B17 crash at Bradley
 

I understand there are multiple injuries following a vintage B17 crash at Bradley.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/n...ane-crash.html

I hope they're ok.

A bad business! Here's some background.

The Hartford Courant is not available to those of us on the European side of the Atlantic, apparently.

More here,
https://www.courant.com/breaking-new...diu-story.html

for those behind the UK Firewall, here is some of the text,

Toured the interior of that same plane last Spring at KFMY in Florida. These aircraft would give rides to paying passengers each afternoon and one could also buy a seat on the re-position flights to wherever the next stop on the tour was. So more likely than not, there were passengers aboard in addition to the flight crew. Very sad day.

If it is their B17 , the 9-0-9 , a video of the aircraft is here : Very sad for the casualties and for thge loss of this beautifully restored aircraft..

My condolences to the casualties. I toured the aircraft when it was on the west coast along with the B24, B25, and P40. Sad to see another one go.

N93012, a B-17G in this picture by Brian Lockett:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e739fd120c.jpg

BDL Tower switches N93012 to departure after takeoff. A short time later the plane reports entering downwind. They are cleared to land runway 6, wind calm. Tower asks 'How's your progress for runway 6?' Two voices on the B-17 reply 'We're getting there' and '[something] downwind now'.

I've attached an audio file of the tower transmissions from LiveATC.net to this post.

Here's the text from the Courant background article ...https://www.courant.com/resizer/w2H2...NXBSFG62KU.jpgThe B-24J, foreground, and B-17G were the four-engine heavy bombers American airmen flew against German industrial sites, rail yards and other targets in World War II. The bombers and three other historic airplanes owned by the Collings Foundation are scheduled to arrive at Bradley International Airport on Monday. (Collings Foundation)Two World War II fighter planes and three bombers will be at Bradley International Airport through Thursday.

The historic aircraft, owned by the Collings Foundation of Stow, Mass., will be open for tours through Thursday at Tac Air, 85-205 Combs Gate Drive, just off Route 75 in Windsor Locks. Flights aboard the aircraft are also available.

The aircraft are a B-17G Flying Fortress heavy bomber, a B-24J Liberator heavy bomber, a B-25 Mitchell medium bomber, a P-51 Mustang fighter and a P-40 Warhawk fighter.https://www.courant.com/resizer/ak2N...ZL6YXY2QKM.jpgPeople wait to board and view a B-17G bomber at Waterbury-Oxford Airport earlier this month.The airplanes will be open noon to 4 p.m. Monday, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Tuesday and Wednesday, and 9 a.m. to noon Thursday. The cost is $15. Flights are available. For details check the Collings Foundation website, www.collingsfoundation.org, or call 978-562-9182.


[Related] Hartford office tower owner Shelbourne Global Solutions adds to rapidly expanding holdings downtown with Allyn Street parking lot »The B-17 an B-24 were the backbone of the Allied bomber campaign against Nazi occupied Europe. Army Air Forces crews flew the bombers from bases in England and Italy. The bombers also were used the Pacific theater.

The two-engine B-25 was a land-based bomber, but became well-known when Army pilots flew the bombers off the pitching deck of the aircraft carrier Hornet to attack targets in and around Tokyo in 1942, months after the attack on Pearl Harbor thrust the U.S. into World War II. The raid, led by Col. Jimmy Doolittle, was was a morale booster for a beleaguered U.S. and was later made famous in the book and movie “Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo,” starring Spencer Tracy as Doolittle.https://www.courant.com/resizer/mzqY...GN26TDBNMQ.jpgHamilton Standard logo on a B-24 Liberator propeller blade.The P-40 was made famous by the Flying Tigers, American fighter pilots who fought for the Chinese against the Japanese. The airplane continued in service later into World War II.

Lt. Eugene Bradley, for whom Bradley airport is named, was flying a P-40 when he crashed on the airport grounds and was killed during a training mission in 1941.

The P-51 Mustang was the premier Army fighter of World War II and had the range to escort bombers deep into Europe for attacks on German cities and industrial centers. The Collings Foundation P-51 is painted to represent a West Virginia Air National Guard aircraft. The West Virginia Air Guard was the last Air Force squadron to fly P-51s and retired its Mustangs in January 1957.

