago that crashed up near Butte, Montana. (?) Same thing as it had more pax than seats. Sounds as if this might be more common than one would think? |
Originally Posted by AviatorDave
(Post 10631121)
Anything known about the pilot‘s experience level? With that weather report and no de-icing available, I personally would rather go on foot.
It appears that the pilot was 48-yr-old Kirkland Rigby Hansen. Database shows medical current and: PILOT/PRIVATE - AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND PILOT/PRIVATE - AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND PILOT/PRIVATE - INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE |
Originally Posted by AviatorDave
(Post 10631121)
Anything known about the pilot‘s experience level? With that weather report and no de-icing available, I personally would rather go on foot.
Have not heard anything regarding the pilot other than he did not survive. Have a good friend that is flying a PC12 in the Idaho region and was impressed with the factory checkout including having a PC12 check airman fly with him for awhile, including short field, mountain type work. I think the airplne is pretty capable of handling icing conditions assuming it is operated accordingly. |
If I recall correctly the Montana accident several years ago was related to the lack of an anti-freezing agent in the fuel ? |
Originally Posted by JLWSanDiego
(Post 10631225)
If I recall correctly the Montana accident several years ago was related to the lack of an anti-freezing agent in the fuel ? That is a very capable airplane. I'd love to own one! 20driver |
at around noon on Saturday, stations around the region were reporting winds (in MPH) from NNE at between 25-30, with gusts up to 40, inconsistent with the data posted above. Since it was an AUTO METAR, is it possible that the anemometer was stuck? Is there any BITE equipment in an automated weather station? |
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...r20191202.aspx
Update on NTSB Investigation Into Fatal Crash of Pilatus PC-12 Airplane in South Dakota 12/2/2019 The National Transportation Safety Board released the following factual information Monday about the agency’s ongoing investigation into Saturday’s fatal crash of a Pilatus PC-12 airplane in Chamberlain, South Dakota. The crash occurred at about 12:30 p.m. CST shortly after departure from Chamberlain Municipal Airport. Nine of the 12 occupants of the airplane suffered fatal injuries in the crash. The three survivors were injured. The pilot and passengers arrived in Chamberlain on Friday, Nov. 29 at about 9:30 a.m. CST for an annual pheasant hunting trip. Shortly after arrival, the pilot purchased 150 gallons of Jet A fuel from an automated fuel pump. The airplane remained parked on the airport ramp until the accident flight on Nov. 30. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bf0a436e60.jpg NTSB (In this photo, taken Monday in Chamberlain, South Dakota, an NTSB air safety investigator begins the initial examination of the wreckage of the Pilatus PC-12 that crashed on Nov. 30, 2019, at 12:30 p.m. CT shortly after departure from Chamberlain Municipal Airport. NTSB Photo.) The pilot filed an instrument flight rules plan with the Federal Aviation Administration and received a clearance to fly direct from Chamberlain, a non-towered airport, to Idaho Falls, Idaho, with a planned departure time of 12:20 p.m. CST. The plane departed Chamberlain at 12:26 p.m. CST. When the pilot did not activate the flight plan after departure, the FAA issued an alert for a missing airplane. At 12:35 p.m. CST, an AWOS-3 automated weather observation station at the Chamberlain airport recorded weather as follows: winds from 020 degrees (north/northeast) at 6 knots (7 mph), ½ mile visibility with moderate snow and icing, low-level windshear, and clear air turbulence conditions with overcast skies. The base of the cloud layer was recorded at 500 feet above the ground. The airplane departed on runway 31 and crashed in a field about 1 mile north of the airport. The Pilatus PC-12 airplane is not required to be equipped with a cockpit voice recorder or a flight data recorder. Investigators will be looking for any avionics or engine monitoring equipment with non-volatile memory that could yield information relevant to the investigation. The airplane was equipped with an automated dependent surveillance broadcast system (ADS-B), which records parameters that will help investigators determine the performance of the airplane by evaluating the flight track, altitude and speed from takeoff to the end of the flight. Three NTSB investigators arrived at the accident site Monday afternoon after being delayed by inclement weather. Over the coming days they will work on documenting the airplane and wreckage pattern, examining its systems, flight controls, and engine. In addition, any witnesses to the crash will be interviewed. Interviews with the surviving passengers will also be requested. Investigators are expected to complete their work in Chamberlain by the weekend. A preliminary report, detailing the factual information developed at this early stage of the investigation, will be published in about two weeks. The entire investigation, which will result in a determination of probable cause and will list any contributing factors, is expected to be completed in 12-24 months. ### |
If you zoom the picture up it looks like ice on the leading edge of the prop blade and the leading edge of the horizontal tail.
|
Originally Posted by cappt
(Post 10631298)
If you zoom the picture up it looks like ice on the leading edge of the prop blade and the leading edge of the horizontal tail.