David Owens can be reached at [email protected].

What a tragedy, for the crew, passengers and this beautiful aircraft..

What a sad day, especially for the injured or killed, and also for the aircraft.

I've been up in Nine-O-Nine twice. Got to sit in the left hand pilot seat for 10 minutes and make a couple of gentle turns in her. What an experience!

Local news reports now say that the number 3 engine (the right inboard engine) failed and there were 13 people onboard.

Just a tragedy and a disaster for the Collings Foundation. They rely on these flights to fund their efforts to keep these heritage aircraft alive. Their B-17 and the B-24 do a fall round down the East, hopping from airport to airport, offering short flights to give people a sense of the experience..
I've flown on that bird, The brief hop from Westchester Airport to Manhattan and back, it would be brutal in a crash because there are not really great safety features for such an event.
Afaik, it was one of the first flights of the day, so the aircraft may have had more fuel than usual on board, which would exacerbate any problems.
My condolences and RIP for the victims. I hope it does not also kill the Collings Foundation.

Would the outcome be any different?

R.I.P.

All I'm saying is things developed very fast IMHO. So aviate, navigate, communicate got stuck somewhere before communicate.

A friend's relative was a passenger on the plane. They haven't heard anything yet.

Just a "nutshell" distillation of the information currently available:

"On another subject, some bad news. This morning, around 1000 hr. lcl, the Collings Foundation B-17 crashed at Bradley Field Connecticut. I googoled "B-17 crash Connecticut" and got the bad news. It was a Collings Foundation B-17 with three crew and ten PAX on board, and there are reported fatalities as a result of the crash at BDL. An aerial photo shows the remains of the plane up against a ground storage tank (reportedly a de-icing facility) just outside of a hangar. Almost the entire fuselage appears to have been consumed by fire. Reportedly, the airplane encountered difficulties soon after takeoff and was trying to return to Bradley. What a shame."

Prayers for all involved.

Grog

Here's an excerpt of the LiveATC clip with the conversation and the post-accident approach cancellations. Number 4 engine (not number 3 as an eyewitness earlier reported) is indeed mentioned in the B-17 transmissions.

[,First, thanks to those who posted ATC links.

Great respect for the approach controller with 4 or 5 jet inbounds and a joyriding 'Stang all over the air. Solid, respectable job, though I can see why some EU pilots have fits over the informal tone sometimes used.

Finally, having enjoyed rides on comparable aircraft (17, 24, 25, 29, and others) I hope the NIMBY crowd which appeared after the Trimotor [type] crash in Switzerland, (many of whom I doubt could tell a cylinder from a frying pan) do not rise in opposition to the continuation of these incomparable displays of living history. Hard to describe why I need to blink repeatedly when I see those actual crew members from the 40s, gazing at or touching the aircraft which formed such a pivotal part of their lives.

So true. I wonder if that Mustang was also a part of the Collingsby Foundation group due to be there. From the Courant: "Two World War II fighter planes and three bombers will be at Bradley International Airport through Thursday.

The historic aircraft, owned by the Collings Foundation of Stow, Mass., will be open for tours through Thursday at Tac Air, 85-205 Combs Gate Drive, just off Route 75 in Windsor Locks. Flights aboard the aircraft are also available.

The aircraft are a B-17G Flying Fortress heavy bomber, a B-24J Liberator heavy bomber, a B-25 Mitchell medium bomber, a P-51 Mustang fighter and a P-40 Warhawk fighter."

Full article here: https://www.courant.com/news/connect...ygu-story.html

Perhaps. It's impossible to tell for sure, of course, but that isn't the point.
I was trained as a U.S. Navy Fighter Pilot and very early on I was told that when things so South, declare an emergency, stop asking permission, and start telling the controllers what you intend to do. You don't ask for permission to land, you TELL them you're landing. And you don't ask for a runway which will make their job easy, you TELL them what runway you are going to use and you start heading that direction without waiting for someone to say it's OK. You certainly should NOT ask them to accommodate your emergency "when you get a chance", especially if they aren't even aware you are involved in a potentially fatal emergency. In this case, the controller might have thought one of the passengers had to go to the bathroom or something, or that someone left their luggage behind. Why rush?