Of course, the reported conditions at time of departure were just excellent for icing, also. |
That one propeller blade shown on the investigator's right shows little damage and no chord-wise scratching or gouging. The other blades show spanwise deformation, but little or no chord-wise damage/marking. Was the engine producing power at impact?
Regards, Grog |
What I see in that picture (and feel free to critique):
- minimal leading edge damage to the prop blades, and the roots look feathered? Either engine problem (could include inlet icing), or intentionally stopped and feathered when pilot decided ground contact was inevitable? - engine/prop ejected from airframe a substantial distance (60-70ft/20m?) - bent blades from tumbling across ground? - left wing/flaps in middle-distance, cabin in background. - hummocks on ground fouled up a possibly-more-survivable forced landing? |
Was the wing clean on the ground before takeoff?
Did anybody get up on a ladder or platform to check the tail? The operator, West Wind Aviation, had some de-icing equipment in the terminal building (see photos) at the airport. The de-icing equipment that was available to WestWind Aviation in Fond-du-Lac consisted of two ladders, a hand-held spray bottle with electric blanket and wand, and a container of de-icing fluid. However, the aircraft was not de-iced before takeoff, and the takeoff was commenced with ice contamination on the aircraft. |
According to Pilatus, the PC-12 can have a 10+1 seating configuration.
https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/fly/pc-12 If it was the configuration of the accident airplane, it still means that an adult and the child of 7 were sharing a seat. |
...dunno if the intro pic is legit...
Kathryn's Report: Pilatus PC-12/47E, N56KJ: Fatal accident occurred November 30, 2019 near Chamberlain Municipal Airport (9V9), Brule County, South Dakota ...but if so that would'a been one hell of a load on a good day... |
Originally Posted by BlankBox
(Post 10631837)
...dunno if the intro pic is legit...
Kathryn's Report: Pilatus PC-12/47E, N56KJ: Fatal accident occurred November 30, 2019 near Chamberlain Municipal Airport (9V9), Brule County, South Dakota ...but if so that would'a been one hell of a load on a good day... |
I obviously have no idea of what happened but it would seem they were pushing the bounds in many aspects (weather, pax load). Doesn't bode well...
|
Overweight
Out of cg Ifr Icing conditions You could have started the accident report before they even took off. So very very sad. |
The reported events have me thinking of this Caravan hunter's flight accident years ago:
https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20040117-0 |
Originally Posted by Sikpilot
(Post 10632092)
Overweight
Out of cg Ifr Icing conditions You could have started the accident report before they even took off. So very very sad. I used to read the NTSB reports regularly and I would say that in 90% of the cases the plane should never have left the ground. |
On what basis are we assuming "Overweight" and "Out of CG?"
We know the pilot added about 1000 lbs (150 gallons) of fuel - but did that fill the tanks? Do we know the actual passenger weights (including minors, but also winter clothing)? Do we know who was seated where (CG)? What was the non-human payload (guns + remaining ammo + game taken)? Do we know the actual operating empty weight of this particular aircraft? |
Looking online max payload on a 47 is 3800 lbs more or less. Given how things creep on planes it wouldn't surprise me if it was at least 200 lbs less.
They took on 150 gallons and would have had at least 75 ? on board when they landed. So I suspect before anyone stepped on board they had maybe 2,200 lbs to play with, 2500 max. 12 people with winter clothes will use that up without bags, guns , ammo or loot. I have never done a W&B on the PC but I was told it has a good envelope. The NTSB will get a pretty good set of numbers on it but they must have been very close to max weight. 20driver |
Originally Posted by 20driver
(Post 10632550)
The NTSB will get a pretty good set of numbers on it but they must have been very close to max weight.
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 11:37. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.