Let the tower worry about sorting out any traffic problems. Let them apologize for making things inconvenient for others. You job is to take care of your crippled aircraft and that's all you should be worried about. Saving seconds or minutes can make all the difference.

Even if you're not bold enough to take charge, at least tell the tower that you're having an emergency. Generally speaking, once the ground guys know you're in trouble, they will pull out all the stops to help you resolve the problem quickly and safely. But if they are unaware, how can they help?

My son-in-law (at Collins Aerospace, off to the side of the end of 06) says one of his co-workers was on the apron earlier in the day, and he said they were having engine problems with the B-17. I do not know if this person understands the usual handling of an R-1820, so apply sufficient salt.

Wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octobe...Fortress_crash

Plus one on the sad day.
I flew on that aircraft about ten years ago when it was in Everett - it was a priceless experience.
Finfly1, agree on the hope this doesn't stop or seriously discourage this sort of activity. When I took my joyride on Nine-O-Nine, I keep thinking what a shame it was that my WW II veteran dad wasn't alive to come along - he would have absolutely loved it. He wasn't a pilot, but he was quite familiar with the B-17 - when I was a kid we'd watch the TV series 'Twelve O'clock High' (based on the movie of the same name) and he was always talking about what a great aircraft the B-17 was.
On my ride, there was a father (roughly my age) with his teenage son. Before takeoff, his son appeared seriously bored - messing with his phone. But five minutes into the flight the kid was completely enthralled - started using his phone to video everything. Quite literally living history.

Let the Speculation Begin
 

Listening to the tower conversation with the B-17 (N90312CF), the pilot reported: " garbled ... number four engine. We'd like to return and blow it out". This sounds like there was a fire involved, but that should not have caused a control problem with the airplane unless the fire was well advanced. As to my speculation, well here goes. There may have been a massive oil leak in the No.4 engine resulting in rapid loss of engine oil pressure and ability to feather the propeller. The leaking oil may have caught fire. Inability to feather an outboard engine (in this case, no.4) would cause serious control problems. End of speculation.

Nine-O-Nine was a beautiful airplane, and its loss was a disaster. The loss of lives aboard was a tragedy. God bless.

Grog

My younger brother bucked rivets inside of that aircraft repairing damage that occurred after it went off the end of the runway at Beaver County Airport in 1987. Sad loss of life today. :(

Latest from Hartford Courant is 7 dead, 7 injured. A few years back a friend, Navy WWII veteran, UDT, had the opportunity to ride in a B-17, not sure if it was this one. He was so proud of having the opportunity. Hope this incident doesn't stop having these opportunities for veterans and the children, grandchildren of these veterans. Even though Jerry was a diver, the B-17 flight was something he talked about right to his last days.

God Bless All Involved
 

Here's another edit (not mine) from LiveATC.net including the tower and approach clips in the posts above along with the ground control conversation. This link will play on a phone or tablet. The .zip files I posted above seem to only work on a computer, .mp3 is not a valid extension for a PPRuNE attachment.

https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php...0;attach=10529

Mindful of all the psychology, I think, 'We're going in the Hudson' was perhaps one of the most memorable lines ever transmitted, not least of all because it left the ATC guy in one of those bewildered states that was not helping anybody.

cpngrog.
The blowing out statement suggests to me that they may have had fouled plugs on the engine.
That would also explain why they didn't declare an emergency.

On the Connie for one example, fouled/non firing plugs are an engine shutdown condition.
Wunwing

A B-17 can fly just fine on three engines (and even with 13 people, they would not have been 'heavy' since there are no guns or bombs), so clearly there must be more to it than a simple engine failure.
I briefly talked with the pilots when I took my ride - they were unpaid volunteers - commercial airline pilots that flew the Collings aircraft just for the joy of it.
So sad...